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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:46:23 PM(UTC)
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Jason Wilde wrote:
GREEN BAY — Nine months ago, the Green Bay Packers didn't lay a finger on Colin Kaepernick. Now, they're talking about how important it is to hit the San Francisco 49ers quarterback whenever he runs a read-option play — whether he keeps the ball or gets rid of it.

And that has 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh talking to NFL officials and suggesting that the Packers are out to get his guy.

It all started with an interview on ESPN Radio's Mike & Mike on Monday morning, when Packers outside linebacker Clay Matthews said that when Kaepernick carries out fakes on read-option plays, the Packers "have to take your shots on the quarterback."

By Wednesday, Harbaugh was seeing what he could do to prevent that.

According to Matthews, when NFL referee Bill Vinovich and his crew came to Green Bay during the first week of training camp, he and the Packers' coaching staff talked at length with the officials about what is and is not legal as far as hitting the quarterback on read-option plays. The Packers' inability to handle read-option plays was a huge issue in the 49ers' 45-31 victory in the NFC Divisional Playoffs, when Kaepernick ran for an astonishing 181 yards. According to ESPN Stats & Information, 178 of those 181 yards came before contact, meaning the Packers never even touched him.

"One of the things that the referees have told us is that when these quarterbacks carry out the fakes, they lose their right as a quarterback, a pocket-passing quarterback, the protection of a quarterback," Matthews told Mike & Mike. "So with that, you do have to take your shots on the quarterback, and obviously they're too important to their offense.

"If that means they pull them out of that type of offense and make them run a traditional, drop-back, pocket-style offense, I think that's exactly what we're going for. So you want to put hits as early and often on the quarterback and make them uncomfortable."

"I can tell you right now, we started from Day 1 in OTAs when we came back in the offseason working on this read-option, pistol, fake offense for lack of a better term. We've been working on it, especially after what we saw last year in the playoffs specifically and then opening up the season with two of these quarterbacks. We're ready. We feel good about it."

Those comments prompted Harbaugh to go on the offensive and even invoke images of the New Orleans Saints' bounty scandal by suggesting the Packers are "targeting" Kaepernick.

"We're still doing some talking there to fully understand what they're saying," Harbaugh said in his press conference Wednesday. "I think there's a bit of a gray area.

"My opinion is when a quarterback, before he is declared being a runner, he should be afforded protection that all quarterbacks are afforded until he declares and gets out of the pocket and starts running with the ball or running the option or carrying out a bootleg and attempting a run or a pass when he's outside the pocket. I believe when he's in the pocket he's a quarterback until he declares he's a runner. Those are the conversations right now. We haven't gotten a final clarification on what it's going to be."

Asked about Matthews' comments, Harbaugh said he would talk with the referees before the game.

"You're hearing a lot of tough talk right now, intimidating type of talk, the kind of things, the same thing we were hearing a couple of years ago," Harbaugh said during his press conference Wednesday. "It sounds a lot like targeting a specific player. You definitely start to wonder.

"A man will usually tell you his bad intentions if you just listen (to) what's being discussed publicly. What's being said publicly (will tell you) what's being said privately. You hope that their intent is not going to be anything that's not within the rules."

Asked on his conference call with Wisconsin reporters about the idea that the Packers will try to hit him early and often, Kaepernick did a verbal shrug.

"I wear a helmet and shoulder pads like everyone else," Kaepernick said. "It's for a reason."
Delivering the latest and most important updates on the Green Bay Packers for your convenience.
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Offline StoicFire  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:07:19 PM(UTC)
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I don't think this is a bias speaking, but I really struggle to see Harbaugh's point of view on this one. I know he is worried about the safety of his quarterback, but his interpretation of the rules just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see how a defensive player, playing at full speed, could be asked to treat a player who is attempting to blur the lines as to whether or not he is a runner or a passer as a passer until proven otherwise. That is what I'm getting here:

"until he declares and gets out of the pocket and starts running with the ball or running the option or carrying out a bootleg and attempting a run or a pass when he's outside the pocket"

Basically, don't hit Kaepernick until he has already burned you. I think that if you wanted to be afforded every protection of a passer, it must be clear that you are a passer. It seems as though Harbaugh's words ask too much of defensive players, and are really just in place to protect his star.
"the Quarterback can run if he wants to, but with this rocket attached to your body... who would?" -Aaron Rodgers
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yooperfan on 9/4/2013(UTC)
Offline sschind  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:26:28 PM(UTC)
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A couple of things come to mind. One is very simple, once the QB crosses the line of scrimmage he can no longer throw the ball so he becomes a runner. He should get no special treatment (other than the slide protection rule when he is giving up.) That should be obvious.

The other is what to do behind the line of scrimmage. That's not so clear and I am not sure what to say about it. Part of me (most of me) doesn't like the preferential treatment QBs get anyway so I say let them get hit.

If a RB or a WR can throw the ball on an end around or something like that why does he not get the same protection as a QB. If he doesn't why should a QB get special treatment just because he can throw the ball.

