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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#31 Posted : Saturday, March 30, 2013 7:04:54 PM(UTC)
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Honestly the Pats.. They aren't the GREATEST team on paper. Yet, they're always in contention every stinkin' year. It has to do with coaching, training, and getting good players on your team. And you know what I mean by good players. Having those great character guys on your team. Why do you think the good teams are always the ones that stay quiet? Patriots, Giants, Packers, Steelers all to name a few. The lions, cowboys, and jets to name a few fail every year for this feat.
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DoddPower on 3/31/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#32 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 4:31:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
Honestly the Pats.. They aren't the GREATEST team on paper. Yet, they're always in contention every stinkin' year. It has to do with coaching, training, and getting good players on your team. And you know what I mean by good players. Having those great character guys on your team. Why do you think the good teams are always the ones that stay quiet? Patriots, Giants, Packers, Steelers all to name a few. The lions, cowboys, and jets to name a few fail every year for this feat.


I agree with you, but I think this is missing the point.

There are those teams that often make their splashes in winning the March SBs. Teams that continually load up in free agency, and time and time again make the same mistakes.

What I am talking about is being so rigid in the opposite direction that you miss out on possibly landing a role player that unexpectedly takes your team over the top. There is a patience to that game as well, as I believe there are few teams that have notched that special player onto their rosters and gone on to immediately win the SB.

We've done it twice and won SBs. 1996 signing of Eugene Robinson, an 11 yr vet with the Seahawks, and the 2010 signing of Howard Green, and 8 yr vet from the Jets.

Both players filled a need area on the roster, and both made significant contributions towards winning the Super Bowl.
Offline DoddPower  
#33 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 3:35:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I agree with you, but I think this is missing the point.

There are those teams that often make their splashes in winning the March SBs. Teams that continually load up in free agency, and time and time again make the same mistakes.

What I am talking about is being so rigid in the opposite direction that you miss out on possibly landing a role player that unexpectedly takes your team over the top. There is a patience to that game as well, as I believe there are few teams that have notched that special player onto their rosters and gone on to immediately win the SB.

We've done it twice and won SBs. 1996 signing of Eugene Robinson, an 11 yr vet with the Seahawks, and the 2010 signing of Howard Green, and 8 yr vet from the Jets.

Both players filled a need area on the roster, and both made significant contributions towards winning the Super Bowl.


This statement seems to imply that Ted Thompson is too rigid to make additions, but I don't think that's the case, at all. He is always looking at, speaking to, and investigating free agents, it's just the stars don't always align, for whatever reason. I'm sure he can make the stars align more often, but he's likely following an agreed upon budget and if negotiations get outside of that budget, the Packers are out of the game.

Offline texaspackerbacker  
#34 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 5:16:43 PM(UTC)
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I go all the way back to the Lombardi era and before, and I remember when a lot of people were saying we COULDN'T afford Grabowski and Anderson. Vince managed to snag them - both. Never mind the fact that neither turned out to be the superstar we hoped. Thompson has his way of doing things. I certainly don't agree with it all the time, but we can't really argue with the results in terms of a winning record. The point is, if the prize is great enough, he can and will get it for the Packers.
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Offline dfosterf  
#35 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 5:29:30 PM(UTC)
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You fill your team with the best player available.

Blanket philosophies are foolish, imo. You do not weigh your success in free agency based on the whole league, for example.

I think we had a far better shot at a Super Bowl if Ted filled a few holes for us that he did not do. He strikes me as somewhat of a moron when he speaks. I know he's educated, etc. I do not see the brilliance... just sayin'... If he is so good at drafting, how could he not be better at picking some players that have played in the league?

We are satisfied as a fan base, we are in a small market, he gets good press, we shall fucking schlep along wading high just above- mediocrity, but below greatness, unless luck intervenes.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#36 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 6:01:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
You fill your team with the best player available.

Blanket philosophies are foolish, imo. You do not weigh your success in free agency based on the whole league, for example.

I think we had a far better shot at a Super Bowl if Ted filled a few holes for us that he did not do. He strikes me as somewhat of a moron when he speaks. I know he's educated, etc. I do not see the brilliance... just sayin'... If he is so good at drafting, how could he not be better at picking some players that have played in the league?

