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Offline nerdmann  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, October 2, 2013 7:56:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
The packers do take the play clock down when they run no huddle. The reason they go no huddle is to stop the other team from substituting.


Against the Niners, they had multiple 10 play drives for under 3:00.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline steveishere  
#2 Posted : Thursday, October 3, 2013 9:59:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Against the Niners, they had multiple 10 play drives for under 3:00.


They had 0 10 play drives against the Niners...

Play clock is not the same thing as game clock. Just because the game clock isn't running doesn't mean they aren't taking time.

Does the defense not get to rest if the previous play was an incomplete pass and stopped the game clock? HAHA "Hey guys the game clock has stopped for this next play so run some wind sprints on the sideline, you only get to rest if the clock is running"
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texaspackerbacker on 10/4/2013(UTC)
Online Zero2Cool  
#3 Posted : Thursday, October 3, 2013 10:03:41 AM(UTC)
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Offline hardrocker950  
#4 Posted : Thursday, October 3, 2013 10:39:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
They had 0 10 play drives against the Niners...

Play clock is not the same thing as game clock. Just because the game clock isn't running doesn't mean they aren't taking time.

Does the defense not get to rest if the previous play was an incomplete pass and stopped the game clock? HAHA "Hey guys the game clock has stopped for this next play so run some wind sprints on the sideline, you only get to rest if the clock is running"


I partially agree. The part I disagree with is about the game clock. While everyone is getting a breather - if the game clock stops, that still leaves time that they will likely be playing. If the clock keeps moving- that takes time away that the D would likely be on the field.
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Offline steveishere  
#5 Posted : Thursday, October 3, 2013 12:51:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hardrocker950 Go to Quoted Post
I partially agree. The part I disagree with is about the game clock. While everyone is getting a breather - if the game clock stops, that still leaves time that they will likely be playing. If the clock keeps moving- that takes time away that the D would likely be on the field.


I'm referring to people saying things like "they only got a 2 minute break" when the offense only took 2 minutes off the clock but ran a 9-10 play drive. The # of plays is the amount of time the defense is resting moreso than how much time came off the game clock.
Online buckeyepackfan  
#6 Posted : Thursday, October 3, 2013 1:28:33 PM(UTC)
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Just because The Packers run a no-huddle, doesn't mean all their drives are going to be less than 3:00.

Take the last scoring drive The Packers had in The Bengals game.

The 3rd play of the drive is when Franklin busted open for a 51yd gain.

Now is he supposed to just run for 10 yds then fall down, because The Packers are trying to run clock?

This whole premise of trying to milk the clock at the beginning or even halfway through the game is ridiculous.

Todays NFL is all about score, score and score some more!!!!!

Hell the rules almost force a team to try and put up 50 just to have a safe lead.

Thankfully The Packers have the personal to do this.
Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
thanks Post received 2 applause.
DoddPower on 10/3/2013(UTC), texaspackerbacker on 10/4/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#7 Posted : Thursday, October 3, 2013 3:59:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Just because The Packers run a no-huddle, doesn't mean all their drives are going to be less than 3:00.

Take the last scoring drive The Packers had in The Bengals game.

The 3rd play of the drive is when Franklin busted open for a 51yd gain.

Now is he supposed to just run for 10 yds then fall down, because The Packers are trying to run clock?

This whole premise of trying to milk the clock at the beginning or even halfway through the game is ridiculous.

Todays NFL is all about score, score and score some more!!!!!

Hell the rules almost force a team to try and put up 50 just to have a safe lead.

Thankfully The Packers have the personal to do this.


Fundamentals are fundamentals.

If you give Kaepernick 50 snaps, he'll score more points than he will if you give him 25.

Plain and simple.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline DoddPower  
#8 Posted : Friday, October 4, 2013 8:20:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Fundamentals are fundamentals.

If you give Kaepernick 50 snaps, he'll score more points than he will if you give him 25.

Plain and simple.



If you're going to be that rudimentary about it, than I'll be even more "plain and simple". If the Packers score more points than their opponent, they'll win the game. It doesn't matter how many plays it takes, so long as they score more points.

As I've said before, it's the offenses job to score points, and it's the defenses job to stop the opposing team from scoring points. Anything other than that (long drives, etc.), is just a bonus. If the Packers offense could easily score 40+ points every game as a result of very quick time of possession drives, I would be ecstatic.

Generally speaking over the past few years, the offense has done it's job. The defense needs to step up and get off the field.
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texaspackerbacker on 10/4/2013(UTC)
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#9 Posted : Friday, October 4, 2013 8:40:01 AM(UTC)
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The simple point that is overlooked here by people advocating taking time off the clock to keep Kaepernick or whoever off the field is that we would also be taking time away from OUR high powered offense.

The only way this logic flies - shortening the game to inhibit the other team's offense - is if the other team's offense is BETTER than our own ....... and I just don't see any of those around, not even Kaepernick and the Niners.

