Discussion Board
Welcome Guest! You can login or register. Login or Register.

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
OlHoss1884  
#1 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:14:37 AM(UTC)
Specifically, he said that Eli will be regarded as better than Peyton because he has more rings. Jamie Dukes has echoed this asking rhetorically "which is a better indicator of greatness, MVP's or Championships?"

I for one am getting really sick of this stupid argument. Championships do NOT determine who is the better QB. They are, like anything else, a factor, but far from the only one. A great QB with a terrible defense will not win championships. Likewise an average QB with a great defense CAN win a championship.

Marino
Kelly
Tarkenton
Fouts
Moon

I will take them over Hostetler, Johnson, Dilfer, Williams, McMahaon any given Sunday. The whole count the rings thing is the kind of dumb argument people like Steelers fans make to rationalize why Bradshaw is supposed to be better than anyone.

I would submit that anyone who resorts to that argument, all other things being clearly unequal, is already admitting they a) have lost the argument and b) really don't know football.
Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:39:19 AM(UTC)
I don't think I seen Terry "4 rings" Bradshaw mentioned ...
OlHoss1884  
#3 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:23:36 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't think I seen Terry "4 rings" Bradshaw mentioned ...


In what context? The 5 I listed never won a upper Bowl, the second 5 did. In the case of Bradshaw there is an argument to be made that he was an all time great. In my recollection he was there with Stabler as the best AFC QB during the 70s. I am just saying that rings are not the penultimate argument in determining who was the best, unless all else is kind of equal. Based on that logic, Robert Horry was better than Jordan, and Luc Longley was better than Wilt Chamberlain. Or Tim Wakefield was better than Cy Young and Scooter Rizzuto was better than Babe Ruth.

Wade  
#4 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:33:50 AM(UTC)
Winning a ring doesn't make a "great" quarterback. Winning three or more does.

Dilfer wasn't. Williams wasn't. Starr was. Unitas was.

Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me.

I do know I'd rather have a team led by Starr or Unitas or, yes, a team led by Bradshaw, than a team led by Marino. Marino to me is the poster boy for the proposition that "stats don't make greatness."
Wade  
#5 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:36:05 AM(UTC)
Oh, and:
1. Tiki Barber was not a great player.
2. Tiki Barber is not someone whose opinion is worth a whole heckuva lot.

[grin1]
OlHoss1884  
#6 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 7:24:21 AM(UTC)
Though I would add this...Marino was no doubt a great quarterback. His teams suffered from mediocre defense through much of his tenure, especially toward the later part of Shula's career, when he wouldn't can his DC (Tom Olividatti) out of loyalty.

To me I think it comes down to who do you pick to be your guy in an all time draft to build your team around and I think most people would have the 5 I mentioned in addition to guys you mention somewhere in that list. And I doubt many of them would honestly pick an Eli Manning ahead of any of them, clutch in the playoffs or not.
TheKanataThrilla  
#7 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 4:56:44 PM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Winning a ring doesn't make a "great" quarterback. Winning three or more does.

Dilfer wasn't. Williams wasn't. Starr was. Unitas was.

Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me.

I do know I'd rather have a team led by Starr or Unitas or, yes, a team led by Bradshaw, than a team led by Marino. Marino to me is the poster boy for the proposition that "stats don't make greatness."


I don't buy that at all. That is like saying John Elway was a greater QB in the twilight of his career than in his prime based on the fact he finally won the Superbowl and finally had a complete team in front of him and a little luck.
Wade  
#8 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:09:10 PM(UTC)
TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't buy that at all. That is like saying John Elways was a greater QB in the twilight of his career than in his prime based on the fact he finally won the Superbowl and finally had a complete team in front of him and a little luck.


Actually, I didn't say anything re: Elway at all. I said that one super bowl win was not enough, by itself to qualify as "great". And I said three or more did.

Indeed, part of the reason I was silent on how to interpret "two SB wins" was my not wanting to speak to Elway. To my mind, Elway was overrated throughout his career. Despite his HOF position and his general acclaim, I wouldn't put him in the top 25 list.

TheKanataThrilla  
#9 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:21:03 PM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Actually, I didn't say anything re: Elway at all. I said that one super bowl win was not enough, by itself to qualify as "great". And I said three or more did.

Indeed, part of the reason I was silent on how to interpret "two SB wins" was my not wanting to speak to Elway. To my mind, Elway was overrated throughout his career. Despite his HOF position and his general acclaim, I wouldn't put him in the top 25 list.



