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Offline sschind  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 4:11:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I would not be surprised to see Neal cut. We keep both Jolly and Boyd. Neal was an experiment that just is not panning out IMO. He is the most expendable of our DL group listed there. We keep 7.


I just don't see them cutting Neal. Ted Thompson drafted him high (although maybe he was high when he drafted him I don't know) and they held onto him through injury after injury so they must have seen something. Now that he appears healthy I just don't see them cutting him loose. I could see if he had shown absolutely nothing but he did show some flashes of why they drafted him when he played. At least as much as Jolly or Boyd.
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Offline DoddPower  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 4:23:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: sschind Go to Quoted Post
I just don't see them cutting Neal. Ted Thompson drafted him high (although maybe he was high when he drafted him I don't know) and they held onto him through injury after injury so they must have seen something. Now that he appears healthy I just don't see them cutting him loose. I could see if he had shown absolutely nothing but he did show some flashes of why they drafted him when he played. At least as much as Jolly or Boyd.


Mike Neal isn't getting cut. Not even close, imo. He is very likely the Packers best pass rushing 'big man,' other than Datone Jones, who has yet to even play a preseason game. Yeah, he has issues with availability and consistency, but the talent is there, and he has contributed. Also, he's in a contract year, so if he disappoints again this season, he'll move on elsewhere with no ramifications for the Packers.

Neal provides some nice depth at a few positions (defensive end, defensive tackle, and outside linebacker). He undoubtedly has the ability to rush the passer. He just needs to stay somewhat healthy this season and he will more than earn his keep on this roster as a depth player. There's not player on the Packers defense that is very consistent, other than Clay Mathews, and even he is up and down sometimes. I just don't see any way that the Packers cut a relatively healthy Mike Neal. In fact, even if he gets injured again, he'll probably end up on injured reserve rather than being cut. Of course we would like to see more production from him, but at least he has the ability to provide the production. The same can't necessary be said for several other of the Packers defensive linemen, especially in the pass rush department.
Offline Gaycandybacon  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:14:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DoddPower Go to Quoted Post
Mike Neal isn't getting cut. Not even close, imo. He is very likely the Packers best pass rushing 'big man,' other than Datone Jones, who has yet to even play a preseason game. Yeah, he has issues with availability and consistency, but the talent is there, and he has contributed. Also, he's in a contract year, so if he disappoints again this season, he'll move on elsewhere with no ramifications for the Packers.

Neal provides some nice depth at a few positions (defensive end, defensive tackle, and outside linebacker). He undoubtedly has the ability to rush the passer. He just needs to stay somewhat healthy this season and he will more than earn his keep on this roster as a depth player. There's not player on the Packers defense that is very consistent, other than Clay Mathews, and even he is up and down sometimes. I just don't see any way that the Packers cut a relatively healthy Mike Neal. In fact, even if he gets injured again, he'll probably end up on injured reserve rather than being cut. Of course we would like to see more production from him, but at least he has the ability to provide the production. The same can't necessary be said for several other of the Packers defensive linemen, especially in the pass rush department.


I always thought the starting D-Line would be Datone Jones, B.J.Raji, Mike Neal.

Obviously they don't wanna move Pickett off the field so it spoiled my prediction.

If they wanna get pass rush from the base, they have to get Pickett and Wilson off the field. I hope they don't use Pickett/Wilson in every Base.

Datone and Neal would be dynamic on the field togetther
Offline Mucky Tundra  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 7:29:15 PM(UTC)
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If Jolly can keep the play from the St Louis game up and gets on the team, I wonder if Capers would go with a 3 man DL in nickel instead of the 2 DL stuff we've seen the past few seasons? I'm thinking it would be a 3-3-5, which I've seen some in this forum mention the past few months. Different combinations of Jolly, Daniels, Jones, Raji on the line with Perry and Matthews coming on the edges with Neal doing his DE-LB hybrid role thingy occasionally?

It sounds good in my head but not sure if it would work well on the field.
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Offline beast  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 7:44:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
I always thought the starting D-Line would be Datone Jones, B.J.Raji, Mike Neal.

Obviously they don't wanna move Pickett off the field so it spoiled my prediction.