Let Rodgers do his thing; Hope for a threat at least of a better running game; And hope our defense can get some stops; That will result in winning games.
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Offline nerdmann  
#10 Posted : Friday, October 4, 2013 12:11:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DoddPower Go to Quoted Post
If you're going to be that rudimentary about it, than I'll be even more "plain and simple". If the Packers score more points than their opponent, they'll win the game. It doesn't matter how many plays it takes, so long as they score more points.

As I've said before, it's the offenses job to score points, and it's the defenses job to stop the opposing team from scoring points. Anything other than that (long drives, etc.), is just a bonus. If the Packers offense could easily score 40+ points every game as a result of very quick time of possession drives, I would be ecstatic.

Generally speaking over the past few years, the offense has done it's job. The defense needs to step up and get off the field.


The defense clearly wore down against the Niners.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline steveishere  
#11 Posted : Friday, October 4, 2013 12:59:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
The defense clearly wore down against the Niners.


Maybe they shouldn't have spent the entire game (not just late in the game) giving up first downs and letting SF march down the field with little resistance. They weren't tired because of the TOP they were tired because they couldn't get their own asses off the field.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 10/5/2013(UTC)
Offline mi_keys  
#12 Posted : Friday, October 4, 2013 3:04:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Maybe they shouldn't have spent the entire game (not just late in the game) giving up first downs and letting SF march down the field with little resistance. They weren't tired because of the TOP they were tired because they couldn't get their own asses off the field.


No, that 8 minute drive in the first quarter is because Rodgers and McCarthy pulled the fire alarm at the hotel at 3:30 in the morning. It's always their fault.
Born and bred a cheesehead
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 10/5/2013(UTC)
Offline Gaycandybacon  
#13 Posted : Saturday, October 5, 2013 3:09:57 AM(UTC)
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I will say this. The only way you're gonna keep the other offense off the field is having a balanced attack. The problem with this offense in the past has always been pass pass pass. If it works keep doing it. The Packers have been great at actually throwing it a lot and winning games. But it doesn't always work. I know people say "control the clock" but you really have no control over it. Unless you run run run. And that's not gonna work, even if you have Barry Sanders.

I actually believe the Packers are trying to convert to a balanced offense rather than a pass heavy team through the 1st 3 weeks. Which is a good sign moving forward.

The primary thing though is third down conversions. That is key to time of possession. That is the only key imo. And that's the only thing holding this team back, on both sides of the ball. Through 2 of 3 games this year we've had trouble at times with 3rd down conversions. I think we were one of the worst in the league last year. We need to beat a team on sunday who I think is the best against 3rd downs.

Now when I say it's the only key, i'm not kidding.

Say it's 3rd and 5 and you only get 2 or 3 yards. Now you give the other team the ball with time getting taken off the clock. That's when it plays into the other teams favor. Other time that also goes in the other teams favor is when you throw on third down and it's an incomplete pass. (Which more time than not, is what happens to the Packers.) That will cause the opposing offense to wear down the defense by having a little bit more time to make plays and keeps on making them if we can't stop them.

I much would rather have the first situation. For as great of player Rodgers is and McCarthy is coaching. I think they're overally aggressive on third down. I believe if Rodgers checked down a lot more we'd be much better. We have guys that can do that now with Franklin and Lacy. Especially Sneaky Franklin where he can get those extra yards. That would put even more pressure on the defense.

So I mean it doesn't really matter about time of possession unless we convert 3rd downs. That's what really effects games.


The worst down we have trouble converting is 3rd and short surprisingly. I believe if we sure up that situation with Lacy/play calling we'll be golden.

The point is we need to keep drives going. It's not about not trying to keep the clock moving, it's about trying to score touchdowns on every drive. If you can't convert more than 1 or 2 conversions every time you have the ball, you're not gonna win football games.

Message modified by user Saturday, October 5, 2013 3:23:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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hardrocker950 on 10/5/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#14 Posted : Saturday, October 5, 2013 7:42:22 AM(UTC)
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Pass pass pass is one thing.

Run and shoot passing deep down the field is different from ball control and moving the chains. One is high percentage, the other is not. One runs the clock, the other does not.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
thanks Post received 1 applause.
yooperfan on 10/5/2013(UTC)
Online buckeyepackfan  
#15 Posted : Saturday, October 5, 2013 9:08:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Pass pass pass is one thing.

Run and shoot passing deep down the field is different from ball control and moving the chains. One is high percentage, the other is not. One runs the clock, the other does not.



So The Packers are using a run and shoot deep passing strategy to move the ball down the field ?

Do you realize that Aaron Rodgers has thrown for 1057 yds this year, of that 510 are YAC.

That's 48.25% of Aarons yardage is YAC

Again are the receivers suppose to fall down when they catch the ball so the drive may or may not be extended?

Sorry to blow your run and shoot theory out of the water, but you make it to damn easy.

http://www.sportingchart...ds-after-the-catch/2013/

BTW Packers were leading in the 4th quarter at San Fran when Eddy Lacy fumbled and gave them good field position, and we've already discussed how The Packers 2 2nd half turnovers cost them the Bengals game.