We are satisfied as a fan base, we are in a small market, he gets good press, we shall fucking schlep along wading high just above- mediocrity, but below greatness, unless luck intervenes.


hahaha I suggested that "luck intervened" in PackerFanForum in Thompson getting Aaron Rodgers - saying Thompson was good but not a great GM. The TT-ophiles jumped all over me. I agree with you in principal about filling those few holes, etc., but on a case by case basis, I can't really think of any that I wish Thompson had paid what it would have taken to get the player. And yeah, he sure ain't charismatic or even quietly intelligent-sounding...... but we sure do have that great winning record hahaha.
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Offline dfosterf  
#37 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 6:01:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
You fill your team with the best player available.

Blanket philosophies are foolish, imo. You do not weigh your success in free agency based on the whole league, for example.

I think we had a far better shot at a Super Bowl if Ted filled a few holes for us that he did not do. He strikes me as somewhat of a moron when he speaks. I know he's educated, etc. I do not see the brilliance... just sayin'... If he is so good at drafting, how could he not be better at picking some players that have played in the league?

We are satisfied as a fan base, we are in a small market, he gets good press, we shall fucking schlep along wading high just above- mediocrity, but below greatness, unless luck intervenes.


Of course it hurts us, we are just loyal. Loyal is different from correct.



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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline dfosterf  
#38 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 6:05:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
hahaha I suggested that "luck intervened" in PackerFanForum in Thompson getting Aaron Rodgers - saying Thompson was good but not a great GM. The TT-ophiles jumped all over me. I agree with you in principal about filling those few holes, etc., but on a case by case basis, I can't really think of any that I wish Thompson had paid what it would have taken to get the player. And yeah, he sure ain't charismatic or even quietly intelligent-sounding...... but we sure do have that great winning record hahaha.


...Just so you know, I've defended him here at least on par with anyone on this forum, lol

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Offline play2win  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 6:01:19 AM(UTC)
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Winning records mean about as much to me as Top Passers.

I want Championships from this group. Ted has done a great job getting us to this point where we remain competitive, but I believe more could be done to add veteran help at a position of need. He's got many of the hard to get pieces in place. Why not go for it a little bit more?

DL was a void spot after losing Jenkins, with no significant improvements added in going on 3 seasons. Had we retained Jenkins, or added a true replacement, I think we would have run that 2011 table, and possibly been more competitive in 2012.

Leaving holes as important as that on your roster with this collection of talent seems a waste, and an unnecessary risk.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#40 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 12:14:28 PM(UTC)
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But you make it sound like Ted Thompson has ignored the position. In the last 3 drafts, he has drafted 5 DL, tied for most of any position with OL. Ted Thompson can't totally control how they develop. He can't control Mike Neal's injuries. He isn't at fault for Worthy's knee blowing out. Did you know in Feb 2011, that Mike Neal wasn't going to develop into an adequate replacement for Jenkins? I didn't. I bet the private depth chart at Lambeau Field was counting on it.

He has signed FA. They just didn't work.

You can criticize the results, but not the effort. Ted Thompson has attempted to address the issue the best he thinks he can. We have the luxury of criticizing the results, but we are not the ones that have to make decisions.

Going after high priced FAs is like the boy that asked Kate Upton to prom. It gets a lot of press. Somebody is famous for a bit. But at the end of the night, he is disappointed and unfulfilled.
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Offline play2win  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 1:05:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
But you make it sound like Ted Thompson has ignored the position. In the last 3 drafts, he has drafted 5 DL, tied for most of any position with OL. Ted Thompson can't totally control how they develop. He can't control Mike Neal's injuries. He isn't at fault for Worthy's knee blowing out. Did you know in Feb 2011, that Mike Neal wasn't going to develop into an adequate replacement for Jenkins? I didn't. I bet the private depth chart at Lambeau Field was counting on it.

He has signed FA. They just didn't work.

You can criticize the results, but not the effort. Ted Thompson has attempted to address the issue the best he thinks he can. We have the luxury of criticizing the results, but we are not the ones that have to make decisions.

Going after high priced FAs is like the boy that asked Kate Upton to prom. It gets a lot of press. Somebody is famous for a bit. But at the end of the night, he is disappointed and unfulfilled.


Well, in the 2011 draft, Ted waited until his 8th selection before addressing DL. I'm sorry, that doesn't sit well with me, after letting your top pass rusher walk, with no viable replacement added via FA.

How is it that everyone on this board understands the importance of a pass rush to your secondary and your defense, but our own GM fails to insure, -insure - the need is addressed?

When you discard FA as an option, and I mean, the top talents in FA, not 3rd and 4th tier that barely make a roster, you count on hitting with all of your draft picks. Even to me this seems foolhardy. No one hits on all their picks. You don't have to dive into FA like some teams do, but you can certainly add a top veteran talent at a position of need to in effect, insure the position is addressed.

