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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:31:00 PM(UTC)
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LombardiAve wrote:
It's the offseason dog days of June, about a month removed from the NFL Draft and a month before the start of the NFL Training Camps, including that for the Green Bay Packers. So you know what that means — it's time for everyone to put out their "best of' lists. We won't disappoint here [...]
Delivering the latest and most important updates on the Green Bay Packers for your convenience.
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Offline nerdmann  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:03:42 PM(UTC)
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Majik Man was great.

He shouldn't be downgraded because of the injuries. He left it all out there on the field.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline dhazer  
#3 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 7:07:31 AM(UTC)
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I will say for most under rated I would have to go with"You may beat our Pack but you won't lick our Dickey" Lynn Dickey was a good qb and he was all we had back in the 80's.



Over rated is a hard one so i will just throw this out there and say the wr corp the past few years. People keep saying they are the best in the league we can go 6 deep blah blah blah. But seriously were they that great I don't think so.
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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
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Offline nerdmann  
#4 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:34:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
I will say for most under rated I would have to go with"You may beat our Pack but you won't lick our Dickey" Lynn Dickey was a good qb and he was all we had back in the 80's.



Over rated is a hard one so i will just throw this out there and say the wr corp the past few years. People keep saying they are the best in the league we can go 6 deep blah blah blah. But seriously were they that great I don't think so.


No, these WRs really are that good.

For underrated, I'll go with Robert Brown. Pretty decent call.

Overrated? Hmm. Robert Brooks? Great guy. Solid Character. Went over the middle. Did everything you could ask. I just don't think he was THAT great. Or let's say Antonio Freeman. Got that big contract and was never the same.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#5 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:57:07 AM(UTC)
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Oh Hell No! Not another anti-Favre diatribe! Nothing against Majkowski, who did a damn good job for the time he played, but BRETT FAVRE IS THE GREATEST PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY, and will be until Aaron Rodgers continues his own greatness long enough to be placed above Favre.

Robert Brown underrated? I guess - I was certainly around in the 80s, and I honestly don't even remember him hahahaha. I thought at first they meant Bob Brown of the Lombardi era. I sure don't think Robert Brooks is overrated, or Freeman either.

John Hadl has to go down in Packer history as the most overrated, followed closely by Brent Fullwood.

Jerry Kramer wasn't underrated like the article said, despite the unfortunate Hall of Fame thing. My definition of underrated is basically coming out of nowhere to have a long distinguished career. Would a 17th round draft pick who was MVP of two Super Bowls qualify? - THAT'S my candidate.


Bart Starr - in case anybody is reading who has no sense of history.
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Offline nerdmann  
#6 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:59:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Oh Hell No! Not another anti-Favre diatribe! Nothing against Majkowski, who did a damn good job for the time he played, but BRETT FAVRE IS THE GREATEST PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY, and will be until Aaron Rodgers continues his own greatness long enough to be placed above Favre.

Robert Brown underrated? I guess - I was certainly around in the 80s, and I honestly don't even remember him hahahaha. I thought at first they meant Bob Brown of the Lombardi era. I sure don't think Robert Brooks is overrated, or Freeman either.

John Hadl has to go down in Packer history as the most overrated, followed closely by Brent Fullwood.

Jerry Kramer wasn't underrated like the article said, despite the unfortunate Hall of Fame thing. My definition of underrated is basically coming out of nowhere to have a long distinguished career. Would a 17th round draft pick who was MVP of two Super Bowls qualify? - THAT'S my candidate.


Bart Starr - in case anybody is reading who has no sense of history.


Brett Favray was a redneck, we get it. You identify with him.

Doesn't mean he was all that great.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#7 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:22:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Brett Favray was a redneck, we get it. You identify with him.

Doesn't mean he was all that great.


I was born and raised in Wisconsin hahahaha - which I guess doesn't necessarily rule out being a redneck, but whatever. I tend to look down on most of those people hahahaha.

The sum total of Favre's career is GREATER than any other QB in history, and indisputably greater than anybody else at any position - for the CAREER. I didn't say he was absolutely the best player, just that he accomplished the most - which to me, makes him the GREATEST.

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Offline nerdmann  
#8 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:29:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I was born and raised in Wisconsin hahahaha - which I guess doesn't necessarily rule out being a redneck, but whatever. I tend to look down on most of those people hahahaha.

