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Offline Pack93z  
#31 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 3:48:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Josh. Sitton. All Pro.
Brian Bulaga. All- Rookie team
Don Barclay, UDFA. Competent fill in starter for a short term stint.
To name a few.

Our starters in the 49er game were 5th rd, 4th rd, UDFA, 4th rd, UDFA. Not exactly star material.
The 49ers were 1st rd, 1st rd, 5th rd, UDFA, 1st rd. Which looks better?

Yes, our line play could be improved. So could our dline, LB, RB, TE, DB, etc. It is not accurate to say he fails to develop prospects. He does. Josh Sitton did not become an All Pro by ignoring all coaching.

Before you get too down on Campen, come out of the snow bank and look at the Bears. Now their line sucks and has for years.


1 out of 12 drafted isn't bad I guess.. but then of course looking just at one single player does not make a unit either.

So lets look at those stats.. (now some of that is also related to play calling as well)

2012 51 sacks allowed, 31st in the league. - Bear 44 25th
2011 41 sacks allowed 21st in the league - Bears 49 27th
2010 38 sacks allowed 19th in the league - Bears 56 32nd
2009 51 sacks allowed 32nd in the league - Bears 35 19th

I am pretty damn sure that is failing to develop a good unit ... about par with the Bears and I am pretty damn sure they shit canned a coach or two in that tenure.

13 lineman drafted in his tenure.. 1 Pro Bowl appearance.. I will stick by my statement. That goodness Rodgers is durable and can throw on the run... unlike Cutler.

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I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Dulak on 5/4/2013(UTC)
Offline macbob  
#32 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 5:04:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Campen seriously must be one hell of a guy or something, because time after time they give him more rope and talent to waste.


or a guy with a hell of some seriously embarrassing photos of Mike McCarthy & TT... Whistle

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Pack93z on 5/3/2013(UTC)
Offline sschind  
#33 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 5:39:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
RG - Josh Sittion was considered the Packers best OL. RT - Bryan Bulaga was considered the Packers second best OL. I know! Let's switch them!!


But isn't the left side considered the more important than the right side? If so doesn't it make sense to put your best linemen on that side? Especially since they are going with the guys they have. They didn't draft a stud left tackle and they apparently are not going to sign one in free agency so if you want your best guys protecting your QB then you make the switch. You can argue about the wisdom, or lack thereof, of not drafting or signing players but in the long run that is irrelevant to the switch. Well, its not irrelevant, its the reason for the switch but what I mean is if you aren't going to bring in guys to make your line better you move your better guys to the most important positions. Hopefully the result is a better offensive line.

They have an entire off season to work it out. Somehow I think that if Bulaga and Sitton can make the change they will be fine. What I mean by that is if they have the physical and mental ability to make the switch (Bulaga played LT in college right?) I don't think time will be an issue. The biggest downside will be if they can not make the change, then they may switch them back and disrupt the entire thing again when they won't have the time to adjust to it.

I honestly don't think this is nearly as big of a deal as a lot of you are making it out to be unless you want to go back to the issue of failing to address the issue in the draft or FA. But again, I think that it is a totally different argument even though one may have been the direct result of the other.
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play2win on 5/4/2013(UTC)
Offline beast  
#34 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 5:40:58 PM(UTC)
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I find this very interesting, putting the Packers best two OL on the left side.

The three guys I'm finding most interesting right now are Sherrod, Barclay and Lang.

Mike McCarthy has said Sherrod had another surgery and seems totally different (in a good way) which made it sound like a very good sign that he's coming back. It would be nice to get good 1st round OT play out of both OT positions.

Barclay didn't look good enough in pass protection last year (when he didn't have help) but he was a rookie and could grow and become good enough to maybe compare at RT. And he was the best run blocker last year IMO (Bulaga was out... and Sitton seemed to be banged up and not playing at 100%, those two could be the best run blockers if they're 100% healthy). But if Newhouse and/or Sherrod are able to lock up RT, I think Barclay should get a long hard look at RG.