Great, Ted hit D with his first 6 picks last year. He'll damn near have to do the same again, and hope these players can contribute on the level we need them to if we are to improve defensively.

I will add, then where does that leave us on our offensive needs? I just don't like the approach.

Meanwhile, off goes NT Alan Branch to BUF for $3M on a 1 yr deal. We could have added Steven Jackson at RB, and still saved money, rather than keeping Finley on the roster, as a decoy... for God's sake!

I've heard enough crap about SJax being too old, but ATL knows he will punish defenses. Fucking punish them. That is exactly what we need!

BTW, your prom quote doesn't apply with such a broad brush. Reggie White. Charles Woodson. Ryan Pickett. Sean Jones. Santana Dotson. Andre Rison.

Name one prominent FA Ted has signed that did not work out. A Free Agent at his peak or near peak in his career. The only ones that qualify are Woodson and Pickett, and both were high priced in their markets.

Edited by user Tuesday, April 2, 2013 1:18:44 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#42 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 1:54:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Well, in the 2011 draft, Ted waited until his 8th selection before addressing DL. I'm sorry, that doesn't sit well with me, after letting your top pass rusher walk, with no viable replacement added via FA.


The 2010 defense didn't drop production when Jenkins was out, and he was only back in limited usage during the playoffs and Superbowl. That defense didnt' have big holes to fill. We already had Neal who was to be Jenkins replacement.

He addressed the teams biggest need which was Tackle, also addressing the running, receiving, dline and DB.
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Offline play2win  
#43 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 2:38:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
The 2010 defense didn't drop production when Jenkins was out, and he was only back in limited usage during the playoffs and Superbowl. That defense didnt' have big holes to fill. We already had Neal who was to be Jenkins replacement.

He addressed the teams biggest need which was Tackle, also addressing the running, receiving, dline and DB.


That's where we may be differing a bit. I do not see an unproven rookie who winds up injured during is 2nd game played and thrown on IR as any kind of insurance for the following year. Speaking of which, Neal played in only 7 games in 2011 with ZERO sacks and 1 whole tackle.

I don't think Nick Perry is worthy of being counted on to hold up at OLB opposite Matthews either. We need a proper backup, and backup plan.

If Perry does return well from injury and proves his talents on our D, great. Same with Neal.

I'm still waiting... I mean, c'mon!!!!! Neal had 11 Tackles in 11 games last year? Wow... No wonder we sucked so bad in run D...
Offline Pack93z  
#44 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 2:41:22 PM(UTC)
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Yes history tells us Ted isn't going to pry open the checkbook wide open any offseason.. but he has shown more than once that he will go out and try to fill holes.. he just chooses to address his own first, then go through the draft process.. then start to evaluate what is left to fill. I can only remember Pickett being signed very early in the Free Agent period for market value.

Jeff Saturday was an attempt last season at filling a void in Free agency for a sizable sum.. it didn't work. Cedric Benson was another gamble, one that looked very promising prior to an injury.

He has been in chases for players in the past and this season in Steven Jackson... but I firmly think he places a premium to adhering to a value ratio that he deems fit. Some of that is cap related.. some of that is probably team unity related in keeping the pay scales in check.. and some of that is just adhering to a value structure.

Each year I see a handful of players that I would love to suit up for "my team".. at times they are the headliners.. and at times, they are role players or developing players. Most of the time.. I watch as they are signed and think.. I think that is too much for them. Not always.. but most times they are overpaid. And I am just a schmuck that watches football and has just about as much interest in the business side as in the pro on the field side.. I am sure guys like Ted with more information available to them view things similar... they would love to add certain players, but all things have to jive for it to happen.. one of those being the players wanting to come here.

Edited by user Tuesday, April 2, 2013 2:56:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#45 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 8:17:57 AM(UTC)
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Let's look at another downside of signing a FA. You get older in 2 ways. If Ted Thompson signed SJax, who gets cut? Green, Harris or Starks? Because one of them goes. Starks has starter talent allegedly. Green is still recovering allegedly. Harris (FA pickup) is intriguing. So not only is your starter old, but you have to cut a young, developing (hopefully) back. And you can't use a draft pick. So in a year or 2, when SJax is in a wheelchair (But still costing $), you have to replace him. But you have reduced options because now all of your backs are in the 4+ years of experience and most backs don't last past that mark.

So while many of us are not excited about our RB's, if we had signed Jackson, in 2 years, we might be sitting here with no viable RB. At least now, we have potential in some bodies. But I'm an optimist.
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