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Offline play2win  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 1:05:23 PM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
But you make it sound like Ted Thompson has ignored the position. In the last 3 drafts, he has drafted 5 DL, tied for most of any position with OL. Ted Thompson can't totally control how they develop. He can't control Mike Neal's injuries. He isn't at fault for Worthy's knee blowing out. Did you know in Feb 2011, that Mike Neal wasn't going to develop into an adequate replacement for Jenkins? I didn't. I bet the private depth chart at Lambeau Field was counting on it.

He has signed FA. They just didn't work.

You can criticize the results, but not the effort. Ted Thompson has attempted to address the issue the best he thinks he can. We have the luxury of criticizing the results, but we are not the ones that have to make decisions.

Going after high priced FAs is like the boy that asked Kate Upton to prom. It gets a lot of press. Somebody is famous for a bit. But at the end of the night, he is disappointed and unfulfilled.


Well, in the 2011 draft, Ted waited until his 8th selection before addressing DL. I'm sorry, that doesn't sit well with me, after letting your top pass rusher walk, with no viable replacement added via FA.

How is it that everyone on this board understands the importance of a pass rush to your secondary and your defense, but our own GM fails to insure, -insure - the need is addressed?

When you discard FA as an option, and I mean, the top talents in FA, not 3rd and 4th tier that barely make a roster, you count on hitting with all of your draft picks. Even to me this seems foolhardy. No one hits on all their picks. You don't have to dive into FA like some teams do, but you can certainly add a top veteran talent at a position of need to in effect, insure the position is addressed.

Great, Ted hit D with his first 6 picks last year. He'll damn near have to do the same again, and hope these players can contribute on the level we need them to if we are to improve defensively.

I will add, then where does that leave us on our offensive needs? I just don't like the approach.

Meanwhile, off goes NT Alan Branch to BUF for $3M on a 1 yr deal. We could have added Steven Jackson at RB, and still saved money, rather than keeping Finley on the roster, as a decoy... for God's sake!

I've heard enough crap about SJax being too old, but ATL knows he will punish defenses. Fucking punish them. That is exactly what we need!

BTW, your prom quote doesn't apply with such a broad brush. Reggie White. Charles Woodson. Ryan Pickett. Sean Jones. Santana Dotson. Andre Rison.

Name one prominent FA Ted has signed that did not work out. A Free Agent at his peak or near peak in his career. The only ones that qualify are Woodson and Pickett, and both were high priced in their markets.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#42 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 1:54:35 PM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Well, in the 2011 draft, Ted waited until his 8th selection before addressing DL. I'm sorry, that doesn't sit well with me, after letting your top pass rusher walk, with no viable replacement added via FA.


The 2010 defense didn't drop production when Jenkins was out, and he was only back in limited usage during the playoffs and Superbowl. That defense didnt' have big holes to fill. We already had Neal who was to be Jenkins replacement.

He addressed the teams biggest need which was Tackle, also addressing the running, receiving, dline and DB.
Offline play2win  
#43 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 2:38:51 PM(UTC)
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PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
The 2010 defense didn't drop production when Jenkins was out, and he was only back in limited usage during the playoffs and Superbowl. That defense didnt' have big holes to fill. We already had Neal who was to be Jenkins replacement.

He addressed the teams biggest need which was Tackle, also addressing the running, receiving, dline and DB.


That's where we may be differing a bit. I do not see an unproven rookie who winds up injured during is 2nd game played and thrown on IR as any kind of insurance for the following year. Speaking of which, Neal played in only 7 games in 2011 with ZERO sacks and 1 whole tackle.

I don't think Nick Perry is worthy of being counted on to hold up at OLB opposite Matthews either. We need a proper backup, and backup plan.

If Perry does return well from injury and proves his talents on our D, great. Same with Neal.

