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CaliforniaCheez  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:25:46 PM(UTC)
Neal is more of an NT than a DE.

He is very strong but only has the bull rush move. He has not learned other techniques. He has trouble splitting double teams.

Raji and Pickett will need some snaps off.

I think of him as number 5 on the chart with some untapped potential. If he could use his hands better he could be much better.

I don't think the Packers will give up on the guy yet. He has some great athletic qualities that are tough to find. He just has to learn that he can't just depend upon his strength alone.
nerdmann  
#42 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:00:23 PM(UTC)
CaliforniaCheez said: Go to Quoted Post
Neal is more of an NT than a DE.

He is very strong but only has the bull rush move. He has not learned other techniques. He has trouble splitting double teams.

Raji and Pickett will need some snaps off.

I think of him as number 5 on the chart with some untapped potential. If he could use his hands better he could be much better.

I don't think the Packers will give up on the guy yet. He has some great athletic qualities that are tough to find. He just has to learn that he can't just depend upon his strength alone.


Neal? Keep in mind, dude now weighs 275lbs.
play2win  
#43 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:26:10 AM(UTC)
Mucky Tundra said: Go to Quoted Post
If Jolly can keep the play from the St Louis game up and gets on the team, I wonder if Capers would go with a 3 man DL in nickel instead of the 2 DL stuff we've seen the past few seasons? I'm thinking it would be a 3-3-5, which I've seen some in this forum mention the past few months. Different combinations of Jolly, Daniels, Jones, Raji on the line with Perry and Matthews coming on the edges with Neal doing his DE-LB hybrid role thingy occasionally?

It sounds good in my head but not sure if it would work well on the field.


Yeah Mucky Tundra, I would like for us use 3 down linemen more often. Figure, Capers used that 2 so much partly because our DL just weren't good enough.

That landscape is changing in our favor if Datone Jones can deliver, Boyd coming in a rotation, Wilson improved, Daniels improved, Jolly improved, with Raji & Pick able to get some blows which will increase their effectiveness.

If Neal is a part of that, great. If not, we'll be fine. Better, regardless. We've got a couple of important weeks ahead to find out.

Two weeks can mean a lot.

I'm glad Jolly is a lock. Boyd seems too good to risk on the PS.
Wade  
#44 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:39:54 AM(UTC)
Gaycandybacon said: Go to Quoted Post
I always thought the starting D-Line would be Datone Jones, B.J.Raji, Mike Neal.

Obviously they don't wanna move Pickett off the field so it spoiled my prediction.

If they wanna get pass rush from the base, they have to get Pickett and Wilson off the field. I hope they don't use Pickett/Wilson in every Base.

Datone and Neal would be dynamic on the field togetther


Agree about Wilson, not about Pickett.

Raji offers much less on the nose than Pickett. Pickett occupies two blockers, freeing one DE up from being doubled. Raji has shown himself handled regularly with just one. And if you put Raji on the nose, you make it easier to run up the middle, both by RBs and the Kaepernicks of the league.

Me, I wish there were a way to have some 4-3 defense with Pickett and Jolly on the field on running plays.


play2win  
#45 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:49:33 AM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Agree about Wilson, not about Pickett.

Raji offers much less on the nose than Pickett. Pickett occupies two blockers, freeing one DE up from being doubled. Raji has shown himself handled regularly with just one. And if you put Raji on the nose, you make it easier to run up the middle, both by RBs and the Kaepernicks of the league.

Me, I wish there were a way to have some 4-3 defense with Pickett and Jolly on the field on running plays.




I'd like to see us run some 4-3 too. I think we have all the personnel to make that work.
wpr  
#46 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 6:06:33 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
I'd like to see us run some 4-3 too. I think we have all the personnel to make that work.


I was not a fan of the switch to the 3-4. I remember what a disaster it was when they made the move last time. (Was that the late 80's?) Apparently Capers has some issues with it too as he rarely has them line up in a traditional 3-4.
play2win  
#47 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:11:30 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
I was not a fan of the switch to the 3-4. I remember what a disaster it was when they made the move last time. (Was that the late 80's?) Apparently Capers has some issues with it too as he rarely has them line up in a traditional 3-4.


