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Offline beast  
#16 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 11:22:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
So it looks like Pickett Raji and Jones get pencilled in as the starters, and I have heard Worthy might be PUP to start the year. I have a good feeling about Jolly, to be honest, and Neal should be good to go as well. That outs Daniels, Wilson Boyd and Miller in the mix for 2 spots? I don't see carrying more than 6 D-Line.

If Neal is 100% and Jolly can still play (I think he can) then I see the Line as a position of strength, and I think with more rotation, Raji and Pickett will both play better.


Okay lots of questions...

Did the Packers pencil in a rookie (Jones) to start or are you just guess? ... IMO you should NEVER pencil in a rookie, make them earn it.

Also you said only 6 ...
But you named 5 guys and said 2 more spots (which is 7)
so yeah the numbers aren't adding up in my mind.

Is Jolly even in Wisconsin yet? ... last I heard Mike McCarthy said he's not and he's still working though stuff.... I don't know but I'm guessing the Packers have Jolly going though some rehab both for the drug and work out getting his body back in playing shape (because lets be honest, those heavy DTs don't stay in shape when not active in the game or have someone to help push them.... plus _?_ how many years Jolly missed... and that he's never played in the 3-4... I'm guessing the Packers are going to try to get some sort of red shirt year for Jolly if possible.

Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
If we really are committed to getting bigger and stronger than I think Danials ( despite his flashes last year) does not make the team.


Daniels is short but he's very strong and the only guy who sometimes was moving forward against the 49ers (Pickett is the only guy who didn't get pushed back at all...)
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play2win on 5/17/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#17 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 11:48:55 AM(UTC)
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Daniels has fight in him. I like that kind of play, and I am guessing he may be able to stick.

CJ Wilson has been a bit of a disappointment, but then, so was Jarius Wynn. If all you can do is tackle, and you can't offer anything rushing the passer... 3.5 sacks in 3 years? Really?

Daniels picked up a couple sacks his first year, 12 solo tackles, 2 FRs, 1 PD, and a couple of stuffs. That was in some pretty limited action. I'm very interested to see how he progresses this season. This guy was a team captain at Iowa, ranked #3 overall in the Big Ten in sacks his senior year. He'll stick.
Offline beast  
#18 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 11:50:40 AM(UTC)
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The Packers always have kept 6 DL right after camp. They did have a number of injuries one year and brought up a 7th guy and kept him to the end of the year. So there is probably going to be 6 spots on DL... though with Pickett, Neal, Wilson and maybe Raji's contracts up at the end of this year (or the year after that in Raji's case), I've been thinking they might keep 7 just to make the transition to next year easier.

Locks: Pickett, Raji, Jones,

Maybe: Wilson, Neal, Boyd, Daniels

PUP/IR: Worthy

Other: Jolly

If they feel like they can give the DL a 7th spot, I would just keep all of the Locks and Maybes. Pickett, Wilson and Neal contracts are up at the end of the year and one or two of them probably aren't going to get resigned unless they're all cheap.


If we go with 6, I'd say cut Wilson or Neal (maybe Pickett but probably not).

Pickett is consistent as can be, clearly the best run clogger the Packers have. But isn't able to get much push in pass rush normally. But he's getting up there in age.

Wilson is like kind of like a younger worse version of Pickett, who's not as good in run clogging but a little tad better in pass rush, which might be replaced by Boyd.

Neal is the total opposite, he's a VERY good pass rusher at times but isn't consistent at all, which might be replaced by Jones.
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Offline DakotaT  
#19 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 11:57:21 AM(UTC)
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Why do we always hammer away at our base defense when we are in subpackages most of the time. The only time Pickett and Raji should be on the field together is in short yardage situations. The formation I'm excited to see is the two down lineman with Jones, Neal or Raji - and Clay and Perry rushing from the outside. When we can get pressure with the front four, then our playmakers in the secondary can start doing their thing. If we can't get any pressure our defense will continue its path of the last couple years. Jones and Perry are really the key to the whole thing.
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Offline beast  
#20 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 1:03:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Why do we always hammer away at our base defense when we are in subpackages most of the time.


Because if you don't stop the offense in the base defense then you don't get to subpackages (unless the offense goes to clearly passing formations) like in the playoffs, the 49ers ran all over the Packers in base defense... you don't go to those sub packages to stop the run (other than maybe goal line package).

Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
The only time Pickett and Raji should be on the field together is in short yardage situations.


I disagree. The Packers have different packages (even when in base defense) depending on the call.. in the traditional 3-4 defense (which is more conservative with their DL) they basically have three NTs (usually it's one huge NT and two mini NTs playing 3-4 DE). Which fits Pickett perfectly and he can play any where on the line in that. And Raji is Wilson have been getting the start in that as well.

Now when they go to the non-traditional DL packages such as the Phillips 3-4 defense (named after Bum Phillip I think) they ask their 3-4 DEs to be more aggressive and pass rush more (which leaves the LB un-protected) Pickett shouldn't be at DE for that. Though they have run that some in the past with Pickett at NT and Raji at DE.

