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Offline Pack93z  
#26 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 9:16:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Pssh, I can still sling it 50+ with ease my friend... with ease!


Anyone can sling it 50... but accurately. Wanna Box?
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Wade  
#27 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 9:24:46 AM(UTC)
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5 = 500% of 1.

That is a big gap to make up.

Until Rodgers get at least three, I'm not going to put him in the same category.

In terms of statistics, physical tools, Rodgers is ahead by a landslide. If we want to exaggerate, even 500% as big.

But if I'm going to weight things, I give championships a weight of 0.9 and statistics/tools a combined weight of 0.1.

Therefore:

Starr = (0.9 x 5) + (0.1 x 1) = 0.65 min.
Rodgers = (0.9 x 1) + (0.1 x 5) = 0.59 max.

Starr.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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Offline yooperfan  
#28 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 9:26:44 AM(UTC)
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Starr didn't audible out of running plays to pad his stats. Therefore he is the better QB.
OHOH!Weeeee!!
thanks Post received 2 applause.
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Offline Pack93z  
#29 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 10:18:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
Starr didn't audible out of running plays to pad his stats. Therefore he is the better QB.
OHOH!Weeeee!!


Ahhh.. feeding the stat mongering viewpoint posters.. these could become fun.. Big Grin
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline play2win  
#30 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 10:47:44 AM(UTC)
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I believe the consensus here is that Rodgers is the better QB from a talent and ability level, and as good as Starr was, his talents are/were not those possessed by Rodgers.

Starr has more Championships attached to his name. I want Championships in Green Bay. Period.

This is a good time to recognize how good Rodgers is, and what is needed to put him into the Starr category for Championships: a running game, a HC who will call a running game, and a solid D.
Offline nerdmann  
#31 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 10:59:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Regarding those Championshps ... Bart Starr had how many Hall of Famers on his team? How many does Aaron Rodgers have? Yep, Rodgers doing more with less. Also, Starr's coach was so legendary that the named the Super Bowl trophy after him.

Here's a stat that has no relevance with games played in a season ...
Starr 80.5 qb rating
Rodgers 104.9 qb rating




Starr had exactly ZERO HoFers on his team.

Those men EARNED those honors through their play. They weren't anointed on draft day. Besides, the Hall didn't exist at the time did it?

Anyway, Aaron may very well be playing with future HoFers, we just don't know. Woody for example.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline wpr  
#32 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 11:07:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Using the multiquote feature to bust ya all down ... wassup.


Chucking pigskin... anyone can do that. Failing to hit the broad side of a barn or consistently throw a spiral ...




Bart Starr had a superior cast around him with a legendary coach at the helm, of course he is going to be mis-perceived as the best. We gonna say Terry Bradshaw is better than Aaron Rodgers because 4 > 1? Or that Trent Dilfer is equal to Aaron Rodgers because 1 = 1?



you can have the qb throws the ball pretty and who does what is he told without having to think for himself. If pretty throws were the whole measure then no one would credit Favre at all. His duck snorts, left handed and underhanded passes won games. FACT!

I will give the laurels to the guy with real leaderships skills and proven success.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#33 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 11:11:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Starr had exactly ZERO HoFers on his team.

Those men EARNED those honors through their play. They weren't anointed on draft day. Besides, the Hall didn't exist at the time did it?

Anyway, Aaron may very well be playing with future HoFers, we just don't know. Woody for example.


It's dense comments like this that make it hard to hold a good debate. Look, everyone knows that while playing you cannot be in the hall of fame. The point being made was look back at how many are in the hall of fame that he played with. Do that. Count them up.


I can't believe how some folks fail to be objective about this. It's not a slight on Bart Starr, he was magnificent, but he played on a dominant team. Aaron Rodgers is the better quarterback. This dumb comment about Starr had more rings ... you're saying that Rodgers is equally good as Jeff Hostetler or isn't even as good as Terry Bradshaw. Give me a break people! Show your objectivity!

Bring something to the discussion other than your bias! No room for bias here, this isn't Barry Sanders we're talkin 'bout!!
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline wpr  
#34 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 11:15:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
It's dense comments like this that make it hard to hold a good debate. Look, everyone knows that while playing you cannot be in the hall of fame. The point being made was look back at how many are in the hall of fame that he played with. Do that. Count them up.


I can't believe how some folks fail to be objective about this. It's not a slight on Bart Starr, he was magnificent, but he played on a dominant team. Aaron Rodgers is the better quarterback. This dumb comment about Starr had more rings ... you're saying that Rodgers is equally good as Jeff Hostetler or isn't even as good as Terry Bradshaw. Give me a break people! Show your objectivity!

