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MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 5:49:42 AM(UTC)
ProFootballTalk said:
After making a major investment in their quarterback, the Packers are making a minor-looking change in how they protect him.

But if it keeps Aaron Rodgers upright, it will be quite significant.

According to Tom Silverstein of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, the Packers plan to flip right tackle Bryan Bulaga to left tackle, and swap left guard T.J. Lang and right guard Josh Sitton.

That will leave former left tackle Marshall Newhouse, last year’s undrafted rookie Don Barclay and 2011 first-rounder Derek Sherrod competing for the right tackle job.

“I sat down with Bryan and Josh on Monday and I told them I wanted to make the move to where they’re on the left side,” McCarthy said. “Those two are our most accomplished and experienced players. I told them about the responsibilities and my expectations about playing the left side.

“Some of the things we’ll want to get into schematically as we move forward. They were excited about it.”
Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 6:04:15 AM(UTC)
At first brush ... I do not like this. Josh Sitton was the best OL the Packers have and now they flip him?
steveishere  
#3 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 6:20:57 AM(UTC)
Yeah I don't get it. If one side of your line wasn't good enough before then one side of your line still isn't good enough and now you've added at least 1 more unknown (Bulaga at LT). I could see flipping one of them just to have 1 of each of your two best linemen on each side but it seems to me like making a change just for the sake of changing something.
Gaycandybacon  
#4 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 6:23:19 AM(UTC)
I was not expecting this. I wanted to see what they had at LT with Bulaga, but now Sitton. I hope they think this will make the team better. My opinion on this is they want to run to the left more.. Best run blockers on the team. And of course want to protect dat franchise. Time to see if Bulaga has what it takes.
Pack93z  
#5 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 6:50:24 AM(UTC)
I think the Packers honestly, for all the things they do right, having absolutely no fucking clue when it comes to building an offensive line.

My only hope now is that they do it and leave it be.. but honestly, I think Campen is a lost cause long ago. At the end of the day, my only real complaint about the Packers front office and staff.
Dulak  
#6 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 6:52:44 AM(UTC)
sounds good to me; put 3 good players on the same side and have the blind side secure ... and like someone said can run toward that side.

not sure if bulaga will be the best left tackle but its time to try it out.

MintBaconDrivel  
#7 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 7:03:55 AM(UTC)
JerseyAl said:
The Green Bay Packers aren't waiting until training camp to shuffle their offensive line. Details of the Packers new-look line can be found in this excellent Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel story by Tom Silverstein. To summarize: Bryan Bulaga moves from right tackle to left tackle Josh Sitton moves from right guard to left guard T.J. Lang moves from [...]
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#8 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 7:20:29 AM(UTC)
This is about putting Barclay on the field for run blocking, and not exposing him to the elite pass rushers in our division. I only hope the rookies get a legitimate shot at Center and Right Guard because Lang and EDS are not starters on a competent offensive line. They are at best backups who just so happen to be starters in Green Bay.

I don't understand Mike McCarthy and TT's loyalty to a weak coach like Campen! It really is a major flaw in a solid structured franchise.
Gaycandybacon  
#9 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 7:38:25 AM(UTC)
I think the point here is, if you give up 51 sacks there has to be some type of change. I think McCarthy ultimately made the call here. I think it's the right one. Instead of testing out Tackles on the Left side, try to give our best linemen an opportunity to succeed on the blind side of the line. Bulaga was drafted imo to be our LT it's time to see what the kid has. I think Newhouse will benefit from the right side, as Sherrod will. Both played there at times in 2011 and played fairly well. Barclay already shown he can play right tackle, so he's good there. EDS will fight for a job with Tretter and Bak. But I'm in favor of EDS right now. He made our running game better replacing Saturday last season. EDS is a better fit at C than G. He also only started a couple games. I say give him time before writing him off. Lang is Lang. He'll probably start, but i'm not to worried about him. Maybe this change will make Lang better. And if these rooks impress, he'll step his game up. Please Mike McCarthy please be right on this move.
Pack93z  
#10 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 7:56:29 AM(UTC)
In place of constant musical chairs.. how about actually building a cohesive unit from the start. It sounds easy to just flip them from one side to the other, but it is not.

