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Offline wpr  
#1 Posted : Monday, August 19, 2013 6:10:58 PM(UTC)
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CheeseheadTV wrote:
There are arguably eight defensive linemen worth keeping on the Packers roster this season, but can they really afford to keep both Jolly and Boyd around?



Quote:
But it’s extremely difficult to see the Packers keep any more than seven defensive linemen on their roster this season, and even seven would seem to be pushing the limit for a team that––more often than not––utilizes only two defensive linemen on the field at any one time.

Green Bay would appear to have six defensive linemen that are near locks for roster spots. First round draft choice Datone Jones is obviously one of them. Veterans B.J. Raji and Ryan Pickett are also set in stone.

Beyond the top three, C.J. Wilson, Mike Neal and Mike Daniels are all good bets to be part of the defensive line rotation. That leaves Jolly and Boyd competing for a seventh spot on the Packers defensive line.
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Offline wpr  
#2 Posted : Monday, August 19, 2013 6:19:14 PM(UTC)
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Jolly makes the team and Boyd the PS. Whether they can KEEP Boyd is another matter.
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yooperfan on 8/20/2013(UTC)
Offline Gaycandybacon  
#3 Posted : Monday, August 19, 2013 6:29:03 PM(UTC)
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Imo it's Wilson vs Boyd. I have a hard time seeing us cutting Jolly by the way he's been playing.
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wpr on 8/19/2013(UTC), Mucky Tundra on 8/19/2013(UTC), DakotaT on 8/19/2013(UTC), nerdmann on 8/19/2013(UTC), Dulak on 8/19/2013(UTC), yooperfan on 8/20/2013(UTC), SINCITYCHEEZE on 8/20/2013(UTC), Laser Gunns on 8/20/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#4 Posted : Monday, August 19, 2013 7:41:08 PM(UTC)
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I would not be surprised to see Neal cut. We keep both Jolly and Boyd. Neal was an experiment that just is not panning out IMO. He is the most expendable of our DL group listed there. We keep 7.
Offline nerdmann  
#5 Posted : Monday, August 19, 2013 8:37:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I would not be surprised to see Neal cut. We keep both Jolly and Boyd. Neal was an experiment that just is not panning out IMO. He is the most expendable of our DL group listed there. We keep 7.


This could be more possible than people realize.

Hard to say what the coaches are thinking, but a number of people in the know have suggested it.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline steveishere  
#6 Posted : Monday, August 19, 2013 8:47:05 PM(UTC)
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I don't see Neal getting cut unless he gets injured. He's still a decent DL pass rusher which we need and they've got him working with the 2s at OLB. I can't really say he's looked worse than Moses and Palmer so I see him working with the 2s there as legit.

Heck I would rather have Neal as a back up OLB and cut Moses and/or Palmer than cut Boyd, Jolly, or Wilson.
Offline DarkaneRules  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:28:13 AM(UTC)
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Let the best man of right now win!
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Offline PackerTraxx  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:12:51 AM(UTC)
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TT going to earn his money this year...hope he makes the right decisions. This year has to be some of the toughest cuts since he's been here.
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wpr on 8/20/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:24:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
I don't see Neal getting cut unless he gets injured. He's still a decent DL pass rusher which we need and they've got him working with the 2s at OLB. I can't really say he's looked worse than Moses and Palmer so I see him working with the 2s there as legit.

Heck I would rather have Neal as a back up OLB and cut Moses and/or Palmer than cut Boyd, Jolly, or Wilson.


That's entirely possible. Maybe they are really serious about Neal at LB and give him 6-8 games or so to work into a role there. I just wonder about his lower weight and what that may do to his effectiveness on the DL. I also wonder if the talent we have added on both the DL and at LB may be eclipsing that of Neal, making him a potential odd man out.

I've got nothing against him other than his rather low production and low availability since being drafted, for whatever reason, injury/suspension. I thought he showed improvement last season, but it was nothing consistent, nor anything that impacted big games for us down the stretch.

