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Offline Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:40:55 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Say what you want about the ZBS and the types of blockers it gives us, but since we've switched we have had extremely low sack numbers given up by these "smaller, mobile linemen." I don't have a problem with it in the running game either.


We weren't giving up many sacks with the old Power OL either.


Not only that, but Like Larry McCarrin said in the lion game during the radio broadcast.. "Normally the QB takes the O line out to eat, but in the packers case the O line should take Rodgers out" Rodgers is definitily doing a great job avoiding pressure. And he is making that O lines stats look a lot better than how they have played.

Our previous QB was nifty in the pocket as well.


I would just much rather a OL that punishes people so we can get a better running game in the 4th quarter. I really believe that's going to be our downfall this year unless we pick it up a bit.
Offline agopackgo4  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:44:40 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Say what you want about the ZBS and the types of blockers it gives us, but since we've switched we have had extremely low sack numbers given up by these "smaller, mobile linemen." I don't have a problem with it in the running game either.


We weren't giving up many sacks with the old Power OL either.


Not only that, but Like Larry McCarrin said in the lion game during the radio broadcast.. "Normally the QB takes the O line out to eat, but in the packers case the O line should take Rodgers out" Rodgers is definitily doing a great job avoiding pressure. And he is making that O lines stats look a lot better than how they have played.

Our previous QB was nifty in the pocket as well.


I would just much rather a OL that punishes people so we can get a better running game in the 4th quarter. I really believe that's going to be our downfall this year unless we pick it up a bit.


You think thats going to hurt us, trying to close out games? Or do you think we can get the job done with the passing game?
Offline MassPackersFan  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:54:05 PM(UTC)

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ZBS has nothing to do with pass protection unless you're saying it's a personnel issue. If so, who do you want to get rid of? Wells and Colledge? Spitz too? That basically means a completely replaced O-line within a few years. If you want to see struggling, I suggest we go that route.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:16:36 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
You think thats going to hurt us, trying to close out games? Or do you think we can get the job done with the passing game?


I think having a OL that tries to finesse its way around allows the defense to have more energy in the 4th quarter. If we had a OL that punished a DL I just think we'd have a more productive 4th quarter running attack. Mike McCarthy made a excellent counterpoint to that theory and in support of the Zone Blocking scheme. I just don't recall it right now.







" said: Go to Quoted Post
Say what you want about the ZBS and the types of blockers it gives us, but since we've switched we have had extremely low sack numbers given up by these "smaller, mobile linemen." I don't have a problem with it in the running game either.

" said: Go to Quoted Post
ZBS has nothing to do with pass protection unless you're saying it's a personnel issue. If so, who do you want to get rid of? Wells and Colledge? Spitz too? That basically means a completely replaced O-line within a few years. If you want to see struggling, I suggest we go that route.
Offline agopackgo4  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:23:18 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
You think thats going to hurt us, trying to close out games? Or do you think we can get the job done with the passing game?


I think having a OL that tries to finesse its way around allows the defense to have more energy in the 4th quarter. If we had a OL that punished a DL I just think we'd have a more productive 4th quarter running attack. Mike McCarthy made a excellent counterpoint to that theory and in support of the Zone Blocking scheme. I just don't recall it right now.

Idk the teams with great offensive lines, still seem to have something in the 4th quarter. Thats when their running backs are most effective.






" said: Go to Quoted Post
Say what you want about the ZBS and the types of blockers it gives us, but since we've switched we have had extremely low sack numbers given up by these "smaller, mobile linemen." I don't have a problem with it in the running game either.

" said: Go to Quoted Post
ZBS has nothing to do with pass protection unless you're saying it's a personnel issue. If so, who do you want to get rid of? Wells and Colledge? Spitz too? That basically means a completely replaced O-line within a few years. If you want to see struggling, I suggest we go that route.
Offline Since69  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:23:23 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Mike McCarthy made a excellent counterpoint to that theory and in support of the Zone Blocking scheme. I just don't recall it right now.


The counterpoint is that the ZBS also wears down a d-line. By the end of the game they're so bruised and wary that they start to slack off. I see the logic of it, I just don't agree with it.

Another reason I dislike it is that, against some teams, the lack of initial success may cause the offense to give up on the running game. (As we have seen.)

