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Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, April 9, 2013 11:46:24 AM(UTC)
Eric Winston said:
In the $3-4 million range is something that I think is more than fair for a starter who has played pretty well throughout his career.



Is this guy worth what he wants? I’m not sure how Bryan Bulaga and Derek Sherrod are coming along, but if neither is ready, the Tackles would probably be Marshall Newhouse and Don Barclay. I’d feel more comfortable if they signed Winston for RT and let Sherrod and Bulaga battle it out for LT with the loser being backup.
Laser Gunns  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, April 9, 2013 9:58:05 PM(UTC)
As far as I know, Winston is a pretty good RT.

The fact he is unsigned after all this time is a red flag.

He may be hurt, or is asking more than they are letting on. (A lot of guaranteed years)
play2win  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:28:25 AM(UTC)
I am thinking Ted sticks with Andrew Datko. This kid was projected as a early R3 talent coming off shoulder surgery and because of that we got him in the 6th last year. He was medically cleared post surgery, and spent all of last season building his strength on a 6-6 320 frame. Super smart. Good feet. One of those "no one works harder" types. Excellent at reading schemes. Allowed 1 sack in his last full season of play. I think we are better at OT than many might think, but that is just my guess.

"Why Packer fans should keep an eye on him: The best way I can state this is that Datko is a lot like James Starks. Starks was looking a solid 2-4 round pick before his injury in college that caused his draft stock to sink. The Packers got him in the sixth round and so far he has worked out alright, but he still struggles to get on the field. Datko was projected to be a second round pick by many until his most recent shoulder injury. If he can stay healthy then the Packers have a great swing tackle at the very least and a possible prototypical left tackle for nothing at the best. All he has to do is keep developing and stay healthy."
http://www.acmepackingco...e-spotlight-andrew-datko

I bet they roll with him, maybe select another in the draft. That's just based on their trending.

Winston (6-7 302) would be a good pick up though for RT. Only 3 sacks allowed last season in over 1000 snaps. Total cap casualty. Great zone blocker. This would be one of those signings that could save a draft choice for better use on D. I'm all for it if they would do it. Eric Winston would be a great addition to our team, protecting Rodgers and opening up some lanes for our RBs.

I would say YES! Sign the guy!
Pack93z  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:10:11 AM(UTC)
I don't think it would be a bad signing.. however depending on the cap space after we get the Rodgers/Matthews deals done.. I think there are also other options that would be considerations for that portion of the left over cap space.

Shaun Phillips comes to mind.. a 3-4 OLB that had 9.5 sacks again last year.. might have a limited window in which he is effective yet, but might be a 2 or 3 year solution.. or at worst a rotational player with Matthews, Perry, Moses to give us more of a pass rush punch.

buckeyepackfan  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:21:59 AM(UTC)
Nobody wrong here, Winston would be a good signing, but is that position the one The Packers have the most need at?

The big ELEPHANT in the room,which seems to be being ignored right now is when is Ted going to get the deals with Aaron and Clay done?

The longer it takes, the fewer of these FA's,(who might become available at a lower price), will be left unsigned.

I guess the negotiations between Ted and AR's and Clay's agent gives him a built in excuse not to get involved in any FA negotiations with veteran players.
Zero2Cool  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:30:56 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Nobody wrong here, Winston would be a good signing, but is that position the one The Packers have the most need at?

The big ELEPHANT in the room,which seems to be being ignored right now is when is Ted going to get the deals with Aaron and Clay done?

The longer it takes, the fewer of these FA's,(who might become available at a lower price), will be left unsigned.

I guess the negotiations between Ted and AR's and Clay's agent gives him a built in excuse not to get involved in any FA negotiations with veteran players.


Those players are under contract already. The extensions are being worked on by their Agent (I say Agent because I think they are represented by the same one) and Russ Ball, not Ted Thompson. Thompson approves contracts, Ball writes them.

I don't believe the Packers care about excuses as to why they didn't sign a Free Agent and I for one am pleased they don't care to consider the fans opinions/thoughts when leading the professional franchise of the Green Bay Packers.