If they wanna get pass rush from the base, they have to get Pickett and Wilson off the field. I hope they don't use Pickett/Wilson in every Base.

Datone and Neal would be dynamic on the field togetther



Capers uses the starting base more for run defense than pass rush. Though I do wonder if Raji might be better pass rusher if they let him rest more.

Might be interesting to see a run defense of

Pickett, Jolly, and Wilson

Fresh pass rush of Jones, Raji and Daniels

(Neal working time at both DE and OLB)
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DoddPower on 8/21/2013(UTC)
Offline CaliforniaCheez  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:25:46 PM(UTC)
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Neal is more of an NT than a DE.

He is very strong but only has the bull rush move. He has not learned other techniques. He has trouble splitting double teams.

Raji and Pickett will need some snaps off.

I think of him as number 5 on the chart with some untapped potential. If he could use his hands better he could be much better.

I don't think the Packers will give up on the guy yet. He has some great athletic qualities that are tough to find. He just has to learn that he can't just depend upon his strength alone.
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Offline nerdmann  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:00:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CaliforniaCheez Go to Quoted Post
Neal is more of an NT than a DE.

He is very strong but only has the bull rush move. He has not learned other techniques. He has trouble splitting double teams.

Raji and Pickett will need some snaps off.

I think of him as number 5 on the chart with some untapped potential. If he could use his hands better he could be much better.

I don't think the Packers will give up on the guy yet. He has some great athletic qualities that are tough to find. He just has to learn that he can't just depend upon his strength alone.


Neal? Keep in mind, dude now weighs 275lbs.
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Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:26:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra Go to Quoted Post
If Jolly can keep the play from the St Louis game up and gets on the team, I wonder if Capers would go with a 3 man DL in nickel instead of the 2 DL stuff we've seen the past few seasons? I'm thinking it would be a 3-3-5, which I've seen some in this forum mention the past few months. Different combinations of Jolly, Daniels, Jones, Raji on the line with Perry and Matthews coming on the edges with Neal doing his DE-LB hybrid role thingy occasionally?

It sounds good in my head but not sure if it would work well on the field.


Yeah Mucky Tundra, I would like for us use 3 down linemen more often. Figure, Capers used that 2 so much partly because our DL just weren't good enough.

That landscape is changing in our favor if Datone Jones can deliver, Boyd coming in a rotation, Wilson improved, Daniels improved, Jolly improved, with Raji & Pick able to get some blows which will increase their effectiveness.

If Neal is a part of that, great. If not, we'll be fine. Better, regardless. We've got a couple of important weeks ahead to find out.

Two weeks can mean a lot.

I'm glad Jolly is a lock. Boyd seems too good to risk on the PS.

Message modified by user Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:46:33 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Wade  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:39:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
I always thought the starting D-Line would be Datone Jones, B.J.Raji, Mike Neal.

Obviously they don't wanna move Pickett off the field so it spoiled my prediction.

If they wanna get pass rush from the base, they have to get Pickett and Wilson off the field. I hope they don't use Pickett/Wilson in every Base.

Datone and Neal would be dynamic on the field togetther


Agree about Wilson, not about Pickett.

Raji offers much less on the nose than Pickett. Pickett occupies two blockers, freeing one DE up from being doubled. Raji has shown himself handled regularly with just one. And if you put Raji on the nose, you make it easier to run up the middle, both by RBs and the Kaepernicks of the league.

Me, I wish there were a way to have some 4-3 defense with Pickett and Jolly on the field on running plays.


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Offline play2win  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:49:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
Agree about Wilson, not about Pickett.

Raji offers much less on the nose than Pickett. Pickett occupies two blockers, freeing one DE up from being doubled. Raji has shown himself handled regularly with just one. And if you put Raji on the nose, you make it easier to run up the middle, both by RBs and the Kaepernicks of the league.

Me, I wish there were a way to have some 4-3 defense with Pickett and Jolly on the field on running plays.




I'd like to see us run some 4-3 too. I think we have all the personnel to make that work.
Offline wpr  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 6:06:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I'd like to see us run some 4-3 too. I think we have all the personnel to make that work.


