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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#21 Posted : Friday, June 28, 2013 5:50:31 PM(UTC)
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macbob said: Go to Quoted Post
And for the Madden Football crowd, we had 27 passing plays and only 3 running plays in the entire first half, scoring all of 0 points.


So, would running more times like Benson did in the final drive have helped them score in the first half?
Offline nerdmann  
#22 Posted : Friday, June 28, 2013 6:25:32 PM(UTC)
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Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
So, would running more times like Benson did in the final drive have helped them score in the first half?


Iirc,Lang came out and criticized the lack of running, stating that the DL was free to just "pin their ears back" and attack the QB.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#23 Posted : Friday, June 28, 2013 8:33:21 PM(UTC)
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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Iirc,Lang came out and criticized the lack of running, stating that the DL was free to just "pin their ears back" and attack the QB.


Just choosing to run doesn't get any yards. You have to be able to actually run. And for that you need a RB that can run for more than -5 yards when you are trying to run out the clock.

Lang was absolutely right. The running game was awful. But giving the ball to Benson obviously wasn't the answer. Using the last drive of the Seattle game where we ran it 3 times for -3 yards and only because Kuhn got 2 as an example of running in spite of sucking at it.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#24 Posted : Friday, June 28, 2013 8:56:28 PM(UTC)
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macbob said: Go to Quoted Post
And for the Madden Football crowd, we had 27 passing plays and only 3 running plays in the entire first half, scoring all of 0 points.


You could blame the sacks, you could blame the running game and you could blame the penalties.

At the rate they were gaining yards running the ball, taking 12 plays away from passing in exchange for 24 rushing yards may or may not have helped. I am going to lean towards not.

Running more in the second half was not the only adjustment they made.

In the first half they ran some "WCO running plays". Some of the running game falls under the passing plays category. The short dump off plays to the backs is a suplement to the running game and take its function in the West Coast Offense. For example, a shovel pass is counted as a pass, but is essentially a draw. The only difference is where the Back is when the QB tosses the ball. If he is behind the QB, it counts as a run. If he is not behind the QB, it counts as a pass. Even if it is the same play, the same kind of toss and the same function in the game.

It is designed to slow the pass rush down and get the ball to the backs in space so they can get the D reacting instead of attacking. Like a running play.

They probably did that because Benson was having so much trouble getting out of the backfield. And they had no one else.
Offline macbob  
#25 Posted : Saturday, June 29, 2013 8:40:49 AM(UTC)
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Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
So, would running more times like Benson did in the final drive have helped them score in the first half?


Our 5 drives in the first half all ended in punts and went for a combined total of 82 yards. COMBINED. And since our 3 runs in that half gained 24 yards that meant we had all of 58 yards passing at half time.

In the second half we had 4 drives for 214 yards total offense, with drives of 70, 66, and 81 (that one drive itself only 1 yard less than our TOTAL offense in the first half). Our 4 drives ended in 2 FGs and a TD before that final 3 & out in the last two minutes.

In the 3rd quarter, Benson ran the ball 10 times for 49 yards and we scored 6 points on the two drives. We took the lead in the 4th Qtr for the first time on the only TD we scored in the game, a 1 yard run by Benson.

Abandoning the run in the first half made us one-dimensional and allowed the Seattle D to concentrate on our passing game, resulting in 58 yards passing and 82 yards COMBINED total offense at half time. Only 60 of our 214 yards in the second half were on the ground, but running the ball opened up our passing game by forcing the Seattle D to honor the run.

So yes, I'd say running the ball more in the first half would have helped us score. It would have been hard to do worse.
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DoddPower on 6/29/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#26 Posted : Saturday, June 29, 2013 12:27:18 PM(UTC)
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Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
Just choosing to run doesn't get any yards. You have to be able to actually run. And for that you need a RB that can run for more than -5 yards when you are trying to run out the clock.

Lang was absolutely right. The running game was awful. But giving the ball to Benson obviously wasn't the answer. Using the last drive of the Seattle game where we ran it 3 times for -3 yards and only because Kuhn got 2 as an example of running in spite of sucking at it.


Maybe. But I thought Benson was pretty good at getting what was there.

The Niners have an elite Dline. But that doesn't mean they don't have to play. Yeah, maybe they can hold our guy to 3 ypc, but that doesn't mean they don't have to TRY to do so.
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DoddPower on 6/29/2013(UTC)
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#27 Posted : Saturday, June 29, 2013 4:29:39 PM(UTC)
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macbob said: Go to Quoted Post
And for the Madden Football crowd, we had 27 passing plays and only 3 running plays in the entire first half, scoring all of 0 points.


I am not saying we shouldn't run. I am saying they couldn't.

The last drive had 3 runs and it wasn't any better than the first half. Choosing to run doesn't magically generate yards, first downs and points.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#28 Posted : Saturday, June 29, 2013 4:32:08 PM(UTC)
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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Maybe. But I thought Benson was pretty good at getting what was there.

The Niners have an elite Dline. But that doesn't mean they don't have to play. Yeah, maybe they can hold our guy to 3 ypc, but that doesn't mean they don't have to TRY to do so.


It was actually 2 per carry.

If we lined up and needed 3 yards to get a first down, score or run out the clock,

we couldn't get it.

We have won a couple games without much running. Like the super bowl, for example.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#29 Posted : Saturday, June 29, 2013 5:24:30 PM(UTC)
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macbob said: Go to Quoted Post
Our 5 drives in the first half all ended in punts and went for a combined total of 82 yards. COMBINED. And since our 3 runs in that half gained 24 yards that meant we had all of 58 yards passing at half time.

In the second half we had 4 drives for 214 yards total offense, with drives of 70, 66, and 81 (that one drive itself only 1 yard less than our TOTAL offense in the first half). Our 4 drives ended in 2 FGs and a TD before that final 3 & out in the last two minutes.

In the 3rd quarter, Benson ran the ball 10 times for 49 yards and we scored 6 points on the two drives. We took the lead in the 4th Qtr for the first time on the only TD we scored in the game, a 1 yard run by Benson.

Abandoning the run in the first half made us one-dimensional and allowed the Seattle D to concentrate on our passing game, resulting in 58 yards passing and 82 yards COMBINED total offense at half time. Only 60 of our 214 yards in the second half were on the ground, but running the ball opened up our passing game by forcing the Seattle D to honor the run.

So yes, I'd say running the ball more in the first half would have helped us score. It would have been hard to do worse.


The 3 runs in the first half included a 20 yard run by Cobb. Leaving Benson with 2 per.

Whenever Benson got the ball, he got little or nothing. Including the dump off passes.

On the TD scoring drive, other than the TD run, Benson had 2 runs for -3 yards in the other 16 plays. You can give him credit for the TD run, but giving him any credit for the running game making being the difference is total BS.

You are saying the only adjustment they made in the second half was running the ball. Not in protecting Rodgers better.

Running in the 4th quarter didn't help us generated a critical first down. So you can say "if" all you want to conjecture how effective more running might have been. But when they really needed the yards, running DID let them down. No ifs about it.
Offline nerdmann  
#30 Posted : Saturday, June 29, 2013 11:01:19 PM(UTC)
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Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
I am not saying we shouldn't run. I am saying they couldn't.

The last drive had 3 runs and it wasn't any better than the first half. Choosing to run doesn't magically generate yards, first downs and points.


Part of the running game is cumulative. You have to wear a defense down. Normally this comes with Time of Possession, if your coach is even concerned about that sort of thing.
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yooperfan on 6/30/2013(UTC), DoddPower on 6/30/2013(UTC)
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