Bring something to the discussion other than your bias! No room for bias here, this isn't Barry Sanders we're talkin 'bout!!


no bias? ok look at this one-

Bart is in The Hall. FACT.
Aaron is not. if he quit today and walked away he would never be in The Hall. FACT!
BART> Aaron Rodgers
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#35 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 11:20:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
no bias? ok look at this one-

Bart is in The Hall. FACT.
Aaron is not. if he quit today and walked away he would never be in The Hall. FACT!
BART> Aaron Rodgers


No argument there, but the same could be said about Bart Starr if you cut his career short too.


Next ...
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline wpr  
#36 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 11:26:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
No argument there, but the same could be said about Bart Starr if you cut his career short too.


Next ...


so then you agree the young man still has a ways to go to prove himself.
then he is not greater than an existing HoFer.
Thank you. Applause

BOOM!!! You children can't keep up with us old codgers. Laughing
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#37 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 11:28:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
so then you agree the young man still has a ways to go to prove himself.
then he is not greater than an existing HoFer.
Thank you. Applause


Similar points in their career, Aaron Rodgers is ahead of Bart Starr as a quarterback, no question. Bart Starr played for 15 years and had a legendary team with a legendary coach. His statistics as a quarterback are not why he's in the Hall of Fame. He's in the Hall because of his exceptional leadership skills, not his quarterback skills.

Next ...
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline wpr  
#38 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 11:30:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Similar points in their career, Aaron Rodgers is ahead of Bart Starr as a quarterback, no question. Bart Starr played for 15 years and had a legendary team with a legendary coach. His statistics as a quarterback are not why he's in the Hall of Fame. He's in the Hall because of his exceptional leadership skills, not his quarterback skills.

Next ...


you never asked who can throw the ball better. You asked who was the better QB.
The QB is the leader of the team. Ergo Bart is the better QB not the better passer.

Once again you are shot down by your own words. FACT.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#39 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 11:35:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
you never asked who can throw the ball better. You asked who was the better QB.
The QB is the leader of the team. Ergo Bart is the better QB not the better passer.

Once again you are shot down by your own words. FACT.


You have nothing going for ya there young man. Why don't you start saying five rings to one ring again. At least that was funny. :)
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline wpr  
#40 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 11:45:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
You have nothing going for ya there young man. Why don't you start saying five rings to one ring again. At least that was funny. :)


Listen skippy, there are no qbs who were 5 time champions that were mediocre qbs. Bart succeeded beyond all measure. He lead those teams to victory. He called the plays. He changed the legendary HC's call on his own and succeeded. He is what Rodgers hopes to be SOMEDAY. A real winner.

This whole discussion is like talking about pitchers. Some guy who throws 125 mph is not a better pitcher than the guy who knows how to pitch and simply wins time in and time out.it may look pretty but I want results. I could care less if some guy threw wobbly passes with his left foot. If he wins. If he leads his team to victory that is the acid test.
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Offline nerdmann  
#41 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 12:55:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
It's dense comments like this that make it hard to hold a good debate. Look, everyone knows that while playing you cannot be in the hall of fame. The point being made was look back at how many are in the hall of fame that he played with. Do that. Count them up.


I can't believe how some folks fail to be objective about this. It's not a slight on Bart Starr, he was magnificent, but he played on a dominant team. Aaron Rodgers is the better quarterback. This dumb comment about Starr had more rings ... you're saying that Rodgers is equally good as Jeff Hostetler or isn't even as good as Terry Bradshaw. Give me a break people! Show your objectivity!

Bring something to the discussion other than your bias! No room for bias here, this isn't Barry Sanders we're talkin 'bout!!


We have no way of knowing how many current Packers will end up in the Hall.

First of all, there were half as many teams back then.

Second of all, we cannot predict the future. Therefore we cannot say Starr played with more future HoFers than Arodge.

Fact is, Starr willed his team to victory. 5 Championships. Threepeat. he made those around him great. When Arodge stops padding his own stats and starts willing the team to victory, I'll reconsider my position.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline Wade  
#42 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 1:01:32 PM(UTC)
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By the time he retires, Rodgers may have demonstrated that he was better.

But, and this is our codger's main point, he simply hasn't shown it yet. The teams he has led have one championship and two embarrassing first round losses.

Starr showed it. 5 times. 3 in a row.

When Rodgers has more rings than he has first round losses, then we can start talking about him passing Starr on the list of greats.

But not until then.

IMO
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#43 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 1:13:47 PM(UTC)
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The tired "padding stats" comment that has no support and again the five rings to one ring. *yawn*

It's quite amusing how the legend of Bart Starr has clouded some of our objectivity.