I'm just wondering what their real plan is for him. I'd rather keep both Wilson and Boyd. Jolly is a lock. 8 DL seems like overkill, but maybe their plans for him at LB are more involved...?
Offline wpr  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:27:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
That's entirely possible. Maybe they are really serious about Neal at LB and give him 6-8 games or so to work into a role there. I just wonder about his lower weight and what that may do to his effectiveness on the DL. I also wonder if the talent we have added on both the DL and at LB may be eclipsing that of Neal, making him a potential odd man out.

I've got nothing against him other than his rather low production and low availability since being drafted, for whatever reason, injury/suspension. I thought he showed improvement last season, but it was nothing consistent, nor anything that impacted big games for us down the stretch.

I'm just wondering what their real plan is for him. I'd rather keep both Wilson and Boyd. Jolly is a lock. 8 DL seems like overkill, but maybe their plans for him at LB are more involved...?


there are so many lbers as well. It seems like a stacked house. They better be a top 10 defense.
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Offline beast  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:48:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
This could be more possible than people realize.

Hard to say what the coaches are thinking, but a number of people in the know have suggested it.


Yes in the know... but in the know of what? Tongue (just kidding)


kiss football


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Gaycandybacon on 8/20/2013(UTC)
Offline Gaycandybacon  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:05:48 AM(UTC)
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There's no way they cut Neal, to much raw talent and versatility. Probably one of our best pass rushers on the team.
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DoddPower on 8/20/2013(UTC)
Offline PackerTraxx  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:15:58 AM(UTC)
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Maybe somebody will offer a first round...just dreaming.
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wpr on 8/20/2013(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:43:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
There's no way they cut Neal, to much raw talent and versatility. Probably one of our best pass rushers on the team.


When healthy... when has that raw talent netted him production on the field?

The Neal decision, in my opinion, has to be focused on his health right now verses that risk that he can remain healthy. His track record has to be a chief concern in keeping him over a developing player without the same risk factor and track record.

Neal to me over his time here in Green Bay reminds me of that girl winks at you in the hallway but bolts at record speed when you approach to ask her out. Looks inviting but disappears when the rubber meets the road.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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wpr on 8/20/2013(UTC), play2win on 8/20/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:14:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
When healthy... when has that raw talent netted him production on the field?

The Neal decision, in my opinion, has to be focused on his health right now verses that risk that he can remain healthy. His track record has to be a chief concern in keeping him over a developing player without the same risk factor and track record.

Neal to me over his time here in Green Bay reminds me of that girl winks at you in the hallway but bolts at record speed when you approach to ask her out. Looks inviting but disappears when the rubber meets the road.


I could not agree more. Neal had 1 sack against IND in his first game back from suspension in a loss. He had 1 against AZ in a blowout win (31-17). 1.5 against CHI, with an incredibly shitty OL, and 1 against TEN in another blowout win (55-7). Nothing in 2 playoff games, but 1 assist on a tackle. He had 11 combined tackles in the 11 regular season games he played. Combined. 8 Total with 3 Assists.

Mike Neal has not really shown himself to be much of a sack artist. I mean, not at all. He is one player who needs to play insanely well these next two preseason games, IMO. But, we don't know how much they are looking to utilized him at LB. Capers may like to change looks with him in there, on the fly. That seems to be the only positive in this that might be keeping him around. Otherwise, I see Wilson and Boyd being better DL and Palmer and Manning being better LBs.
Offline sschind  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 4:11:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I would not be surprised to see Neal cut. We keep both Jolly and Boyd. Neal was an experiment that just is not panning out IMO. He is the most expendable of our DL group listed there. We keep 7.