Packers are -2 in turnover ratio for the year, their record reflects that at 1-2.
Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
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DoddPower on 10/5/2013(UTC)
Offline mi_keys  
#16 Posted : Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:15:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
I think we were one of the worst in the league last year. We need to beat a team on sunday who I think is the best against 3rd downs.


While I largely agree with your premise; 3rd down conversions are very important, far more so than time of possession. You recall incorrectly on the above. The Packers were 9th in 3rd down conversion last year.

Unless of course you were referring to our defensive rank. We were 20th defensively in third down conversions last year.

In 2011, we were 3rd offensively and 27th defensively. In 2010, we were 8th offensively and 9th defensively.

At the end of the day, our defense needs to do better getting off the field on third down; and, in fairness, they have done a better job since the 49ers game.

The other key, as buckeye points out, is turnovers. Our offense (and special teams) needs to cut out the historically uncharacteristic turnovers.

If we do those two things, we can lose time of possession all day and destroy teams anyway.

source: http://www.sportingchart...rd-down-efficiency/2012/

http://www.teamrankings....sion-pct?date=2012-02-05
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Offline nerdmann  
#17 Posted : Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:57:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
So The Packers are using a run and shoot deep passing strategy to move the ball down the field ?

Do you realize that Aaron Rodgers has thrown for 1057 yds this year, of that 510 are YAC.

That's 48.25% of Aarons yardage is YAC

Again are the receivers suppose to fall down when they catch the ball so the drive may or may not be extended?

Sorry to blow your run and shoot theory out of the water, but you make it to damn easy.

http://www.sportingchart...ds-after-the-catch/2013/

BTW Packers were leading in the 4th quarter at San Fran when Eddy Lacy fumbled and gave them good field position, and we've already discussed how The Packers 2 2nd half turnovers cost them the Bengals game.

Packers are -2 in turnover ratio for the year, their record reflects that at 1-2.


No one's saying turnovers don't hurt.

What I'm saying is, clock should have run out by the time those other teams got them.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline steveishere  
#18 Posted : Saturday, October 5, 2013 4:07:21 PM(UTC)
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Yeah the clock should have run out vs the 49ers before the Packers would have had a chance to take the lead in the 4th. That would have helped.
Offline DoddPower  
#19 Posted : Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:14:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
The defense clearly wore down against the Niners.



Then what was the problem at the beginning of the game when they weren't stopping them either?

I don't think it had nearly as much to do with being "wore down" as it was being outplayed. Regardless of how tired they were, it's still the defenses job to get off the field. The offense shouldn't have to compensate for the defense. If the Packers defense was actually good or better, they could compensate more often for the offense. Far too often in the past few years, it's been the offense picking up the defenses slack.

NFL players should be in good enough shape to play well for a football game. As long as the offense is scoring ~30 points most games, the Packers should win a lot of games. I would take an offense that puts up a lot of points quickly over one that has some longer drives, but only scores a few field goals. Besides, it's not like the Packers only throw deep, anyway. If a receiver turns a short pass into a long touch down, that's a good thing. As others have said, should Cobb et al. fall down just to extend the drive? Of course not. Yet another silly argument.

Score touchdowns whenever possible, however possible. The rest is up to the defense. Of course they (the defense) could score some points too, if, they'd like to get off the field to rest.
Offline nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:51:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DoddPower Go to Quoted Post
Then what was the problem at the beginning of the game when they weren't stopping them either?

I don't think it had nearly as much to do with being "wore down" as it was being outplayed. Regardless of how tired they were, it's still the defenses job to get off the field. The offense shouldn't have to compensate for the defense. If the Packers defense was actually good or better, they could compensate more often for the offense. Far too often in the past few years, it's been the offense picking up the defenses slack.

NFL players should be in good enough shape to play well for a football game. As long as the offense is scoring ~30 points most games, the Packers should win a lot of games. I would take an offense that puts up a lot of points quickly over one that has some longer drives, but only scores a few field goals. Besides, it's not like the Packers only throw deep, anyway. If a receiver turns a short pass into a long touch down, that's a good thing. As others have said, should Cobb et al. fall down just to extend the drive? Of course not. Yet another silly argument.

Score touchdowns whenever possible, however possible. The rest is up to the defense. Of course they (the defense) could score some points too, if, they'd like to get off the field to rest.


The defense was without Burnett and Hayward. Was Tramon playing? I forget. But we had guys out in the secondary.

Meanwhile the front 7 were focused on preventing Kaepernick from running, forcing him to throw.

This was a very good plan, imo and is in fact what I wanted them to do. The problem was that their WRs kept getting open. Boldin is a very good player. He's gonna beat backups.

This is why you try to help your defense out in that situation. If it was the offense that was depleted, you might ask your defense to step up and make some plays. But in this situation, the d was reeling from injuries. So give them some help, and maybe we win that game.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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