I actually wanted to see us go to the 3-4 years before we actually did. it was different then. Only a few teams ran it, and the best players for it became more available than for the 4-3. However, this is an ever changing NFL, and I like Capers and his ability to adapt with the changes. I wonder if he has much 4-3 planned for this year, as it can be more effective with so many teams now running 3-4s. I bet he does, and that right there could easily change the Mike Neal landscape... add to that Wilson and Jolly may prove to be a better 3 technique DTs.

Who knows what they have planned? But, they had to adjust after getting burned by the pistol and super mobile QBs like Kaepernick. They've adjusted personnel with some great additions, now let's see how they adjust scheme. This could get really interesting.

Speed off the edge with Neal and Perry working in rotation, who oddly enough returns to the position he knows best. Power opposite with Datone and maybe Boyd/Jolly/Wilson. Raji, Pickett and Daniels at the 1 technique could find this beneficial as well. Maybe Daniels would find some success as a 3 tech.

We have plenty of options if Capers wants to run 4-3 and 3-4 alignments. A player like Matthews could flourish equally playing a true Will LB.

I think it might be smart to keep those options available, maybe sacrifice an offensive position or two on the roster to keep more players on defense to allow for changing it up. That could get really interesting, indeed.
Gaycandybacon  
#48 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:40:12 AM(UTC)
Only problem I have is they should not go prevent anymore unless it's 3rd and 15 + Hell even 3rd and 15 don't go prevent..

You're gonna get picked apart everytime.
wpr  
#49 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:44:07 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
I actually wanted to see us go to the 3-4 years before we actually did. it was different then. Only a few teams ran it, and the best players for it became more available than for the 4-3. However, this is an ever changing NFL, and I like Capers and his ability to adapt with the changes. I wonder if he has much 4-3 planned for this year, as it can be more effective with so many teams now running 3-4s. I bet he does, and that right there could easily change the Mike Neal landscape... add to that Wilson and Jolly may prove to be a better 3 technique DTs.

Who knows what they have planned? But, they had to adjust after getting burned by the pistol and super mobile QBs like Kaepernick. They've adjusted personnel with some great additions, now let's see how they adjust scheme. This could get really interesting.

Speed off the edge with Neal and Perry working in rotation, who oddly enough returns to the position he knows best. Power opposite with Datone and maybe Boyd/Jolly/Wilson. Raji, Pickett and Daniels at the 1 technique could find this beneficial as well. Maybe Daniels would find some success as a 3 tech.

We have plenty of options if Capers wants to run 4-3 and 3-4 alignments. A player like Matthews could flourish equally playing a true Will LB.

I think it might be smart to keep those options available, maybe sacrifice an offensive position or two on the roster to keep more players on defense to allow for changing it up. That could get really interesting, indeed.



UserPostedImage


Capers can be your assistant. [grin1]

beast  
#50 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:01:29 AM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post

Me, I wish there were a way to have some 4-3 defense with Pickett and Jolly on the field on running plays.


Packers nickel package basically is a 4-2 ... and honestly I'd like to see Capers run some of that as well.

Pickett and Jolly in for run defese, nickel guy in for pass defense. Seems like it could cover tghe bases pretty well.

Then at stand up OLB (which basically is a 4-2 DE) have Perry and Neal (or Matthews).

And the 2 LB could be the ILBers (or Matthews).


I don't think we'll see it but one idea I really like is a dime defense with

DL: Perry, Pickett, Jolly, Neal

Dime defense so two extra DBs
LBs level: Hayward, Matthews, McMillian

DBs: Williams, Shields, Burnett and Jennings.


Or take out Jennings, move McMillian there and Hyde in for the second slot CB.
steveishere  
#51 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:08:02 AM(UTC)
When we had Woodson we pretty much were playing a 4-3 since he was playing his slot CB position like a linebacker. With Hayward it's more of a traditional nickle formation with less support near the LOS but an improvement in coverage. I honestly do not care how they line up as long as they get stops.
DoddPower  
#52 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:32:36 AM(UTC)
CaliforniaCheez said: Go to Quoted Post
Neal is more of an NT than a DE.