The sum total of Favre's career is GREATER than any other QB in history, and indisputably greater than anybody else at any position - for the CAREER. I didn't say he was absolutely the best player, just that he accomplished the most - which to me, makes him the GREATEST.



You don't think he was blackmailed to throw the dumbest, most ridiculous (and costly) INTs in the playoffs?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#9 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 7:22:27 PM(UTC)
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Favre is the 4th best Packer QB.

Compare how they played in the post season when comparing Starr to Favre.

Starr has the highest post season passer rating in the history of the league.

Favre has the most NFCCG chokes in the history of the league.

Starr also played in an era when it was tougher to throw. The rules make it easier on the WRs and the QBs.

So the NFL average for Favre's era was 12.5 higher than it was in Starr's day.

Arnie Herber was farther above average in his day than Favre was. He also has 3 consecutive championships and hold the record for most yards per completion.

If a mediocre QB has 5000 more attempts than everyone else, he should hold every record. Good and bad. That wouldn't make him a better QB.

Favre was a fairly good QB. But he does have 1800 more attempts than the next highest guy on the list and 5000 more attempts than all but 10 QBs in NFL history. The records only prove he threw it more. Not that he threw it better.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#10 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 7:33:06 PM(UTC)
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Sheesh! so much IDIOTIC Favre-hate - and from people supposed to be Packer fans! You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.
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Offline yooperfan  
#11 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:44:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
You don't think he was blackmailed to throw the dumbest, most ridiculous (and costly) INTs in the playoffs?


What?
You just threw the dumbest, most ridiculous aspersion into the thread!

Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#12 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:49:51 PM(UTC)
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It isn't Favre hate.

It is taking the hero worship blinders off and shining the glaring light of reality on the myth.

For some, no matter what reality you show them, they can't let go of the myth. Favre could bugger an unwilling goat on the 50 yard line during the super bowl half time show and some die hard fans would find a way to blame the goat.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#13 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:53:39 PM(UTC)
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Favre isn't the 5th best Packer player.

Don Hutson was the greatest ever. Maybe the greatest football player ever.

To not know that and say Favre is the greatest football player ever is a crime no Packer fan would ever commit.

A Favre fan wouldn't have a problem with it though.

Which one are you?
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#14 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:05:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Sheesh! so much IDIOTIC Favre-hate - and from people supposed to be Packer fans! You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.


Thanks. That is perfect example of how to over rate a player.

Faver is one of the most over rated players ever.

Since Joe Namath and John Elway.

Favre is about 40 on the all time list.

Tied with Trent Green.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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Offline nerdmann  
#15 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:32:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
What?
You just threw the dumbest, most ridiculous aspersion into the thread!



Do you think he laid down for Strahan to get the sack record?
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Offline porky88  
#16 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:39:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
Favre is the 4th best Packer QB.

Compare how they played in the post season when comparing Starr to Favre.

Starr has the highest post season passer rating in the history of the league.

Favre has the most NFCCG chokes in the history of the league.

Starr also played in an era when it was tougher to throw. The rules make it easier on the WRs and the QBs.

So the NFL average for Favre's era was 12.5 higher than it was in Starr's day.

Arnie Herber was farther above average in his day than Favre was. He also has 3 consecutive championships and hold the record for most yards per completion.

If a mediocre QB has 5000 more attempts than everyone else, he should hold every record. Good and bad. That wouldn't make him a better QB.

Favre was a fairly good QB. But he does have 1800 more attempts than the next highest guy on the list and 5000 more attempts than all but 10 QBs in NFL history. The records only prove he threw it more. Not that he threw it better.

It's hard to knock Favre for interceptions and then praise Arnie Herber, who threw 106 interceptions and only 81 touchdowns. He also attempted 1,175 career passes. Favre attempted 10,169 passes. Based on the pattern, Herber would have over 900 interceptions by his 10,169th pass attempt. That's nearly 600 more than Favre's 336.

Comparing the eras (and players) is impossible considering the game was far less complex. Some high school sophomores probably can run a faster 40 than many of the players during that era. Rob Gronkowski also would probably play nose tackle and guard. There are a few exceptions (namely Don Hutson), but that’s why they’re exceptions and not the rule.