I was not a fan of the switch to the 3-4. I remember what a disaster it was when they made the move last time. (Was that the late 80's?) Apparently Capers has some issues with it too as he rarely has them line up in a traditional 3-4.
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Offline play2win  
#27 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:11:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I was not a fan of the switch to the 3-4. I remember what a disaster it was when they made the move last time. (Was that the late 80's?) Apparently Capers has some issues with it too as he rarely has them line up in a traditional 3-4.


I actually wanted to see us go to the 3-4 years before we actually did. it was different then. Only a few teams ran it, and the best players for it became more available than for the 4-3. However, this is an ever changing NFL, and I like Capers and his ability to adapt with the changes. I wonder if he has much 4-3 planned for this year, as it can be more effective with so many teams now running 3-4s. I bet he does, and that right there could easily change the Mike Neal landscape... add to that Wilson and Jolly may prove to be a better 3 technique DTs.

Who knows what they have planned? But, they had to adjust after getting burned by the pistol and super mobile QBs like Kaepernick. They've adjusted personnel with some great additions, now let's see how they adjust scheme. This could get really interesting.

Speed off the edge with Neal and Perry working in rotation, who oddly enough returns to the position he knows best. Power opposite with Datone and maybe Boyd/Jolly/Wilson. Raji, Pickett and Daniels at the 1 technique could find this beneficial as well. Maybe Daniels would find some success as a 3 tech.

We have plenty of options if Capers wants to run 4-3 and 3-4 alignments. A player like Matthews could flourish equally playing a true Will LB.

I think it might be smart to keep those options available, maybe sacrifice an offensive position or two on the roster to keep more players on defense to allow for changing it up. That could get really interesting, indeed.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#28 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:40:12 AM(UTC)
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Only problem I have is they should not go prevent anymore unless it's 3rd and 15 + Hell even 3rd and 15 don't go prevent..

You're gonna get picked apart everytime.
Offline wpr  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:44:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I actually wanted to see us go to the 3-4 years before we actually did. it was different then. Only a few teams ran it, and the best players for it became more available than for the 4-3. However, this is an ever changing NFL, and I like Capers and his ability to adapt with the changes. I wonder if he has much 4-3 planned for this year, as it can be more effective with so many teams now running 3-4s. I bet he does, and that right there could easily change the Mike Neal landscape... add to that Wilson and Jolly may prove to be a better 3 technique DTs.

Who knows what they have planned? But, they had to adjust after getting burned by the pistol and super mobile QBs like Kaepernick. They've adjusted personnel with some great additions, now let's see how they adjust scheme. This could get really interesting.

Speed off the edge with Neal and Perry working in rotation, who oddly enough returns to the position he knows best. Power opposite with Datone and maybe Boyd/Jolly/Wilson. Raji, Pickett and Daniels at the 1 technique could find this beneficial as well. Maybe Daniels would find some success as a 3 tech.

We have plenty of options if Capers wants to run 4-3 and 3-4 alignments. A player like Matthews could flourish equally playing a true Will LB.

I think it might be smart to keep those options available, maybe sacrifice an offensive position or two on the roster to keep more players on defense to allow for changing it up. That could get really interesting, indeed.



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DoddPower on 8/21/2013(UTC), play2win on 8/21/2013(UTC)
Offline beast  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:01:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post

Me, I wish there were a way to have some 4-3 defense with Pickett and Jolly on the field on running plays.


Packers nickel package basically is a 4-2 ... and honestly I'd like to see Capers run some of that as well.

Pickett and Jolly in for run defese, nickel guy in for pass defense. Seems like it could cover tghe bases pretty well.

Then at stand up OLB (which basically is a 4-2 DE) have Perry and Neal (or Matthews).

And the 2 LB could be the ILBers (or Matthews).


I don't think we'll see it but one idea I really like is a dime defense with

DL: Perry, Pickett, Jolly, Neal

Dime defense so two extra DBs
LBs level: Hayward, Matthews, McMillian

DBs: Williams, Shields, Burnett and Jennings.


Or take out Jennings, move McMillian there and Hyde in for the second slot CB.
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