He is very strong but only has the bull rush move. He has not learned other techniques. He has trouble splitting double teams.

Raji and Pickett will need some snaps off.

I think of him as number 5 on the chart with some untapped potential. If he could use his hands better he could be much better.

I don't think the Packers will give up on the guy yet. He has some great athletic qualities that are tough to find. He just has to learn that he can't just depend upon his strength alone.


Neal is not enough close to being a nose tackle. He's not even a DT in a traditional 4-3 defense. At best, he's a defensive end, and now they're trying to train him to be an OLB. I'm not sure I agree with the change, but this team loves making players learn completely new positions. I'd be happy with just letting him focus on being a rotational pass rusher. If he could provide a pass rush off the bench in certain situations, he would be a great asset for the team, even if he provided little else.

steveishere  
#53 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:48:40 AM(UTC)
DoddPower said: Go to Quoted Post
Neal is not enough close to being a nose tackle. He's not even a DT in a traditional 4-3 defense. At best, he's a defensive end, and now they're trying to train him to be an OLB. I'm not sure I agree with the change, but this team loves making players learn completely new positions. I'd be happy with just letting him focus on being a rotational pass rusher. If he could provide a pass rush off the bench in certain situations, he would be a great asset for the team, even if he provided little else.



Well if he can provide pass rush off the bench in more situations he'd also be a great asset. It's not like we have a plethora of pass rushers behind Matthews and Perry. If the guy is spending a good amount of time on the bench as a DL but is our best back up OLB why not let him learn OLB. It gets a pass rush specialist more opportunity to be on the field and opens up another roster spot. Win/win.
PackerTraxx  
#54 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:00:22 AM(UTC)
Good comments, I too would like to see more of a 3-3-5 or even a 3-2-6. With Perry back, Jones, Daniels, Neal, and Matthews we can field 4-5 good outside pass rushers. Plus we may have found a DB to add to the equation in Hyde. With these thoughts in mind, Raji becomes a key to get pressure up the middle so QBs can't step up and throw. He's has shown in the past to be able to do that. Last year the coaches said he had a good year but it didn't show because of constant double and triple teams. I think the large number of snaps also hurt. So we should be able to put together some pretty good passing down defenses. If we're lucky we may even have another 1 or 2 of the young LBs step up and be able to add them to the mix.
DarkaneRules  
#55 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:16:18 AM(UTC)
I want to see more delayed blitzes.
wpr  
#56 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:28:50 AM(UTC)
DarkaneRules said: Go to Quoted Post
I want to see more delayed blitzes.


I want to see more pressure on the QB. I don't care if it is a blitz, delayed blitz, 6 man line or a kid on a tricycle. I hate it when they send only 3 or even 2 guys and the QB can stand back there all day waiting for a receiver to find the open spot in the defense.
DoddPower  
#57 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:41:27 AM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Well if he can provide pass rush off the bench in more situations he'd also be a great asset. It's not like we have a plethora of pass rushers behind Matthews and Perry. If the guy is spending a good amount of time on the bench as a DL but is our best back up OLB why not let him learn OLB. It gets a pass rush specialist more opportunity to be on the field and opens up another roster spot. Win/win.


I agree with that, in theory, but there's no guarantee Neal will be as effective rushing the passer from the OLB position as he could be on the defensive line. It's not an insignificant change in technique. Also, the change has contributed to him losing weight, which could affect his pass rush ability (or improve it). Hopefully he can be effective from both positions, but that's yet to be seen, at least on game day. He didn't seem very effective against the Rams, although I don't think he did as bad as others seem to think. He didn't do great, but he also didn't get pushed around.

Making Neal learn another position just creates more unknowns, and more for him to prove. It also provides more opportunity, but opportunity does not equal success or production. It could also mean an opportunity to flop. At least it was fairly obvious he could be effective at times on the defensive line. Either way, I certainly hope he pans out, because I'm a fan of the guy and I think he has a ton of talent. He just needs to stay healthy and be more consistent.
DarkaneRules  
#58 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 10:52:59 AM(UTC)
Jones got hurt again. Looks like he re-aggrivated his original injury.
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