Still, no one has proven that Aaron Rodgers > Bart Starr being false. And that's because it's unfair to those who try. You simply can't prove Starr > Rodgers because it's not true.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#44 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 1:37:35 PM(UTC)
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David Whitehurst was better than any of them!!!!

He just didn't have the players round him to prove it!!!
Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#45 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 1:58:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
David Whitehurst was better than any of them!!!!

He just didn't have the players round him to prove it!!!


Joey Harrington feels his pain.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline yooperfan  
#46 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 2:11:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
The tired "padding stats" comment that has no support and again the five rings to one ring. *yawn*

It's quite amusing how the legend of Bart Starr has clouded some of our objectivity.

Still, no one has proven that Aaron Rodgers > Bart Starr being false. And that's because it's unfair to those who try. You simply can't prove Starr > Rodgers because it's not true.


I'm guessing you are too young to have seen the Packers play during the Bart Starr years and you are just looking at stats and I'm not a stat guy but I saw every game during the glory years.
I've seen every game that Rodgers has played for the Packers and there is no doubt in my mind that Starr was a better QB during his career than Rodgers has been thus far.Wanna Box?

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Offline wpr  
#47 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 2:31:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
The tired "padding stats" comment that has no support and again the five rings to one ring. *yawn*

It's quite amusing how the legend of Bart Starr has clouded some of our objectivity.

Still, no one has proven that Aaron Rodgers > Bart Starr being false. And that's because it's unfair to those who try. You simply can't prove Starr > Rodgers because it's not true.


It is amazing that the immediacy of Rodgers playing clouds the minds of today's youth. They fail to consider just how much the league has changed it's approach to the game which is mainly due to the extreme change in the rules.

You keep looking and talking about how many times Rodgers throws the ball and how many yards he has accumulated. I on the other hand point out that passing is only one aspect of the duties of a qb. If we are going to speak about a QB in the NFL let's talk about the whole man not a portion. You also love to look at what Aaron did for the last few years and project those same statistics out for another 10 years. you can't do that. Well obviously you can but it is wrong to assume he will do the same. he could have a career ending injury and the first preseason play and he will not accumulate any more.

By and large everyone who supports Starr has said Rodgers has done a better job at this point in his career of throwing the football. Rodgers has not done a better job with his career as a whole and total package. One day he may get the recognition you so desire but not today.

As for me, my perception of Starr is not clouded. I think Favre is a better QB than he is even with one 1 championship. I think Starr if he played on a lesser team with lesser talent might not be in the Hall. But then he, with his excellent leadership to use your term may have made that mythical team better and won multiple championships with them too.

The first step to this whole discussion is for you to admit that while Rodgers passing stats are greater it is immensely to accumulate passing yards today.
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Offline DakotaT  
#48 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 2:35:34 PM(UTC)
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Let's put a twist to this dilemma - if you had a choice between Starr, Favre, and Rodgers to begin a franchise with in any era of football you choose - which quarterback would you take. I'll take Rodgers and not even think twice about it.
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Offline wpr  
#49 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 2:49:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Let's put a twist to this dilemma - if you had a choice between Starr, Favre, and Rodgers to begin a franchise with in any era of football you choose - which quarterback would you take. I'll take Rodgers and not even think twice about it.


the era does matter. If it is the 30's though 60's Starr would be the better choice. if it is the 2010's Favre or Rodgers would be better choices.
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Offline dfosterf  
#50 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 3:05:30 PM(UTC)
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I don't care what the criteria is. I love Bart Starr. I thought he was WAY under-rated at the time. The man seemed genius to me.

Bart Starr could not possibly be in the same conversation with Aaron Rodgers. I was just as passionate about these matters then as I am now.

Eye test and memory. Bart was better than anyone gives him credit for being now, but that isn't good enough in this comparison...


Aaron Rodgers is S I C K good. No one I have ever seen does the things that man does with a football with the circumstances he is presented with.

No One. Ever. Not in my lifetime. I keep telling you, we are living off the gravy he provides us, and so many are too young to know, and the ones that are old enough can't let go of their loyalties and distorted memories.

I AM SOMETIMES EMBARRASSED at how my team has failed to capititalize on this extraordinary talent we have. It is why I RANT, at times...

I AM CURSED WITH PERSPECTIVE! What a BITCH! lol

Favre isn't in the conversation, for me. The man was un-wise with the football too many times when it mattered a lot, and his skill-set was also below Rodgers in actually throwing the damn thing, by quite a bit, actually.

Message modified by user Monday, April 1, 2013 3:51:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



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