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Offline GermanGilbert  
#11 Posted : Monday, October 14, 2013 12:46:29 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Falling on it is wise because it prevents one of the other Packers players from touching it and then the Ravens getting it and marching down the field. Dunno, seems like the obvious wise choice to me.


The ball was almost dead when Kuhn tried to scoop it up. Thus, grabbing it up didn't save field position and the possibility that the ball would have hit another Packer was non-existent, IMO. Just staying away would have been the better option, I guess.


Offline GermanGilbert  
#12 Posted : Monday, October 14, 2013 12:54:09 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Edit, trying to find the NFL rules on a Punt Block and haven't found a solid source. All I find is that when a punt is blocked, either team can recover the ball. However, the TV analysts said something about if the Ravens recovered, they couldn't advance it. I keep finding contradicting information on that, although, not sure its credible.



Quote:
Any punt that is blocked and does not cross the line of scrimmage can be recovered and advanced by either team. However, if offensive team recovers it must make the yardage necessary for its first down to retain possession if punt was on fourth down.


The bold part is the important part of it. Koch's punt did cross the LOS and thus is considered as just a "short punt" which the Ravens just could have downed without gaining posession. With Kuhn touching it, it was a live ball again, just like a muffed punt.
Offline mi_keys  
#13 Posted : Monday, October 14, 2013 1:03:39 PM(UTC)
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To build on GermanGilbert's comments:

Quote:
FIRST TOUCHING BEYOND THE LINE
Article 2 “First touching” is when a player of the kicking team touches a scrimmage kick that is beyond the line of scrimmage before it has been touched by a player of the receiving team beyond the line. If the ball is first touched by a player of the kicking team, it remains in play. First touching is a violation, and the receivers shall have the option of taking possession of the ball at the spot of first touching, provided no penalty is accepted on the play, or at the spot where the ball is dead. First touching does not offset a foul by the receivers.


http://static.nfl.com/st...Rule9_Scrimmage_Kick.pdf

I'm assuming that language is up to date. The announcers (not that there always right) reiterated this rule during the play and this is how I've always remembered it to be structured. Conceptually, the rule is in place as it is because a partially blocked punt would actually be an advantage for the kicking team if the block was treated as a muffed punt.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#14 Posted : Monday, October 14, 2013 1:19:28 PM(UTC)
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Kuhn trying to scoop an run, dumb.
Kuhn falling on it and securing it, smart.

You fall on it and secure it removing any doubt of whether your team touched the ball after the line of scrimmage. If Kuhn and others scatter and it had deflected off a Packers player passed the line of scrimmage, that's a mistake in judgement. You can't play the game like that. You control what you can control. Ball is loose, you fall on it.
Offline GermanGilbert  
#15 Posted : Monday, October 14, 2013 1:47:05 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Kuhn trying to scoop an run, dumb.
Kuhn falling on it and securing it, smart.

You fall on it and secure it removing any doubt of whether your team touched the ball after the line of scrimmage. If Kuhn and others scatter and it had deflected off a Packers player passed the line of scrimmage, that's a mistake in judgement. You can't play the game like that. You control what you can control. Ball is loose, you fall on it.


Kuhn falling on it AND securing it, smart. But just with the combination of both. But how many times in the game of football the ball pops out after a player was falling on it? Way too often IMO. If Kuhn fall on the ball and didn't secure it, the play would also have ended up on the "dumb side" of this thread, wouldn't it? ;)



Offline Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Monday, October 14, 2013 2:02:40 PM(UTC)
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GermanGilbert said: Go to Quoted Post
Kuhn falling on it AND securing it, smart. But just with the combination of both. But how many times in the game of football the ball pops out after a player was falling on it? Way too often IMO. If Kuhn fall on the ball and didn't secure it, the play would also have ended up on the "dumb side" of this thread, wouldn't it? ;)





No. You try to control the outcome as much as you can. If Kuhn KNEW 100% no one touched it, I agree, run away and hope the other two players do the same. What are the chances the other two guys know the ball wasn't touched by one of their players?

The wisest choice to me is clear. You control the outcome. You fall on it and secure it. No doubt we've seen folks fall on it and it squirt out, but I'd rather a player try to be smart, than just twiddle his thumbs HOPING no player on his team touches it.


Plus, if you fall on it, then you get the ball right there, instead of watching the ball continue bounce down the field losing more and more field position.


Control what you can control. Fall on it and secure it. That's the wise play. To me anyway, but again, I'm not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree :)
Offline macbob  
#17 Posted : Monday, October 14, 2013 4:14:12 PM(UTC)
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I would say Kuhn getting anywhere near the ball dumb. All we had to do was not touch it and it was our ball.

But then again, I also ragged on Jeremy Ross for that kickoff he grabbed as it was going OB, so I obviously don't know some of these ST rules as well as I should.

D'oh...
Offline nyrpack  
#18 Posted : Monday, October 14, 2013 4:20:08 PM(UTC)
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kuhn play was dumb, but as ive said for quite ahile he is a overrated player imo, for a long time now !!
Offline mi_keys  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, October 15, 2013 2:48:34 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
No. You try to control the outcome as much as you can. If Kuhn KNEW 100% no one touched it, I agree, run away and hope the other two players do the same. What are the chances the other two guys know the ball wasn't touched by one of their players?

The wisest choice to me is clear. You control the outcome. You fall on it and secure it. No doubt we've seen folks fall on it and it squirt out, but I'd rather a player try to be smart, than just twiddle his thumbs HOPING no player on his team touches it.


Plus, if you fall on it, then you get the ball right there, instead of watching the ball continue bounce down the field losing more and more field position.


Control what you can control. Fall on it and secure it. That's the wise play. To me anyway, but again, I'm not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree :)


It wasn't even remotely close to having touched any of our players... until Kuhn, of course.
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