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Offline MassPackersFan  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:44:08 PM(UTC)

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On the sideline route, it was Williams. On the deep cross, the receivers crossed pre-snap and communication was poor. The other DB signaled to Woodson to switch, and he didn't really switch - kind of ended up in no man's land. It may not be Wood's fault, but that's how it looked on tv.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:47:04 PM(UTC)

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The cross route was on Nick Collins.
Offline MassPackersFan  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:55:51 PM(UTC)

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Is that verified by the coaches? I saw Collins coming over but both corners dropped off of him very early, and Woodson wasn't covering anybody.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:59:23 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Is that verified by the coaches? I saw Collins coming over but both corners dropped off of him very early, and Woodson wasn't covering anybody.



Nope, this is actually verified by my own two perfect vision eyes. Collins went to help where help was already at and his guy slanted to the middle of the field. He tried to adjust, stumbled and the WR broke away.
Offline MassPackersFan  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:02:14 PM(UTC)

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Are we talking about the same play? You're saying Collins was supposed to have single man coverage on a WR on that play? Most of what I'm talking about happened pre-snap or right after the snap.
Offline TOPackerFan  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:04:37 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
On the sideline route, it was Williams.


I thought it was more on Rouse. Williams looked like he thought he was getting help over the top, which was unfortunate because Rouse was jogging directly sideways, about 5 yards behing Austin.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:05:29 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Are we talking about the same play? You're saying Collins was supposed to have single man coverage on a WR on that play? Most of what I'm talking about happened pre-snap or right after the snap.



Who knows?

I'm talking about the play where we had safety help on Owens with Woodson as primary defender and Collins slid over to help cover Owens as the slot WR ran down near the hash marks and angled in which is about when Collins realized he was giving triple coverage to Owens leaving #19 open in the middle of the field.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:05:54 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
On the sideline route, it was Williams.


I thought it was more on Rouse. Williams looked like he thought he was getting help over the top, which was unfortunate because Rouse was jogging directly sideways, about 5 yards behing Austin.


Possibly, but that WR did push off a bit on Williams.
Offline MassPackersFan  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:10:32 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Are we talking about the same play? You're saying Collins was supposed to have single man coverage on a WR on that play? Most of what I'm talking about happened pre-snap or right after the snap.



Who knows?

I'm talking about the play where we had safety help on Owens with Woodson as primary defender and Collins slid over to help cover Owens as the slot WR ran down near the hash marks and angled in which is about when Collins realized he was giving triple coverage to Owens leaving #19 open in the middle of the field.


Probably the same play. Who is defender #3 who you don't mention? Another CB? They basically took advantage of our game plan to have Woodson on Owens at all times and a safety over the top by creating confusion about who was covering who. I remember seeing another CB (probably Williams but I'm not sure) pointing at the WR's as they bunched and going with Owens. Woodson also sort of went with Owens. Collins, who was getting read to provide deep support on Owens was left trying to run back to the man who had no CB on him.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:13:10 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Are we talking about the same play? You're saying Collins was supposed to have single man coverage on a WR on that play? Most of what I'm talking about happened pre-snap or right after the snap.



Who knows?

I'm talking about the play where we had safety help on Owens with Woodson as primary defender and Collins slid over to help cover Owens as the slot WR ran down near the hash marks and angled in which is about when Collins realized he was giving triple coverage to Owens leaving #19 open in the middle of the field.


Probably the same play. Who is defender #3 who you don't mention? Another CB? They basically took advantage of our game plan to have Woodson on Owens at all times and a safety over the top by creating confusion about who was covering who. I remember seeing another CB (probably Williams but I'm not sure) pointing at the WR's as they bunched and going with Owens. Woodson also sort of went with Owens. Collins, who was getting read to provide deep support on Owens was left trying to run back to the man who had no CB on him.


Collins is/was defender #3. Obviously the two who were covering him were Woodson and whomever else was at Safety I would presume to be the obvious answer since it was said that we had Woodson trailing Owens with a safety over the top.
Offline MassPackersFan  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:30:22 PM(UTC)

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Checked it out again. Woodson and I think Tramon Williams are up to the line covering the two WR's on that side. Some motion towards the middle (behind Owens) by Austin creates confusion right at the snap. Williams starts running with Owens down the right sideline when he was initially lined up on Austin, before Austin crossed with TO. Woodson ends up covering nobody. Collins runs over to tackle Austin.
Offline DGB454  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:50:53 PM(UTC)

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Driver had a few catches didn't he? I think I remember a few. Ha had a drop though. He did OK.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:08:57 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Checked it out again. Woodson and I think Tramon Williams are up to the line covering the two WR's on that side. Some motion towards the middle (behind Owens) by Austin creates confusion right at the snap. Williams starts running with Owens down the right sideline when he was initially lined up on Austin, before Austin crossed with TO. Woodson ends up covering nobody. Collins runs over to tackle Austin.



Good recap.

I wonder if Woodson was supposed to be shadowing Owens no matter what and Williams thought he should be the help over the top instead of the safety?

The motion looked like it got the best of Woodson there.

I'd have to say from just quickly looking at the play again I put the fault not on Collins, but on Woodson.

I think Collins was supposed to be the cover on top of Owens while Woodson was shallow and Williams was supposed to be man to man on Austin.


I'll post a video of it when I get back home. I have some family matters to tend to and I'll be back with a video.
Offline TheEngineer  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:29:10 PM(UTC)

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There's a quote somewhere that it was in fact partially Woodson's fault, who should have sllid over to cover Austin while Collins was deep on Owens. I think it's on one of the JS Online articles.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:57:54 PM(UTC)

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[video width=640 height=480]http://packershome.com/videos/Packers.Cowboys.9.21.08.c_EDIT0000.AVI[/video]


There's the play. They didn't give us a good replay, jerks. But now I think it was on Woodson, not Collins.
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