As far as Harbaugh whining, of course he is going to look at it as if the Packers are going to take cheap shots. He just wants to raise enough stink before hand to make sure that when those shots, cheap or legit, come he can say " I have informed you thusly"
I respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
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hardrocker950 on 9/4/2013(UTC)
Online Mucky Tundra  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:30:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: StoicFire Go to Quoted Post
I don't think this is a bias speaking, but I really struggle to see Harbaugh's point of view on this one. I know he is worried about the safety of his quarterback, but his interpretation of the rules just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see how a defensive player, playing at full speed, could be asked to treat a player who is attempting to blur the lines as to whether or not he is a runner or a passer as a passer until proven otherwise. That is what I'm getting here:

"until he declares and gets out of the pocket and starts running with the ball or running the option or carrying out a bootleg and attempting a run or a pass when he's outside the pocket"

Basically, don't hit Kaepernick until he has already burned you. I think that if you wanted to be afforded every protection of a passer, it must be clear that you are a passer. It seems as though Harbaugh's words ask too much of defensive players, and are really just in place to protect his star.


Harbaugh is a whiney asshole two face who thinks he's never wrong. It's stupid of him to compare what Matthews is saying to what the Saints did while at the same time deliberately running his QB on read-option plays (like you pointed out). I'm gonna enjoy watching him squirm when Kaepernick inevitably gets knocked out after throwing him into fire too many times.
May not have the best looking number...but it's the sexiest! -David Bakhtiari
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yooperfan on 9/4/2013(UTC)
Offline hardrocker950  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:43:40 PM(UTC)
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If you want to take the role of a running back, expect to be hit like one. I say hit the SOB all day. I get the fact that there are some rules for the sake of safety, but you can't use them to make a player untouchable - that is just nonsense.

I knew this would be an issue after seeing all the hype about running QBs and finally the day has come that we see it on our board.

The moment you take off running, or make yourself appear as a runner - be prepared to get your bell rung. This is how football has been, and it is how it should stay. 15 yard penalty for a rough hit? Fine by me, just make sure he regrets running the optionBig Grin
"I enjoy being just one of 53 on the team." - Aaron Rodgers
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DoddPower on 9/4/2013(UTC), yooperfan on 9/4/2013(UTC)
Offline flep  
#6 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:53:34 AM(UTC)
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If he's got the ball, hit him. Simple really.
Formed Merseyside Nighthawks. British Champions 1992. Packer fan for 30 years

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I feel very wrong now!!!!!!!!!
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play2win on 9/5/2013(UTC)
Online steveishere  
#7 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:09:54 AM(UTC)
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If you want to fake that you have the ball you are fair game. To me it's as simple as that. Harbaugh is the biggest crybaby in the NFL.
Offline Pack93z  
#8 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:16:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: sschind Go to Quoted Post


The other is what to do behind the line of scrimmage. That's not so clear and I am not sure what to say about it. Part of me (most of me) doesn't like the preferential treatment QBs get anyway so I say let them get hit.


Been of that viewpoint for 25 years... since the high school days of the bullshit red "don't touch me" jerseys... pansy asses anyways.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline play2win  
#9 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:05:05 AM(UTC)
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Harbaugh is just posturing, but he may get his way. I hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised to see us get penalized wrongly with a hit to Kaepernick. It is in their house, with their crowd.

I hope the Packers pummel him mercilessly.
Offline dyeah_gb  
#10 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:28:25 AM(UTC)
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I remember when the I saw the articles early this year related to preparing for the option/pistol. I did not recognize at the time that part of the frustration was just plain old confusion of the rules.

I think Harbaugh has made it clear that he wants to win by manipulating the rules rather than having a sound strategy.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#11 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:04:06 AM(UTC)
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Philly has been trying to do this with Michael Vick as well. It is bullshit. You can not fake like you are running and not expect to be clbbered when you then decide to pull-up and throw. It doesn't work that way. If a punter decides to do this is he protected as well. Let's remove the discretion from the game not add to the grey areas that give the refs more challenges to get it right.
"Stumbling from one disaster to another" Lost Together (Blue Rodeo)
Offline DarkaneRules  
#12 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:57:46 AM(UTC)
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I got very angry when I read this. I would rather just not pay attention to him. Like the coach in Seattle, this is a guy who annoys the crap out of me. I respect him as a coach more than the other guy Pete, but at the same time, I just think he's a prick.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 9:10:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Been of that viewpoint for 25 years... since the high school days of the bullsh!t red "don't touch me" jerseys... pansy asses anyways.


I always enjoy reading your "viepoints", Makes me laugh, because they are so true!!!

Someone else mentioned it earlier, if a Packer player or 2 happen to get a "flag" for a so called roughing the passre, so be it.

I'm not talking about cheap shots, but as we saw in preseason, one of The Packers lbr's(?) made what Mike called an absolute textbook hit on the QB and he got flagged.

Take your shots boys, Harbaugh can cry all he wants, I for one am tired of hearing about 'The New" NFL QB.

RGIII has probably already taken a few years off his career, let's see if him and his coach learned anything from last year.