Your stance is different, your initial setup is different, your slide and balance is different (especially at tackle).

Your arm play is different, most people favor one hand over the other.. you have to account for that.

Your reads are different, albeit with our wide range of sets, probably not as bad as more static offenses.

Personally, MM, until you fix the root issue (Campen) this other shit is smoke and mirrors. Quit dicking with the personnel and fix the root issue... the position coach whom has struggled from day one to build a freaking solid unit.

I don't mind them trying to put their best players where they want them to be.. but do it from day one then. Playing musical chairs yearly just weakens the entire unit as a whole.

Campen seriously must be one hell of a guy or something, because time after time they give him more rope and talent to waste.
steveishere  
#11 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 8:04:08 AM(UTC)
Yeah it seems to me that if this move was necessary then it should have been made last year. The only thing I can think of is maybe they really think Barclay is a better RT than the other guys are as LT and want to make a situation where he can get on the field. He's the only player on the roster at the moment who has had any real success as a RT besides Bulaga.
Gaycandybacon  
#12 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 8:09:34 AM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
In place of constant musical chairs.. how about actually building a cohesive unit from the start. It sounds easy to just flip them from one side to the other, but it is not.

Your stance is different, your initial setup is different, your slide and balance is different (especially at tackle).

Your arm play is different, most people favor one hand over the other.. you have to account for that.

Your reads are different, albeit with our wide range of sets, probably not as bad as more static offenses.

Personally, MM, until you fix the root issue (Campen) and this other shit is smoke and mirrors. Quit dicking with the personnel and fix the root issue... the position coach whom has struggled from day one to build a freaking solid unit.

I don't mind them trying to put their best players where they want them to be.. but do it from day one then. Playing musical chairs yearly just weakens the entire unit as a whole.


What do you suggest we do? Fire Campen and start the same line as last year that struggled all season long?

You bought up building a cohesive unit from the start. Well that's what they're doing. They wanna try something new, if it's musical chairs so be it. It's not like they've never played the other side before, otherwise they wouldn't have done this move.
This isn't really musical chairs either, i'd only say that if it was in the middle of a season. They are gonna start off with a group and see if it works.

Blame the coaches all you want it's not gonna fix it with the snap of someone elses fingers.

DoddPower  
#13 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 8:24:31 AM(UTC)
Gaycandybacon said: Go to Quoted Post
What do you suggest we do? Fire Campen and start the same line as last year that struggled all season long?

You bought up building a cohesive unit from the start. Well that's what they're doing. They wanna try something new, if it's musical chairs so be it. It's not like they've never played the other side before, otherwise they wouldn't have done this move.
This isn't really musical chairs either, i'd only say that if it was in the middle of a season. They are gonna start off with a group and see if it works.

Blame the coaches all you want it's not gonna fix it with the snap of someone elses fingers.




Yeah, better late than never. Sure, it could have been attempted earlier, but it wasn't. They have got to do what they can from here, regardless of what has happened in the past. It's not ideal, but reality hardly ever is. At least now they have an entire off season and season to grow. I don't think Bulaga will be any worse than Newhouse at LT, and very likely much better. I also think Newhouse has the potential to be a very solid RT and will be much more valuable there than at LT. This move could definitely pay off, but there will be some growing pains.
play2win  
#14 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 8:26:01 AM(UTC)
Well, we know what they did last season did not work... at all. Personally, I don't think anyone outside of Sitton, Lang and Bulaga own a position on this line.

I could not agree more about the piss poor coaching by Campen, all these years. It has been horrible. McCarthy hasn't helped with pass happy schemes to start each season, putting all of his OL on their heels in pass blocking sets.