No you said "Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me." To me it is not, because Elway was fucking great way before he won a Superbowl.

Top 25 what? Of all time? QBs?
OlHoss1884  
#10 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 6:20:35 PM(UTC)
Here's my list, in no particular order:

Graham
Baugh
Luckman
Unitas
Starr
P. Manning
Brady
Staubach
Marino
Elway
Bradshaw
Aikman
Favre
Tarkenton
Montana
Young
Fouts
Kelly
Moon
Stabler
Herber
Brees
Layne
Van Brocklin
and I reserve the last spot for A-Rod, but might be too short a career at this point to count.
Rss Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error

Fan Shout
Smokey (22-Aug) : LOL !
Tezzy (21-Aug) : it's a trap
Zero2Cool (21-Aug) : check your PM's please
Zero2Cool (21-Aug) : steveishere
Zero2Cool (21-Aug) : Great, Goodell was extended????
Smokey (21-Aug) : NOT A FORUM MEMBER ? JOIN US AND SHARE YOUR VIEWS !
Zero2Cool (20-Aug) : two slots open...time is ticking for those two.
Tezzy (20-Aug) : Did you fill?
Cheesey (20-Aug) : Dang Wayne, I'm trying not to cry. But it's a losing battle. My heart aches for you.
Zero2Cool (20-Aug) : You want in, you're in. :-)
Zero2Cool (20-Aug) : Need just one person to join PH fantasy league so we have ten. Not chasing everyone around anymore.
wpr (20-Aug) : Liver, pizza, brushed, short walk, ear scratches sat on my lap.
Smokey (19-Aug) : love, love, love .
gbguy20 (19-Aug) : lots of tasty people food, car rides, go to a lake, just something out of the usual and lots of attention
gbguy20 (19-Aug) : just make sure you give him an awesome weekend before Monday comes.
Cheesey (19-Aug) : We had to do that 2 years ago to our 15 year old beloved Seth. It's never easy. I'm here for you if you want to talk.
Cheesey (19-Aug) : Wayne, I know how hard that is. Loving them enough to let them go. I''m so sorry!
buckeyepackfan (19-Aug) : Sorry to hear wpr. I had to do the same several years ago. He also was 15. Just know you are easing his pain.
Smokey (19-Aug) : HELLO DAVE !
wpr (19-Aug) : He's a mix. Shepard, Aussy Blue, Border Collie
Porforis (18-Aug) : Good grief... You're the third person I know this week that's had to do that. I'm sorry :(
Zero2Cool (18-Aug) : damn that sucks Wayne... sorry buddy
beast (18-Aug) : Sorry wpr :(
Smokey (18-Aug) : I love dogs, what is the dogs breed ?
wpr (18-Aug) : I spoke with my vet. I am going to put my 16 yo dog down on Mon.
rabidgopher04 (18-Aug) : Coincidentally when I saw the Red Sox in Boston it was against the Brewers.
wpr (17-Aug) : Good idea Z.
wpr (17-Aug) : I tapped my savings to spend time with my son.
Zero2Cool (17-Aug) : I'll have to find a time when Brewers play Red Sox at Fenway. Both teams, one location!
wpr (17-Aug) : Why do you need to be a jerk? I live in a modest home. My kids are out of the house. My wife and I both work. My son paid for most of it. I
Smokey (17-Aug) : Yes, Insurance Agents do well . You must feel so superior .
rabidgopher04 (17-Aug) : Fenway is electric. Great place to watch baseball. I've been a couple times.
wpr (17-Aug) : A few have it already. Most have to save it to do things.
wpr (17-Aug) : Yes Smokey, life takes money to do anything.
Smokey (16-Aug) : IF THEY HAVE THE MONEY !
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2017 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
SEAHAWKS
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 7:30 PM
at Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Oct 8 @ 3:25 PM
at Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 15 @ 12:00 PM
at Vikings
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 AM
- BYE -
Monday, Nov 6 @ 7:30 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
RAVENS
Sunday, Nov 26 @ 7:30 PM
at Steelers
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 10 @ 12:00 PM
at Browns
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
at Panthers
Saturday, Dec 23 @ 7:30 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 12:00 PM
at Lions
Think About It
Think About It
Recent Topics
7m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Barfarn

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Smokey

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

19h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

19h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

21h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Smokey

22-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

22-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

22-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / DarkaneRules

22-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / DarkaneRules

22-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

Headlines