Another obstacle is the lack of weight training by the players, and the fact many probably were smokers. Regardless, the biggest omission people make in comparing distant eras to today's age is race relations. Herber won championships in the 30s. Jackie Robinson hadn't even broken through the barrier yet. To recap, the players didn’t train, they weren’t as healthy, and prejudices prevented the league from fielding the best players.

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#17 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 5:17:04 AM(UTC)
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Again in this thread, there is a whole lot of IDIOCY being posted against Favre by some DISGRACES to be called Packer fans.

The guy may not have been the sharpest knife in the drawer. He may have shown some stupidity and/or disloyalty and/or whatever at the end of his career, but WHILE HE WAS A PACKER he had a career unparalleled in NFL history. We - including the shitheads trashing him if they are old enough, had fifteen wonderful years of winning football, thanks in large part to Brett Favre. That far outweighs whatever petty shit at the end, and his records for yardage and touchdowns along with the consecutive game streak say that NOBODY in NFL history ever had a better career.

I'll be the first to say Aaron Rodgers is a better player right now than Favre was at his best, and that Rodgers likely will surpass Favre as the greatest in history, but for these sick trolls and shitheads to deny the undeniable is just plain disgraceful.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#18 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 5:57:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Again in this thread, there is a whole lot of IDIOCY being posted against Favre by some DISGRACES to be called Packer fans.

The guy may not have been the sharpest knife in the drawer. He may have shown some stupidity and/or disloyalty and/or whatever at the end of his career, but WHILE HE WAS A PACKER he had a career unparalleled in NFL history. We - including the shitheads trashing him if they are old enough, had fifteen wonderful years of winning football, thanks in large part to Brett Favre. That far outweighs whatever petty shit at the end, and his records for yardage and touchdowns along with the consecutive game streak say that NOBODY in NFL history ever had a better career.

I'll be the first to say Aaron Rodgers is a better player right now than Favre was at his best, and that Rodgers likely will surpass Favre as the greatest in history, but for these sick trolls and shitheads to deny the undeniable is just plain disgraceful.


I don't think anyone is minimizing how good of a player Brett Favre was. Rather, more so just saying he was good, but he also played more games than most and threw more than most, which is an efficient way to get "all time total" records.

Being extremely durable doesn't mean you were the greatest quarterback in the NFL. It means you were extremely durable and for that, the Packers were immensely lucky.

One gripe against Brett Favre is the post season play. Gun slinging is exciting, but it's not how you should play "win or go home" games and we fans know exactly why.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline DakotaT  
#19 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 6:26:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Oh Hell No! Not another anti-Favre diatribe! Nothing against Majkowski, who did a damn good job for the time he played, but BRETT FAVRE IS THE GREATEST PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY, and will be until Aaron Rodgers continues his own greatness long enough to be placed above Favre.



I didn't know you were a slurper too. Favre was great, but he choked too much to be considered the Greatest Player Ever. And when you consider his character, well then that takes him down a few more notches. Brett Favre is the classic big man on campus egomaniac.
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Offline DakotaT  
#20 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 6:32:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Again in this thread, there is a whole lot of IDIOCY being posted against Favre by some DISGRACES to be called Packer fans.

The guy may not have been the sharpest knife in the drawer. He may have shown some stupidity and/or disloyalty and/or whatever at the end of his career, but WHILE HE WAS A PACKER he had a career unparalleled in NFL history. We - including the shitheads trashing him if they are old enough, had fifteen wonderful years of winning football, thanks in large part to Brett Favre. That far outweighs whatever petty shit at the end, and his records for yardage and touchdowns along with the consecutive game streak say that NOBODY in NFL history ever had a better career.

I'll be the first to say Aaron Rodgers is a better player right now than Favre was at his best, and that Rodgers likely will surpass Favre as the greatest in history, but for these sick trolls and shitheads to deny the undeniable is just plain disgraceful.


My God are you a sad man. We Packer fans can do with Favre what we want. The guy deserves all his accolades but he also has EARNED all of his criticisms. Brett Favre in not a demigod, he was a great football player, with many visible flaws.
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Offline earthquake  
#21 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 8:07:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Again in this thread, there is a whole lot of IDIOCY being posted against Favre by some DISGRACES to be called Packer fans.