Please change the coaching!!! Get a consultant. Anything. I don't care. James Campen has shown very poorly as our OL coach since his installment there.
Pack93z  
#15 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 8:55:32 AM(UTC)
Gaycandybacon said: Go to Quoted Post
What do you suggest we do? Fire Campen and start the same line as last year that struggled all season long?


Yes.. I do think walking Campen now would be the best thing. Actually the only thing that will fix this unit for the balance of Mike McCarthy time here and or Rodgers.

I am not opposed to moving Bulaga to his nature position and one in which he was drafted to do.. left tackle. I believe it should have been done in 2011 or at worst last season if they were going to do so. Or if they felt Sherrod was a better long term fit, then what has changed if they have confidence he can return? Personally now, I think they are also hampering Newhouse's development as a tackle, if that is what they see him as.

But now they are going to basically start completely over.. which is even fine if it can be done effectively. There is the rub, Campen was the one that put together the current positioning and it has failed. He failed to develop prospect after prospect, yearly we see breakdown after breakdown in stunt pickups and reads.

Yearly they move guys around.. at least the past three years they left the right side alone for the most part and it became the strongest part of the unit. Not a coincidence.

So we are going to enter camp without a single player returning to the same position as last season.. EDS may find a home at Center instead of playing all three inside spots.

If you are going to start fresh, all I am saying is start fresh with a new position coach that actually can build a unit.

So yes, I suggest today to walk him from the position and find a candidate that can do the job. Because this solution hasn't proven to be successful.. jumbling the positions again is just another sign that it hasn't worked.

And if Mike McCarthy did force this move as suggested.. what further evidence does one need?
Gaycandybacon  
#16 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 9:09:08 AM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Yes.. I do think walking Campen now would be the best thing. Actually the only thing that will fix this unit for the balance of Mike McCarthy time here and or Rodgers.

I am not opposed to moving Bulaga to his nature position and one in which he was drafted to do.. left tackle. I believe it should have been done in 2011 or at worst last season if they were going to do so. Or if they felt Sherrod was a better long term fit, then what has changed if they have confidence he can return? Personally now, I think they are also hampering Newhouse's development as a tackle, if that is what they see him as.

But now they are going to basically start completely over.. which is even fine if it can be done effectively. There is the rub, Campen was the one that put together the current positioning and it has failed. He failed to develop prospect after prospect, yearly we see breakdown after breakdown in stunt pickups and reads.

Yearly they move guys around.. at least the past three years they left the right side alone for the most part and it became the strongest part of the unit. Not a coincidence.

So we are going to enter camp without a single player returning to the same position as last season.. EDS may find a home at Center instead of playing all three inside spots.

If you are going to start fresh, all I am saying is start fresh with a new position coach that actually can build a unit.

So yes, I suggest today to walk him from the position and find a candidate that can do the job. Because this solution hasn't proven to be successful.. jumbling the positions again is just another sign that it hasn't worked.

And if Mike McCarthy did force this move as suggested.. what further evidence does one need?


I'm no offensive line genius, but all the O-Line needs to do is keep 5 guys healthy this year to be successful. That's it. I think the coaches like I said want to put the players in their best position to play well. As well as see if they can play better at another position. The thing that is bright about this offensive line is versatility.
Pack93z  
#17 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 9:38:49 AM(UTC)
Gaycandybacon said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm no offensive line genius, but all the O-Line needs to do is keep 5 guys healthy this year to be successful. That's it. I think the coaches like I said want to put the players in their best position to play well. As well as see if they can play better at another position. The thing that is bright about this offensive line is versatility.


Neither am I an genius nor expert... but it boils down to this simple principle in life. If I am failing at my job, I expect a certain amount of time to resolve the issue. If I cannot correct it, I expect to be replaced from those responsibilities or given assistance to correct it at a minimum.

The beauty of sports, or part of it, is that it is a business in which it is visible for the world to see.