No elephant, just a bunch of inpatient fans, which I think is great!
warhawk  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:43:10 AM(UTC)
The Packers have a lot invested in Sherrod and Bulaga so if they are ready physically I cannot see inhibiting either from getting the PT they need. Sherrod has started 5 whole games. I would guess if the medical staff is happy with where he is at physically they won't pay somebody else while taking away the snaps he needs to become a solid OL.
If I remember correctly Sherrod was not projected to be an instant starter but with experience had all the tools to be a very good OL. They say it takes two years for OL to succeed but fan wise I find very few with that kind of patience.
Mucky Tundra  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:56:37 AM(UTC)
Out of curiosity I googled eric winston pass protection. Didn't even click on the results and just looked at the brief text preview beneath each link. Copied and pasted:

Link 1: Everyone needs to be honest; Eric Winston was the worst of our starting linemen in pass protection last year.

Link 2: Eric Winston - Winston had some issues in pass protection with speed rushers and with guys who could make strong inside moves, but ...

Link 3: Most fans were shocked today when the Texans cut Eric Winston loose. ... but his pass protection has been a bit of an issue the last couple of ...

Link 4: Eric Winston 2013 player profile, game log, season stats, career stats, ... fits one scheme and is coming off a sub-par season in pass protection.

Link 9: Tackle Eric Winston continues to look for a job. He could be ... A steady run blocker but his pass protection was hit and miss. Smart guy and not ...

I bolded the part in Link 2 because isn't that what our OTs struggled with over the past few years? If he has trouble pass blocking on run first teams like the Texans and Chiefs, what chance does he have in GB?! Seems like a real roll of the dice if they were to sign him[suicide]
wpr  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:08:47 AM(UTC)
thanks mucky. I was not keen on signing him to begin with. Rather see our current players grow and develop. But if he can't pass block he is useless.

edit- I just noticed my typo on the name. I be bad and will stand in a corner for 5 minutes. Times up.
Pack93z  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:58:05 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
thanks murky. I was not keen on signing him to begin with. Rather see our current players grow and develop. But if he can't pass block he is useless.


Wait.. I am confused.. one thread you are saying you want impact free agents.. in this one let the young guys grow and develop. Don't we have young guys at about every position? [grin1]
wpr  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:28:40 PM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Wait.. I am confused.. one thread you are saying you want impact free agents.. in this one let the young guys grow and develop. Don't we have young guys at about every position? [grin1]


All right, just because I like you I will try to help you through your confusion.

just because I want Ted to look at (and acquire) quality free agents I don't every guy that puts on a jock.
OT is not a position of need.

They do have options. First we the fans have no idea if Sherrod and Bulaga or fine or not. If they are we don't need him. If they are not does the coaching staff feel the Newhouse and or Barclay have shown enough? What about Datko. I had zero expectations from him last year and only a tiny bit more this year.

RB, S and DL are positions that could have used an off season upgrade. Like Datko, I am not as excited about Harris as everyone else is. Green needs to grow but I question his ceiling as well. Starks is what he is. He will not grow much more. He will be injured more. I am ignoring Saine altogether.

Yes all the safeties are young. Maybe they need more time to grow. How much will they grow in one year? Not enough to be above average quality safeties in 2013. A seasoned vet with some savvy experience would have been nice.

DL. Sigh. Pick is getting down right old. Raji is good but would do better with some real help. Neal has not shown very much in his limited time. I wouldn't want to count on him being the help they really need. Daniels and Worthy may be the guys they are looking for but it would be nice if GB picked up someone to step in while they are still learning what to do and I don't expect Worthy to do any contributing this year at all.

LB is fine. I wouldn't have minded for them to look at a 3-4 OLB but Perry needs those reps.
WR's picked up via the FA is not always a good thing. I don't see that as a critical need. They can go the draft route and pay a whole lot less to get the same results.
TE same thing.
QB I would not have minded a decent/reliable #2. Perhaps they will stick Coleman into that spot this year.
OG and C. The guards are solid who ever they pick up would be backup only and they have that covered with current players already. I would prefer to use a #2 or 3 for a C and then let him work his way into the lineup.

So summarize of what I have been saying for weeks, I don't want Ted to spend $100 mil on 15 new FA's. That would be stupid. They don't have that kind of need. By the same token I hate it when fans, media and the Packer's FO acts like that is the only option to talk about. They could go out and pick up 1 player this year, one player next year who is more than just camp fodder, that happens to make the team, and fill him into a slot where they could use some help. Injury prone players and guys who have played for more than 10 years need not apply.

better now?
Pack93z  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:40:10 PM(UTC)
Wayne.. I understood your point.. just set out to rattle your cage a little.. [grin1]

Seriously, I am in the same position.. we might not agree on the quality factor of all free agents.. but I do think at times Ted could dip into the market a bit more, if the opportunity presents itself. I think he has done that with mixed results.. and I think at times maybe he could be a bit more aggressive in pursuit.. and maybe at times over plays the our player approach.