The guy may not have been the sharpest knife in the drawer. He may have shown some stupidity and/or disloyalty and/or whatever at the end of his career, but WHILE HE WAS A PACKER he had a career unparalleled in NFL history. We - including the shitheads trashing him if they are old enough, had fifteen wonderful years of winning football, thanks in large part to Brett Favre. That far outweighs whatever petty shit at the end, and his records for yardage and touchdowns along with the consecutive game streak say that NOBODY in NFL history ever had a better career.

I'll be the first to say Aaron Rodgers is a better player right now than Favre was at his best, and that Rodgers likely will surpass Favre as the greatest in history, but for these sick trolls and shitheads to deny the undeniable is just plain disgraceful.


Bart Starr
Joe Montana
Tom Brady

If you're an honest, objective fan, these three players were better quarterbacks than Brett Favre. You don't have to look far to figure out why; postseason success.

Favre isn't the greatest packer quarterback, or packer player, let along player ever in the league. Star was 9-1 in the playoffs, 2 superbowl wins, 3 straight championships and 5 total championships. Hutson dominated the league like no player has ever done or likely ever will again, he was Jerry Rice before Jerry Rice, but he was even better comparatively than Rice.

Montana won 4 Superbowls with an overall playoff record of 23-16.

Brady is 3-5 in Superbowls (I realize he hasn't been great recently in the playoffs, but getting to 5 in itself is HUGE) for a playoff record of 24-17.

The greatest QBs do not turn the ball over when the game is on the line, this is why Favre will never be considered the greatest. He did many great things, his longevity and durability was certainly the greatest of any player to ever play the game. But greatest QB? No, not even close. He may have been the most exciting, entertaining player to watch. Unfortunately that excitement lead to disappointment and heartache at the end of the season more often than not.

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Offline OlHoss1884  
#22 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 10:19:21 AM(UTC)
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On the subject of Favre, it's hard to compare eras. Unitas threw for 40K yards in an era before the 5 yard chuck rule, before QB protection rules, before tackles could start a step back, and when QB were expected to call the plays. While I would certainly list Favre in the top 10, I would not say he was the best. The most entertaining I admit, and his style fit a team that needed to take risks to win for much of his career. Most importantly it was nice ot to have to worry about the position for so long while my Bears fan friends were lamenting the Cade McNowns, Kordell Stewarts, Rick Mirers and Dave Kriegs of the world. Hell the most effective QB they've had in 30 years made a great kicking tee recovery boy for the Favre-led champs.

For overrated/underrated I define these as whether a guy was recognized for being as good s he was or believed to be great despite that he really wasn't. A prospect who comes with hype but doesn't pan out doesn't make that list, nor does someone who comes from nowhere to succeed, as they get "rated" once they are noticed/recognized.

Underrated I have to agree on Lynn Dickey. Never got his due because of all the 41-38 losses the team seemed to have during his time, but to go back even farther I might say Leroy Caffey, who was a terrific LB but overshadowed by his two HOF linemates in Nitschke and Robinson.

overrated I might say Hornung. As good as he was he had a lot of HOFers like Starr, Taylor, Ringo, Gregg, and Kramer making him look good. Surrounded by that cast I would have expected his numbers to be a lot more eye-popping than they are, not that I don't think he's a clear HOFer in any case.

One of the things about having a team in a market the size of GB is that you almost never see overrated players. Bigger markets tend to get a lot more hype for their stars, so guys like Phil Simms, Mark Gastineau, Brian Urlacher, Eric Dickerson and Michael Irvin go from being great players to being legends. Players in smaller, less prominent markets tend to go under the radar a lot more often like Sean Alexander, Ronde Barber, Sam Mills, John Randle or Bert Jones. I bet most of us could a lot more easily come up with a list of 10 underrated Packers than overrated ones.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein
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Offline nerdmann  
#23 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 11:04:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
On the subject of Favre, it's hard to compare eras. Unitas threw for 40K yards in an era before the 5 yard chuck rule, before QB protection rules, before tackles could start a step back, and when QB were expected to call the plays. While I would certainly list Favre in the top 10, I would not say he was the best. The most entertaining I admit, and his style fit a team that needed to take risks to win for much of his career. Most importantly it was nice ot to have to worry about the position for so long while my Bears fan friends were lamenting the Cade McNowns, Kordell Stewarts, Rick Mirers and Dave Kriegs of the world. Hell the most effective QB they've had in 30 years made a great kicking tee recovery boy for the Favre-led champs.