And sometimes I've wondered if the Packers might be best running a 3-4 defense like Wade Phillips did in Dallas. Both DEs are asked to play traditional and protect the LB... while the NT (Raji in the Packers case) was asked to get up the field and into the back field as fast as possible.

Of course Capers doesn't seem to be interested in that and with Jones added I'd stay away from that more. But I thought it might of worked best with Raji and Daniels .

Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
The formation I'm excited to see is the two down lineman with Jones, Neal or Raji - and Clay and Perry rushing from the outside.


Totally agree... I'm hoping that guys like Jones, Raji, Daniels and maybe Neal can pick it up in the 2-4 nickel / dime packages.
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Offline nerdmann  
#21 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 2:58:01 PM(UTC)
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Yeah the less I hear about Jolly being IN TOWN and working hard to get ready, the more skeptical I become about his whole situation.
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Offline OlHoss1884  
#22 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 3:29:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beast Go to Quoted Post
Okay lots of questions...

Did the Packers pencil in a rookie (Jones) to start or are you just guess? ... IMO you should NEVER pencil in a rookie, make them earn it.

Also you said only 6 ...
But you named 5 guys and said 2 more spots (which is 7)
so yeah the numbers aren't adding up in my mind.

Is Jolly even in Wisconsin yet? ... last I heard Mike McCarthy said he's not and he's still working though stuff.... I don't know but I'm guessing the Packers have Jolly going though some rehab both for the drug and work out getting his body back in playing shape (because lets be honest, those heavy DTs don't stay in shape when not active in the game or have someone to help push them.... plus _?_ how many years Jolly missed... and that he's never played in the 3-4... I'm guessing the Packers are going to try to get some sort of red shirt year for Jolly if possible.

Daniels is short but he's very strong and the only guy who sometimes was moving forward against the 49ers (Pickett is the only guy who didn't get pushed back at all...)


1. I pencilled in Jones by my own prognostication. I don't think it's much of a risk to pencil in a rookie when he was drafted that high and plays a position that was weak last year. Clearly the team won't pencil him in until he DOES earn it.

2. I kind of messed up my numbers but I think they will keep 7, since I think they will work on Boyd as the eventual replacement for Pickett. However, I am also an optimist about Jolly though I know a lot of people aren't.

3. Jolly has been working out in Texas, and he's not in WI yet for legal reasons...he's trying toi verify with his PO that he is legal to go and won't havfe any issues with the state. I think this whole episode has been a wakeup call for him and I am optimistic about his attitude and condition. The question is whether the long layoff will make him to rusty to make the roster, but that might, in the end, be more a matter of numbers. If they go with 6 and Boyd looks like the next Jolly (on the field) he might not make the cut.

4. I don't think Daniels is all that bad, but I think I like him (and Neal) for depth, not as regulars. I just don't think the team is enamored enough of him or even Neal or Wilson at this point to guarantee anything. Assuming Boyd makes it. that's 3 spots with run stuffers and 1 (Jones) who is purported to be a pass rusher, so it might make sense to keep players that either have more versatility or at least can push the pocket more, hence my optimism about Jolly.

All in all I think it's a nice problem to have...6 or 7 spots and more NFL caliber players to fill them.
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Offline beast  
#23 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 5:34:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
1. I pencilled in Jones by my own prognostication. I don't think it's much of a risk to pencil in a rookie when he was drafted that high and plays a position that was weak last year. Clearly the team won't pencil him in until he DOES earn it.

Mike McCarthy has penciled a couple 1st rounders in as starters right away including DT Harrell and OT Sherrod (at LG) and I've had a problem with it every time. I just don't like the message it sends to any of the players, make the guys come in and earn that spot. I think both of those guys lost it... I think Jennings was forced to earn it and earned as a rookie in training camp though he's learning curve or ability is clearly different than a normal rookie.


Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
2. I kind of messed up my numbers but I think they will keep 7, since I think they will work on Boyd as the eventual replacement for Pickett. However, I am also an optimist about Jolly though I know a lot of people aren't.


Yeah I'm thinking the keep 7 for a change when the norm is 6. Because Neal, Wilson and Pickett are all FAs at the end of the year. So keeping more with make the switch over easier. Unless one of them is the 7th guy than maybe just cut them now?

Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
3. Jolly has been working out in Texas, and he's not in WI yet for legal reasons...he's trying toi verify with his PO that he is legal to go and won't havfe any issues with the state. I think this whole episode has been a wakeup call for him and I am optimistic about his attitude and condition. The question is whether the long layoff will make him to rusty to make the roster, but that might, in the end, be more a matter of numbers. If they go with 6 and Boyd looks like the next Jolly (on the field) he might not make the cut.


Thanks, I didn't know all of that. That makes me feel a little better that he's staying away to make sure he's legally allowed to come instead of some other reason (I didn't know why). And totally agree with you about the wake-up call with his attitude...

But that being said he's a 30 year old man, who was a bit over weight DT while working with the team, who's been out of football for four years, and more athletic guys like CB Adam (Pac-Man) Jones and QB Mike Vick have come back and weren't the same their first year back. I think Jolly can possible get back in form... I'm just thinking it won't be in his first year back (but you never know).


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