As I just said, I think Barclay should get a long hard look at RG, if RT get locked up by someone else, which I thought might put Lang out, but Mike McCarthy said something interesting in his post draft press conference.
Mike McCarthy said Lang can play Center. Which might make it very interesting if Barclay wins RG, does Lang then compete at Center?

I think this would make a very interesting/good Starting OL

LT: Bulaga
LG: Sitton
OC: Lang or Dietrich-Smith
RG: Barclay
RT: Newhouse or Sherrod


I don't know if Lang can play Center and snap well and all that stuff but Mike McCarthy said he can play Center and he should know.

Lang has been very mobile and I LOVE watching him go to the second level to take out a LB because he's very good at it and it's like watching a FB go get a LB more than watching a OL go get a LB... Lang just seems much better at it than most OL.

But Lang isn't the best in power blocking... but that's the strength of Sitton and Barclay... and with both of them right next to him the mixture could be a great fit for the team. As they have a guy that can move up field or pull with the best of them and two very good power run blockers on each side.
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Online wpr  
#35 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 6:46:34 PM(UTC)
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I don't mind the move. A little surprised. The big concern for me is that I think this really means Sherrod is not coming back despite the spin Mike & Co are giving us. Barclay is the new starting RT.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#36 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 6:48:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I don't mind the move. A little surprised. The big concern for me is that I think this really means Sherrod is not coming back despite the spin Mike & Co are giving us. Barclay is the new starting RT.


I'm trying to think positive about it ... and the only positive I can come up with is ... perhaps Coach Mike is settling on a OL very early ... which I feel would be freaking swell.
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Online wpr  
#37 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 6:57:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I'm trying to think positive about it ... and the only positive I can come up with is ... perhaps Coach Mike is settling on a OL very early ... which I feel would be freaking swell.


I would like to think positive but after so many times of under reporting the real nature of injuries I don't believe them.
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Offline Mucky Tundra  
#38 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 7:11:45 PM(UTC)
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My only hope for Sherrod is the bit McCarthy said a week ago when he said he was progressing and was expecting him to contribute. That's more info than we got all of last season on the guy (Ok, bit of an exaggeration). If it comes down to Barclay vs Newhouse for RT, then Barclay's taking it.
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Offline nerdmann  
#39 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 7:15:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I would like to think positive but after so many times of under reporting the real nature of injuries I don't believe them.


I agree with wpr on this.

However, it doesn't mean Sherrod will never be back. Didn't Flanagan need a couple years away? But I think it DEFINITELY means he's not where they want him to be. Good thing we have Bulaga. He's played LT before.

As for RT, I think Newhouse is the logical choice. He struggled at times at LT, but I think he'll be fine on the RT. You're not going up against the defense's best pass rusher on the RT. He'll have to beat out Barclay, Datko and the rookies though.

If Lang can play C, so much the better. I know the Packers love versatility on the line. I think there's gonna be competition there though. Which will be good.
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Offline steveishere  
#40 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 7:30:11 PM(UTC)
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Sherrod just isn't in a position where they can go into the offseason expecting him to make a major contribution. He hasn't even had a single offseason in his career and he's still rehabbing from a brutal injury. As far as decision making goes you cannot really expect anything from him at this point but just hope for the best.
Online wpr  
#41 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 7:53:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I agree with wpr on this.

However, it doesn't mean Sherrod will never be back. Didn't Flanagan need a couple years away? But I think it DEFINITELY means he's not where they want him to be. Good thing we have Bulaga. He's played LT before.

As for RT, I think Newhouse is the logical choice. He struggled at times at LT, but I think he'll be fine on the RT. You're not going up against the defense's best pass rusher on the RT. He'll have to beat out Barclay, Datko and the rookies though.

If Lang can play C, so much the better. I know the Packers love versatility on the line. I think there's gonna be competition there though. Which will be good.