I'm still waiting... I mean, c'mon!!!!! Neal had 11 Tackles in 11 games last year? Wow... No wonder we sucked so bad in run D...
Offline Pack93z  
#44 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 2:41:22 PM(UTC)
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Yes history tells us Ted isn't going to pry open the checkbook wide open any offseason.. but he has shown more than once that he will go out and try to fill holes.. he just chooses to address his own first, then go through the draft process.. then start to evaluate what is left to fill. I can only remember Pickett being signed very early in the Free Agent period for market value.

Jeff Saturday was an attempt last season at filling a void in Free agency for a sizable sum.. it didn't work. Cedric Benson was another gamble, one that looked very promising prior to an injury.

He has been in chases for players in the past and this season in Steven Jackson... but I firmly think he places a premium to adhering to a value ratio that he deems fit. Some of that is cap related.. some of that is probably team unity related in keeping the pay scales in check.. and some of that is just adhering to a value structure.

Each year I see a handful of players that I would love to suit up for "my team".. at times they are the headliners.. and at times, they are role players or developing players. Most of the time.. I watch as they are signed and think.. I think that is too much for them. Not always.. but most times they are overpaid. And I am just a schmuck that watches football and has just about as much interest in the business side as in the pro on the field side.. I am sure guys like Ted with more information available to them view things similar... they would love to add certain players, but all things have to jive for it to happen.. one of those being the players wanting to come here.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#45 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 8:17:57 AM(UTC)
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Let's look at another downside of signing a FA. You get older in 2 ways. If Ted Thompson signed SJax, who gets cut? Green, Harris or Starks? Because one of them goes. Starks has starter talent allegedly. Green is still recovering allegedly. Harris (FA pickup) is intriguing. So not only is your starter old, but you have to cut a young, developing (hopefully) back. And you can't use a draft pick. So in a year or 2, when SJax is in a wheelchair (But still costing $), you have to replace him. But you have reduced options because now all of your backs are in the 4+ years of experience and most backs don't last past that mark.

So while many of us are not excited about our RB's, if we had signed Jackson, in 2 years, we might be sitting here with no viable RB. At least now, we have potential in some bodies. But I'm an optimist.
Offline Rockmolder  
#46 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 8:45:44 AM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
Let's look at another downside of signing a FA. You get older in 2 ways. If Ted Thompson signed SJax, who gets cut? Green, Harris or Starks? Because one of them goes. Starks has starter talent allegedly. Green is still recovering allegedly. Harris (FA pickup) is intriguing. So not only is your starter old, but you have to cut a young, developing (hopefully) back. And you can't use a draft pick. So in a year or 2, when SJax is in a wheelchair (But still costing $), you have to replace him. But you have reduced options because now all of your backs are in the 4+ years of experience and most backs don't last past that mark.

So while many of us are not excited about our RB's, if we had signed Jackson, in 2 years, we might be sitting here with no viable RB. At least now, we have potential in some bodies. But I'm an optimist.


Sounds a little far fetched.

You cut just one of those running backs... The one with the least potential in your eyes. I figure it would've been Starks, because he's always injured, or Green, because he plays like Barry Sanders with Noah Herron talent.

That still leaves you with two guys on the roster, with the bright spot and change of pace back obviously being Harris at this point.

I'd go as far as saying that, had we signed Jackson, I would've held on Harris and let go of the rest, fill that up with a draft pick.

Lastly, when you start signing on talent and future potential alone, our WR roster would exist of Cobb, Ross, Boykin, Borel and Gurley.

Between that and our current group, I think I know who I'd rather have.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#47 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 8:56:45 AM(UTC)
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The 49ers lost in 2011 NFC Championship game to Giants. They brought in 3 high profile FA. Was it Randy Moss, Brandon Jacobs or Mario Manningham that made the impact that got them to the Super Bowl?

Oh wait. They all were underachievers. Manningham only played in 12 games, starting just 10. Jacobs and Moss are already gone. Wow. Jacobs cost $1.5 million and had about 5 carries for 7 yards. Missed most of the year with injuries and attitude. Moss was $2.5 million for 28 catches and 3 TD's.