ZBS isn't as effective in the first half of the game as it is in the 2nd. You spend the entire first 2 or 3 quarters gaining 1 or 2 or 3 yards per carry, and then you see longer runs at the end. But you have to stick with it if you expect it to work. And against some defenses (like Dallas' - a 3-4/5-2 with younger athletic linemen) it just doesn't work at all.
Offline agopackgo4  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:23:54 PM(UTC)

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Idk the teams with great offensive lines, still seem to have something in the 4th quarter. Thats when their running backs are most effective.
Offline luigis  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:35:17 PM(UTC)

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I agree with your post a lot ZBS I think the league adjusted to the ZBS and is not as hot as it was when Denver and Atlanta were running it.
Unfortunately it seems we have drafted our OLs with the ZBS system in mind and now we have and I say this with respect a bunch of players that can just be backups in any serious team. Spitz, Colledge, Barbre, Coston, Moll none of them is an elite player.

Luis
Offline MassPackersFan  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:41:34 PM(UTC)

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Coston is gone I think. Spitz could be a quality player for a while.
Offline zerowley  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:55:37 PM(UTC)

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Again, you guys should read this: http://www.atexansblog.c...bout-that-zone-blocking/

There is a ton of false information in this thread. Zone blocking is definitely utilized in pass protection, it isn't ineffective versus certain fronts, and you don't need sub 300 lb linemen to run it.

Our problem isn't with the scheme, it's with execution and injuries. The interior is the weakest link of our team and we lost 2 projected starters before the season even started.

I don't know if you guys noticed, but even the Eagles (who have maulers for offensive linemen and one of the best running backs in the league) weren't able to consistently gain yards against the Cowboys. The Browns (who have one of the best offensive lines in the league) weren't able to gain consistent yardage against them either.
Offline MassPackersFan  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:00:48 PM(UTC)

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I didn't really see an explanation of how pass blocking differs. Nothing to compare the ZPB to in the article, that I saw.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:01:50 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Again, you guys should read this: http://www.atexansblog.c...bout-that-zone-blocking/

There is a ton of false information in this thread. Zone blocking is definitely utilized in pass protection, it isn't ineffective versus certain fronts, and you don't need sub 300 lb linemen to run it.

Our problem isn't with the scheme, it's with execution and injuries. The interior is the weakest link of our team and we lost 2 projected starters before the season even started.

I don't know if you guys noticed, but even the Eagles (who have maulers for offensive linemen and one of the best running backs in the league) weren't able to consistently gain yards against the Cowboys. The Browns (who have one of the best offensive lines in the league) weren't able to gain consistent yardage against them either.



Hey now, I'm not the one who said it has nothing to do with pass blocking after I said we haven't given up many sacks with the ZBS lol...

I also believe i mentioned that we didn't have any runs for a loss or zero gain too. Maybe that was in another thread.


My personal preference is a power OL. That's what I'm saying.
Offline MassPackersFan  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:06:02 PM(UTC)

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Actually I said the "smaller mobile linemen" were doing allright the past few years in terms of sack numbers. The ones who were hired to also execute the zone run blocking schemes.
Nowhere did I say anything about the ZBS itself not giving up many sacks. "lol"
Offline Zero2Cool  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:07:35 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Actually I said the "smaller mobile linemen" were doing allright the past few years in terms of sack numbers. The ones who were hired to also execute the zone run blocking schemes.
Nowhere did I say anything about the ZBS itself not giving up many sacks. "lol"


" said: Go to Quoted Post
Say what you want about the ZBS and the types of blockers it gives us, but since we've switched we have had extremely low sack numbers given up by these "smaller, mobile linemen." I don't have a problem with it in the running game either.


I suppose. "lol"


edit, the second quote there ... to ME ... implies we had high sack totals prior to implementing the ZBS. I feel that is not true. I could be assuming incorrectly as well to the meaning of the quote.
Offline MassPackersFan  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:14:38 PM(UTC)

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No I didn't mean that to be assumed. I just expected to give up many more sacks the past few years after losing the interior of our line, while we transitioned. I think our pass protection has been solid, for the most part. Nobody was complaining after week 1. And we've had Wells out and Spitz moved over.
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