I guess I don't mean he will never play. I am writing him off for this year too. If he does come back (Next year) I do not see them moving him back to LT as long as Bulaga has a good year.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#42 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 10:04:12 PM(UTC)
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Until proven otherwise, the word of McCarthy and the actions of Thompson in not drafting an O Lineman in the first three rounds supports the idea that Sherrod will be healthy. It's still not a bad idea, however, to put him at the less pressure-packed RT spot. Same for the possibility the RT starter is Newhouse or the even less likely prospect it is Barclay, Datko, or one of the rookies.

The reason for switching Sitton also is that it is smart to put your two best run blockers side by side. Also, our left side/a defense's right side is where you most often find the top flight pass rushers. Often it is a good idea to run the ball straight at that kind of guy.
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Offline nerdmann  
#43 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 10:18:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Until proven otherwise, the word of McCarthy and the actions of Thompson in not drafting an O Lineman in the first three rounds supports the idea that Sherrod will be healthy. It's still not a bad idea, however, to put him at the less pressure-packed RT spot. Same for the possibility the RT starter is Newhouse or the even less likely prospect it is Barclay, Datko, or one of the rookies.

The reason for switching Sitton also is that it is smart to put your two best run blockers side by side. Also, our left side/a defense's right side is where you most often find the top flight pass rushers. Often it is a good idea to run the ball straight at that kind of guy.


McCarthy's word has been proven otherwise many, many times. Particularly when it comes to player injuries.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#44 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 10:32:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
McCarthy's word has been proven otherwise many, many times. Particularly when it comes to player injuries.


No head coach is going to give you exact injuries. You should watch other head coaches post game conferences some time. It's not a Mike McCarthy thing, it's a coach thing.
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Offline all_about_da_packers  
#45 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2013 10:56:09 PM(UTC)
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Pack93z: Here is my issue with Campen - how do we measure exactly how competent he is?

When Mike McCarthy was hired, he hired Jagodszinsky as his OC. Jags was hired away from Atlanta, where he apparently had learned some secrets through recorded practices of teaching cut-blocking and zone blocking from Alex Gibbs. I remember it was widely known that Jags would be helping teach the zone blocking scheme, taking a lead role alongside Campen to implement the unique methods he learned from Gibbs.

Then Jags left to become coach at BC, and Philbin was hired as OC. I believe it was Dunne or Silverstein who mentioned (in response to wondering how big a loss was Philbin) that Philbin was missed most in thoroughly prepping the offense during the week for the looks they'd see from opposing defenses. Apparently, Philbin was thorough in going through the different formations that the offense could see on a Sunday; however, other than this it was said (in that article/chat) that Philbin spent most of the practices during the week with the O-line group. So, apparently Philbin had a hand in managing Campen's position group, as well.

Now McCarthy tells us he always thought Lang was best suited to RG. It's true; a while back (after Lang's rookie season) in an after-draft interview, I vividly remember Mike McCarthy saying how he thought Lang was best suited to RG, but other position coaches thought he had a chance at LG or even T. I remember this because it was a rare glimpse of how Mike McCarthy conducted business - a much more consensus approach as opposed to a "I say X, so X it is" type of approach; it was some unique insight into MM's management of his staff.

This move to Lang at RG, coupled with MM's comments about how he (Note: not a position coach like Campen, but "he" as in McCarthy himself) thought Lang was best suited to RG makes me again wonder how much say Campen has in the matter.

Frankly, throughout his tenure it seems Campen has not been given sole responsibility of the O-line unit. That either means Campen's an incompetent fool (which makes me wonder why McCarthy keeps Campen around, because he hired Campen on the suggestion of Larry Beightol; there was no prior history between Campen/MM), or frankly Mike McCarthy has stripped Campen of any ability to do his job (in which case, Campen is the "Yes" man who Mike McCarthy is happy to have around). I agree talent itself is not the sole issue of our problems.

But history makes it really difficult to apportion blame given that it seems like everyone and their mother has a say in our O-linemen coaching. That's not to say Campen is not a problem (his lack of seeming independence is worrisome), but I'm beginning to wonder if the finger should not be pointed at McCarthy directly for more than simply keeping Campen.
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