And time after time, Campen's units have failed to live up to the standards put forth. Yes, some of that is play call related as it gives the advantage to the defense, but in the same regard, if the oline was blowing holes open, we probably would see more runs.

We have seen prospect after prospect trotted in to GB, some drafted, some FA, some UDFA. But guess what, other teams have the same playing field.. and they yearly manage to put out good products at offensive line.

Hence the frustration.. it isn't the moves really. It is the fact that we again are forced to play switcheroo because of the inability of the position coaches on the offensive line to build a unit. We can talk about injuries there.. but yearly we have struggled with the starting 5 as well. Think back to 07, or 08. Same thing.. different year.

And it is not that we haven't had the talent available.. they have played well in stretches.. but lack consistency and focus over the term. It screams coaching.
play2win  
#18 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 9:45:09 AM(UTC)
Is Russ Grimm available? I don't see him listed anywhere on a staff. He did great with the Cardinals early with Edgerrin James and Kurt Warner. He's got to be better than Campen.

Bob Wylie looks to be available. Improved the Raiders line in 2011 from 29th to 4th in total sacks allowed. Don't know about the run blocking there.

We could raid the college ranks too.

Rick Trickett from Florida State knows a thing or two about zone blocking...

Hell, hire Alex Gibbs as a consultant!!! Why not?
Pack93z  
#19 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 10:11:19 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Is Russ Grimm available? I don't see him listed anywhere on a staff. He did great with the Cardinals early with Edgerrin James and Kurt Warner. He's got to be better than Campen.

Bob Wylie looks to be available. Improved the Raiders line in 2011 from 29th to 4th in total sacks allowed. Don't know about the run blocking there.

We could raid the college ranks too.

Rick Trickett from Florida State knows a thing or two about zone blocking...

Hell, hire Alex Gibbs as a consultant!!! Why not?


Yeah.. A while back I ran through a list of guys and posted them as guys that I would see as significant upgrades.. even now, a offensive line coach would have time to digest the playbook and install protection schemes.

If that were to happen.. personally, I am a ton happier with a juggle knowing that someone might have a plan short and long term for a productive offensive line.
Wade  
#20 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 11:18:16 AM(UTC)
I think Newhouse will be solid at RT. I'd prefer him there anyway. I think it's actually an upgrade. Therefore, I have no problem with that part of the move....except...

as most people know, I think Bulaga overrated. I think he was overrated at RT, especially against the pass, and I am not re-assured by the idea of him being the starting LT. This really scares me, and I don't care that it was the position he played at Iowa. I just don't think he's as good as everyone seems to think.

I don't know the differences in switching from one guard position to the other. So I don't know if this is going to be a significant thing for Sitton or not. He's definitely going to be an improvement over Lang.

But this points out, again, why I wish Ted Thompson was willing to gamble once in a while on tier 1/tier 2 OL in free agency. Because now we have, IMO, questions about all five of the OL starting positions:

LT: Will Bulaga make the switch and realize the potential everyone but me sees in him?
LG: Will Sitton play as well at LG as he did at RG?
C: Will EDS be good enough as a season-long starter?
RG: Will Lang play better than mediocre on the right side when he was mediocre on the left.
RT: Will Newhouse play better on the right side than the inconsistent sometimes good/sometimes bad/generally serviceable he played on the left.
And will anyone else show enough to transplant any of the four players who have, IMO, been at best "serviceable w/potential" in the past.

Maybe it's all Campen's fault. I never know how you are supposed to decide between whether its bad coaching or limited ability/bad scouting of "potential," or whatever. I only know that I find myself going through another offseason wondering whether 2013 is going to be another year where the OL is the weak link.

I only know that, unless something improves performance-wise on the line, onne of these years, instead of Rodgers bailing out the OL with his running/scrambling ability, we're going to see him missing several games to an ankle, a knee, or a concussion. Or worse.




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