For overrated/underrated I define these as whether a guy was recognized for being as good s he was or believed to be great despite that he really wasn't. A prospect who comes with hype but doesn't pan out doesn't make that list, nor does someone who comes from nowhere to succeed, as they get "rated" once they are noticed/recognized.

Underrated I have to agree on Lynn Dickey. Never got his due because of all the 41-38 losses the team seemed to have during his time, but to go back even farther I might say Leroy Caffey, who was a terrific LB but overshadowed by his two HOF linemates in Nitschke and Robinson.

overrated I might say Hornung. As good as he was he had a lot of HOFers like Starr, Taylor, Ringo, Gregg, and Kramer making him look good. Surrounded by that cast I would have expected his numbers to be a lot more eye-popping than they are, not that I don't think he's a clear HOFer in any case.

One of the things about having a team in a market the size of GB is that you almost never see overrated players. Bigger markets tend to get a lot more hype for their stars, so guys like Phil Simms, Mark Gastineau, Brian Urlacher, Eric Dickerson and Michael Irvin go from being great players to being legends. Players in smaller, less prominent markets tend to go under the radar a lot more often like Sean Alexander, Ronde Barber, Sam Mills, John Randle or Bert Jones. I bet most of us could a lot more easily come up with a list of 10 underrated Packers than overrated ones.



As for Dickey, they had a GREAT offense. Problem there was, the defense couldn't stop anybody. So yeah, he's gonna be underrated.

As for Paul Hornung, Vince Lombardi himself said, "When the game is on the line, Paul Hornung is the greatest player I've ever seen." That's good enough for me.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline porky88  
#24 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 12:18:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: earthquake Go to Quoted Post
Bart Starr
Joe Montana
Tom Brady

If you're an honest, objective fan, these three players were better quarterbacks than Brett Favre. You don't have to look far to figure out why; postseason success.

Favre isn't the greatest packer quarterback, or packer player, let along player ever in the league. Star was 9-1 in the playoffs, 2 superbowl wins, 3 straight championships and 5 total championships. Hutson dominated the league like no player has ever done or likely ever will again, he was Jerry Rice before Jerry Rice, but he was even better comparatively than Rice.

Montana won 4 Superbowls with an overall playoff record of 23-16.

Brady is 3-5 in Superbowls (I realize he hasn't been great recently in the playoffs, but getting to 5 in itself is HUGE) for a playoff record of 24-17.

The greatest QBs do not turn the ball over when the game is on the line, this is why Favre will never be considered the greatest. He did many great things, his longevity and durability was certainly the greatest of any player to ever play the game. But greatest QB? No, not even close. He may have been the most exciting, entertaining player to watch. Unfortunately that excitement lead to disappointment and heartache at the end of the season more often than not.

I don't think most consider Favre the greatest quarterback in history. I don't see that too much. Brady certainly surpassed him, and I don’t think any football historian ever placed him above Joe Montana. I think people have forgotten how good he was, actually. It's a shame because his best was better than most. There was a span (94-98) when he played the position unbelievably well. You never hear about those years in regards to Favre anymore.

It’s also become a common theme to blame him for every playoff defeat in his era. I’ve watched these games multiple times and that’s simply a false analysis. Yes, bash away at the ‘07 and ‘09 championship games, as those were awful throws, but there were other things go on in most of his playoff losses.

Favre fans are quick to defend him. I know first hand. I criticized quite a bit in ‘06 and took some heat on the old site from some people that would go on to hate the man in ‘09. Still, as quick as Favre fans are emotional in defending him, his critics are also emotional in their critique. Labeling him the most overrated Packer in history, as the NFL Network segment did, is among those examples.
Offline OlHoss1884  
#25 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 12:25:56 PM(UTC)
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I will add this to why Favre was not overrated: because for 15 years or so his being in the huddle meant almost no game was out of reach. He had an amazing ability to make some crazy plays (like that cross field TD pass in Detroit in that playoff game), an impact few individual players can have. Did he lose a lot of games with his antics? Of course he did, but he more than made up for it with the number of victories he pulled out of his a$$ over the years as well.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein
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