A year later and the 49ers are having to replace those players as well as the normal attrition.

Offline Rockmolder  
#48 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 9:09:04 AM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
The 49ers lost in 2011 NFC Championship game to Giants. They brought in 3 high profile FA. Was it Randy Moss, Brandon Jacobs or Mario Manningham that made the impact that got them to the Super Bowl?

Oh wait. They all were underachievers. Manningham only played in 12 games, starting just 10. Jacobs and Moss are already gone. Wow. Jacobs cost $1.5 million and had about 5 carries for 7 yards. Missed most of the year with injuries and attitude. Moss was $2.5 million for 28 catches and 3 TD's.

A year later and the 49ers are having to replace those players as well as the normal attrition.



First of all, those weren't big signings. All of them were one year prove it deals with not that much money tied upto them, with the exception of Manningham, who put up 450 yards before wrecking his knee. Not great, but not a big blow at $7,3 million over two years.

Second of all, that doesn't prove your point as much as it proves that they were bad signings in hindsight.

Did Woodson, going towards his 30s when he signed with us hinder us in developping other corners? On the contrary. And he became the league DMVP and mentored guys like Williams and Shields.

You don't waste age by having a veteran play in a starter spot, you waste it by having a guy like Driver on the roster as your number five guy. You pump talent in from the bottom, you don't force them into starting spots in the hope that they'll be any good.

Offline QCHuskerFan  
#49 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 9:28:30 AM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
That's where we may be differing a bit. I do not see an unproven rookie who winds up injured during is 2nd game played and thrown on IR as any kind of insurance for the following year. Speaking of which, Neal played in only 7 games in 2011 with ZERO sacks and 1 whole tackle.

I don't think Nick Perry is worthy of being counted on to hold up at OLB opposite Matthews either. We need a proper backup, and backup plan.

If Perry does return well from injury and proves his talents on our D, great. Same with Neal.

I'm still waiting... I mean, c'mon!!!!! Neal had 11 Tackles in 11 games last year? Wow... No wonder we sucked so bad in run D...


I am not arguing that Neal has worked. But he was the plan to replace Jenkins. Just because a plan doesn't work, doesn't mean it didn't exist and that it wasn't well thought out.

The Packers are not the Univ of Alabama. They don't have the luxury of 125 players on their roster. It is not possible to have high quality, starter ready backups at every position. Nobody does. The team has 42 real players on game day. They have to believe in Perry returning and excelling because they can't afford to spend big money on a backup to a #1 draft pick. Erik Walden got 8M guaranteed from the Colts! He was a backup that nobody on here wanted. Packers have to believe in Moses improving as their plan for Perry's replacement. That and a draft pick in 2013 and a UDFA.

I've already stated this winter that there is no worse situation, in my opinion, on our roster than backup QB. The gap between Aaron Rodgers and #2 makes the Grand Canyon look small. The consensus of this forum was "Oh well", "Harrell has improved", and "MM knows best". I am a lot more confident in the Packers plan to replace Perry than AR. But they can't have Tom Brady/ Drew Brees/ Manning on the bench for 'What if' purposes.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#50 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 9:32:45 AM(UTC)
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Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
Sounds a little far fetched.

You cut just one of those running backs... The one with the least potential in your eyes. I figure it would've been Starks, because he's always injured, or Green, because he plays like Barry Sanders with Noah Herron talent.

That still leaves you with two guys on the roster, with the bright spot and change of pace back obviously being Harris at this point.

I'd go as far as saying that, had we signed Jackson, I would've held on Harris and let go of the rest, fill that up with a draft pick.

Lastly, when you start signing on talent and future potential alone, our WR roster would exist of Cobb, Ross, Boykin, Borel and Gurley.

Between that and our current group, I think I know who I'd rather have.


Cut Starks. What if Jackson gets hurt, Green proves not able to return from injury and Harris shows why 30 teams allowed him to sell cars for a living last fall? Now you have absolutely nothing and you have money tied up. That is not that far fetched a scenario.

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