I just don't see them cutting Neal. Ted Thompson drafted him high (although maybe he was high when he drafted him I don't know) and they held onto him through injury after injury so they must have seen something. Now that he appears healthy I just don't see them cutting him loose. I could see if he had shown absolutely nothing but he did show some flashes of why they drafted him when he played. At least as much as Jolly or Boyd.
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Offline DoddPower  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 4:23:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: sschind Go to Quoted Post
I just don't see them cutting Neal. Ted Thompson drafted him high (although maybe he was high when he drafted him I don't know) and they held onto him through injury after injury so they must have seen something. Now that he appears healthy I just don't see them cutting him loose. I could see if he had shown absolutely nothing but he did show some flashes of why they drafted him when he played. At least as much as Jolly or Boyd.


Mike Neal isn't getting cut. Not even close, imo. He is very likely the Packers best pass rushing 'big man,' other than Datone Jones, who has yet to even play a preseason game. Yeah, he has issues with availability and consistency, but the talent is there, and he has contributed. Also, he's in a contract year, so if he disappoints again this season, he'll move on elsewhere with no ramifications for the Packers.

Neal provides some nice depth at a few positions (defensive end, defensive tackle, and outside linebacker). He undoubtedly has the ability to rush the passer. He just needs to stay somewhat healthy this season and he will more than earn his keep on this roster as a depth player. There's not player on the Packers defense that is very consistent, other than Clay Mathews, and even he is up and down sometimes. I just don't see any way that the Packers cut a relatively healthy Mike Neal. In fact, even if he gets injured again, he'll probably end up on injured reserve rather than being cut. Of course we would like to see more production from him, but at least he has the ability to provide the production. The same can't necessary be said for several other of the Packers defensive linemen, especially in the pass rush department.
Offline Gaycandybacon  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:14:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DoddPower Go to Quoted Post
Mike Neal isn't getting cut. Not even close, imo. He is very likely the Packers best pass rushing 'big man,' other than Datone Jones, who has yet to even play a preseason game. Yeah, he has issues with availability and consistency, but the talent is there, and he has contributed. Also, he's in a contract year, so if he disappoints again this season, he'll move on elsewhere with no ramifications for the Packers.

Neal provides some nice depth at a few positions (defensive end, defensive tackle, and outside linebacker). He undoubtedly has the ability to rush the passer. He just needs to stay somewhat healthy this season and he will more than earn his keep on this roster as a depth player. There's not player on the Packers defense that is very consistent, other than Clay Mathews, and even he is up and down sometimes. I just don't see any way that the Packers cut a relatively healthy Mike Neal. In fact, even if he gets injured again, he'll probably end up on injured reserve rather than being cut. Of course we would like to see more production from him, but at least he has the ability to provide the production. The same can't necessary be said for several other of the Packers defensive linemen, especially in the pass rush department.


I always thought the starting D-Line would be Datone Jones, B.J.Raji, Mike Neal.

Obviously they don't wanna move Pickett off the field so it spoiled my prediction.

If they wanna get pass rush from the base, they have to get Pickett and Wilson off the field. I hope they don't use Pickett/Wilson in every Base.

Datone and Neal would be dynamic on the field togetther
Online Mucky Tundra  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 7:29:15 PM(UTC)
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If Jolly can keep the play from the St Louis game up and gets on the team, I wonder if Capers would go with a 3 man DL in nickel instead of the 2 DL stuff we've seen the past few seasons? I'm thinking it would be a 3-3-5, which I've seen some in this forum mention the past few months. Different combinations of Jolly, Daniels, Jones, Raji on the line with Perry and Matthews coming on the edges with Neal doing his DE-LB hybrid role thingy occasionally?

It sounds good in my head but not sure if it would work well on the field.
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Offline beast  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 7:44:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
I always thought the starting D-Line would be Datone Jones, B.J.Raji, Mike Neal.

Obviously they don't wanna move Pickett off the field so it spoiled my prediction.

If they wanna get pass rush from the base, they have to get Pickett and Wilson off the field. I hope they don't use Pickett/Wilson in every Base.