All I know is yearly we are near the top of the league in wins, in least amount of dead money, cap space, and youngest roster. With a hard salary cap.. and our yearly win totals.. it is hard to say it doesn't work.

To me, our issues stem more from these two aspects yearly.. injuries and offensive line play. Injuries are somewhat of a more complex issue in part.. and just plain poor luck. The offensive line play. that falls on Mike McCarthy for sticking with Campen as a coach there as he has proven over and over he can't consistently develop talent and mold it into a solid unit. We can't say that Ted hasn't put players into the system.. and some high draft picks to boot.. except maybe at center.

That offensive line play trickles down to the defense via field position and time of possession, not to mention gets our QB knocked around to often and hampers our running attack at critical points.
play2win  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:57:19 PM(UTC)
Mucky Tundra said: Go to Quoted Post
Out of curiosity I googled eric winston pass protection. Didn't even click on the results and just looked at the brief text preview beneath each link. Copied and pasted:

Link 1: Everyone needs to be honest; Eric Winston was the worst of our starting linemen in pass protection last year.

Link 2: Eric Winston - Winston had some issues in pass protection with speed rushers and with guys who could make strong inside moves, but ...

Link 3: Most fans were shocked today when the Texans cut Eric Winston loose. ... but his pass protection has been a bit of an issue the last couple of ...

Link 4: Eric Winston 2013 player profile, game log, season stats, career stats, ... fits one scheme and is coming off a sub-par season in pass protection.

Link 9: Tackle Eric Winston continues to look for a job. He could be ... A steady run blocker but his pass protection was hit and miss. Smart guy and not ...

I bolded the part in Link 2 because isn't that what our OTs struggled with over the past few years? If he has trouble pass blocking on run first teams like the Texans and Chiefs, what chance does he have in GB?! Seems like a real roll of the dice if they were to sign him[suicide]


hmmm. The guy only gave up 3 sacks in 2012, over 1000 snaps. I wonder how many pressures he gave up?
wpr  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:08:16 PM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Wayne.. I understood your point.. just set out to rattle your cage a little.. [grin1]

Seriously, I am in the same position.. we might not agree on the quality factor of all free agents.. but I do think at times Ted could dip into the market a bit more, if the opportunity presents itself. I think he has done that with mixed results.. and I think at times maybe he could be a bit more aggressive in pursuit.. and maybe at times over plays the our player approach.

All I know is yearly we are near the top of the league in wins, in least amount of dead money, cap space, and youngest roster. With a hard salary cap.. and our yearly win totals.. it is hard to say it doesn't work.

To me, our issues stem more from these two aspects yearly.. injuries and offensive line play. Injuries are somewhat of a more complex issue in part.. and just plain poor luck. The offensive line play. that falls on Mike McCarthy for sticking with Campen as a coach there as he has proven over and over he can't consistently develop talent and mold it into a solid unit. We can't say that Ted hasn't put players into the system.. and some high draft picks to boot.. except maybe at center.

That offensive line play trickles down to the defense via field position and time of possession, not to mention gets our QB knocked around to often and hampers our running attack at critical points.


I pretty much knew where you were coming from. Decided to peak to FA on a position by position basis and use you as the excuse to do so. Plus take a shot at those who over react to acquiring FA's. ThumpUp

This is the area I will give you a small amount of contention. If all we want and expect from GB is to go 10-6 to 14-2, make the playoffs every year. Win a playoff game or 2 then Ted is doing exactly what needs to be done. They sell out the stadium. They will be among the leaders in licensed goods sales. Stick a few bucks into the reserves coffer and everyone in town will say "Hi" when they see Ted or Mike or the rest of the gang when they are on a beach in FL.

But if we want championships and a lot of them then they have to do more. They have to risk more. They want the players to give a 110% but they only want to go 70-80% and hope for the best when it comes to putting a team together.

Except for nermann, I think everyone likes to see Aaron Rodgers take a couple of shots down field during a game. that is all I ask for. take a couple of shots in the FA market. Not eve every year. Every couple of years would be fine. He will connect sometimes and miss on others. But if he goes for real honest to goodness quality players instead of 3rd tier rejects, the walking wounded or ancient mariners of the game he will be more successful that he has been.