This new"pistol" offense will become a thing of the past when the owners have to start paying their franchise QB's while they are standing on the sidelines rehabbing or are put on IR.

Money talks boys and girls, won't take much.
Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline PackerTraxx  
#14 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 9:31:44 AM(UTC)
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Harbaugh is lucky I'm not a ref...I very much dislike whinny crybabies...he would never get the benefit of the doubt. Every coach works the ref, constantly whining and trying to set your own rules is overboard.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
Offline Wade  
#15 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:46:13 AM(UTC)
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I'm not concerned about what Harbaugh says or does. If he wants to act and look like a camel with plugged-up bowels when he's on the sideline, let him.

That said, I have to I say that I hope that the Packers approach is more about keeping Kaepernick from getting TO the open field and less about how hard to hit him once he's got there.

Better tackling form is something the Packers need to stress across the board on defense, but ISTM once you let someone like Kaepernick out of traffic, you've already seriously limited even the best tackler from stopping him.

Keep him from getting to the line of scrimmage, and you don't have to worry about what he can do past it. Keep him from finding a hole or getting outside, and you don't have to worry about what he would do if he does.

IMO.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Offline Yerko  
#16 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:11:45 PM(UTC)
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First, I am gad to see that the Packers are taking the route they are taking by wanting to test the rules of the NFL, instead of screwing up and later blaming the rules for their poor performance.

Second, I am so tired of the bullshit protection any quarterback in the league gets and to even have a conversation of furthering the protection for a scrambling/pistol/read-option/whatever the hell they are calling them quarterback is ridiculous. Take the quarterback off the pedestal and put him on a level playing ground of every other player on the field.
If the league gives a read-option quarterback more protection, it just creates a giant mess. Like the article states, the read-option offense is about deception. If you are allowing one player of that read-option to be untouchable, the defense is screwed.

Third and lastly, please stfu Harbaugh. The season hasn't even started yet and you are stomping your feet and crying about something. If you don't like the rules, change your offensive scheme you dillweed.
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Offline nyrpack  
#17 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:01:37 PM(UTC)
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Let the whining begin for Jim horrible nicknamed after his qb play
jimmy b.
Offline gbguy20  
#18 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:41:08 PM(UTC)
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All I am worried about is that we actually touch him this game. Last year he ran all over us nearly untouched. We need to hit him behind the LOS, not 20 yards later.
call me Dan
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Offline Bigbyfan  
#19 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:53:38 PM(UTC)
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If I was Dom Capers, I would take a 15 yard penalty early in the game just to send a message. Have Clay Matthews drive Kap's candy ass into the ground and let him have a little something extra to think about for the rest of the game,
blank
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Offline Pack93z  
#20 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 2:27:43 PM(UTC)
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The NFL's Reply..


NFL confirms: Read-option QBs can be hit like runners

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Quote:
Players on the Packers have been talking about hitting 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, and San Francisco coach Jim Harbaugh is not happy about that. But the NFL has some bad news for Harbaugh: Taking hits comes with the territory of being a read-option quarterback.

In an officiating video distributed to the media, NFL Vice President of Officiating Dean Blandino says that read-option quarterbacks can be hit like runners, even if they don’t have the ball. If a quarterback who handed off or pitched the ball is still carrying out a fake in a running posture, he can be tackled the same way he would be if he still had the ball.

“He is still treated as a runner until he is clearly out of the play,” Blandino said. “The quarterback makes the pitch, he’s still a runner — he can be hit like a runner until he’s clearly out of the play.”
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline nyrpack  
#21 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 3:41:08 PM(UTC)
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do whatever it takes , so this guy cant run all over us, but do it within the rules, im no fan of cheapshots , if you cant beat them fairly in my book you dont deserve to win at all, just my opinion !!
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Offline nerdmann  
#22 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:31:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nyrpack Go to Quoted Post
do whatever it takes , so this guy cant run all over us, but do it within the rules, im no fan of cheapshots , if you cant beat them fairly in my book you dont deserve to win at all, just my opinion !!


I'm not saying do something dirty to injure the guy. But I agree that a message needs to be sent.

That said, we don't have to rely on Eric Walden to maintain containment anymore. Because I don't think he ever actually did so a single time in his entire life.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline dhazer  
#23 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:02:49 PM(UTC)
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I think a message needs to be sent early, btw did we sign anyone late for this game lol



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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
Offline mi_keys  
#24 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:07:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I'm not saying do something dirty to injure the guy. But I agree that a message needs to be sent.


I want each and every last individual bone of Kaepernick's rib cage to have a deep bone bruise by the end of the first quarter; each bruising shot delivered with a shoulder pad when he has the ball, three of which cause fumbles.

Quote:
That said, we don't have to rely on Eric Walden to maintain containment anymore. Because I don't think he ever actually did so a single time in his entire life.


This is the most I've ever agreed with you. Ever. Walden couldn't contain an infant in a play pen.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Offline porky88  
#25 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2013 5:28:56 PM(UTC)
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Harbaugh is just trying to buy a cheap 15 yards.
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