Datone and Neal would be dynamic on the field togetther



Capers uses the starting base more for run defense than pass rush. Though I do wonder if Raji might be better pass rusher if they let him rest more.

Might be interesting to see a run defense of

Pickett, Jolly, and Wilson

Fresh pass rush of Jones, Raji and Daniels

(Neal working time at both DE and OLB)
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DoddPower on 8/21/2013(UTC)
Offline CaliforniaCheez  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:25:46 PM(UTC)
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Neal is more of an NT than a DE.

He is very strong but only has the bull rush move. He has not learned other techniques. He has trouble splitting double teams.

Raji and Pickett will need some snaps off.

I think of him as number 5 on the chart with some untapped potential. If he could use his hands better he could be much better.

I don't think the Packers will give up on the guy yet. He has some great athletic qualities that are tough to find. He just has to learn that he can't just depend upon his strength alone.
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Offline nerdmann  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:00:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CaliforniaCheez Go to Quoted Post
Neal is more of an NT than a DE.

He is very strong but only has the bull rush move. He has not learned other techniques. He has trouble splitting double teams.

Raji and Pickett will need some snaps off.

I think of him as number 5 on the chart with some untapped potential. If he could use his hands better he could be much better.

I don't think the Packers will give up on the guy yet. He has some great athletic qualities that are tough to find. He just has to learn that he can't just depend upon his strength alone.


Neal? Keep in mind, dude now weighs 275lbs.
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DoddPower on 8/21/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:26:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra Go to Quoted Post
If Jolly can keep the play from the St Louis game up and gets on the team, I wonder if Capers would go with a 3 man DL in nickel instead of the 2 DL stuff we've seen the past few seasons? I'm thinking it would be a 3-3-5, which I've seen some in this forum mention the past few months. Different combinations of Jolly, Daniels, Jones, Raji on the line with Perry and Matthews coming on the edges with Neal doing his DE-LB hybrid role thingy occasionally?

It sounds good in my head but not sure if it would work well on the field.


Yeah Mucky Tundra, I would like for us use 3 down linemen more often. Figure, Capers used that 2 so much partly because our DL just weren't good enough.

That landscape is changing in our favor if Datone Jones can deliver, Boyd coming in a rotation, Wilson improved, Daniels improved, Jolly improved, with Raji & Pick able to get some blows which will increase their effectiveness.

If Neal is a part of that, great. If not, we'll be fine. Better, regardless. We've got a couple of important weeks ahead to find out.

Two weeks can mean a lot.

I'm glad Jolly is a lock. Boyd seems too good to risk on the PS.

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Offline Wade  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:39:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
I always thought the starting D-Line would be Datone Jones, B.J.Raji, Mike Neal.

Obviously they don't wanna move Pickett off the field so it spoiled my prediction.

If they wanna get pass rush from the base, they have to get Pickett and Wilson off the field. I hope they don't use Pickett/Wilson in every Base.

Datone and Neal would be dynamic on the field togetther


Agree about Wilson, not about Pickett.

Raji offers much less on the nose than Pickett. Pickett occupies two blockers, freeing one DE up from being doubled. Raji has shown himself handled regularly with just one. And if you put Raji on the nose, you make it easier to run up the middle, both by RBs and the Kaepernicks of the league.

Me, I wish there were a way to have some 4-3 defense with Pickett and Jolly on the field on running plays.


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Offline play2win  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:49:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
Agree about Wilson, not about Pickett.

Raji offers much less on the nose than Pickett. Pickett occupies two blockers, freeing one DE up from being doubled. Raji has shown himself handled regularly with just one. And if you put Raji on the nose, you make it easier to run up the middle, both by RBs and the Kaepernicks of the league.

Me, I wish there were a way to have some 4-3 defense with Pickett and Jolly on the field on running plays.




I'd like to see us run some 4-3 too. I think we have all the personnel to make that work.
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