You know what? I would even accept them saying that they have no intention of wasting money on top quality FAs. They will not pick up even one player. It is this double speak crap I resent of "Oh other teams like Washington and Phillie grabbed a whole bunch of players and it just doesn't work that way." Don't treat me like I am stupid Ted and & Co I hate that.

In the past I have not been real vocal on getting FAs. But the crap they have been slinging is getting real old. Man up or shut up.
Pack93z  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:30:13 PM(UTC)
Oh, don't get me wrong, for me in my mind it is the Lombardi or bust every year.. but realistically speaking that can't happen.. not with the parity.

So, each year we have to get into the playoffs, this gives us a shot yearly at the title.

My frustration in reality is our inability or lack of desire to become a complete enough football team to win in multiple fashions.. IE.. being able to run when the game dictates we need to run. To clarify for the pass happy slingers.. not run first mentality, but run when we should run the ball based on match up, down and distance, clock management or just to impose our will upon the defense and break their backs.

This all comes back to consistent offensive line play, play calling and possibly scheme. I firmly believe yearly we have the talent on this roster to win it all.. we have depth at almost every position yearly. 2010 attests to that. So did last season.

I don't think it is a talent problem.. I think it starts with offensive mentality and it rolls over to the defense. "Finesse" if you will. Lacking physicality. Etc.

Again, I think we score with the pass.. and we most of the time do that well.. but I think the missing element is after we score and take a lead, balance up the offense a bit more and control the ball, consistently have the edge in field position and grind team down.

I said it a number of times since 2008.. we have the talent on the offensive line to do it.. we lack the position coaches to get it out of them and play as a complete unit .. which may or may not be the basis that the blue collar Mike McCarthy doesn't break the opposition more with the run later in games and protect the exposure the defense has.

I will never understand the retention of James Campen yearly..
buckeyepackfan  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:46:09 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Those players are under contract already. The extensions are being worked on by their Agent (I say Agent because I think they are represented by the same one) and Russ Ball, not Ted Thompson. Thompson approves contracts, Ball writes them.

I don't believe the Packers care about excuses as to why they didn't sign a Free Agent and I for one am pleased they don't care to consider the fans opinions/thoughts when leading the professional franchise of the Green Bay Packers.

No elephant, just a bunch of inpatient fans, which I think is great!


I guess I should have added a little sarcasm alert on my last statement, and sorry I don't know the pecking order when it comes to who negotiates contract extensions.

I could care less if The Packers sign any FA's, but the fact remains, this year FA is a little different, there are still quality players available.

Looks like all the big money has been spent, so there very well could be a player available at a decent price that could help The Packers, but until Rodgers and Mathews get their deals done, it makes it difficult to go after anybody.

The ? was should Packers sign RT Eric Winston, different opinions here, I don't have a clue whether he could help, so I say no.
Zero2Cool  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:58:41 PM(UTC)
I don't have a clue either ... offensive line would have to be my weakest knowledge point ... and there are several to choose from lol
Mucky Tundra  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:48:00 PM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
hmmm. The guy only gave up 3 sacks in 2012, over 1000 snaps. I wonder how many pressures he gave up?


Hmm, given that the Chiefs went 2-14 last year, maybe they didn't have the ball much on offense? I'm thinking back to 2006 when GB went 4-12 and were good statistically against giving up passing yards. Of course, that's because opposing teams were busy milking the clock. #-o

I should point out too most of those thinks I posted were from Houston Texan sites or message boards and Winston played there for six years.

All in all, he isn't better than Bulaga, doesn't seem like a huge upgrade over Newhouse and seems like a more expensive, older version of Barclay who already hit his ceiling.
play2win  
#19 Posted : Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:52:20 AM(UTC)
Mucky Tundra said: Go to Quoted Post
Hmm, given that the Chiefs went 2-14 last year, maybe they didn't have the ball much on offense? I'm thinking back to 2006 when GB went 4-12 and were good statistically against giving up passing yards. Of course, that's because opposing teams were busy milking the clock. #-o

I should point out too most of those thinks I posted were from Houston Texan sites or message boards and Winston played there for six years.

All in all, he isn't better than Bulaga, doesn't seem like a huge upgrade over Newhouse and seems like a more expensive, older version of Barclay who already hit his ceiling.


Hey muck,

I don't have anything invested in any of this, other than my stock. If Ted thinks it is a good call, fine. Personally, I don't think he is looking this direction, and will be sticking with what he has at LT.
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