You are not logged in. Join Free! | Log In Thank you!    

Welcome to your Green Bay Packers Online Community!

Since 2006, PackersHome has been providing a unique experience for fans.
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages<12
Share
Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline steveishere  
#16 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:02:54 PM(UTC)
steveishere

Rank: 3rd Round Draft Pick

Posts: 1,237
Joined: 7/28/2012(UTC)

Applause Given: 27
Applause Received: 598

Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
I have to think that in the NFL today, that any teams medical crew would be more on top of things than just taking a players word.
Perhaps that's why the Packers are so beset with serious injuries.



What like make them take a lie detector before practice and ask if they are injured?
Offline sschind  
#17 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:54:38 PM(UTC)
sschind

Rank: 4th Round Draft Pick

United States
Posts: 752
Joined: 3/5/2013(UTC)
Location: SE WISCONSIN

Applause Given: 78
Applause Received: 307

From what i understand they signed him so he is theirs. He has to stay on the 53 man roster for 2 more weeks (its 3 weeks but he signed before their last game so that counts as 1) then they can put him on IR and replace him.

Whether the contact should be voided or should be contingent upon passing a physical (it isn't) is open for debate but mostly it sounds like Packers fans arguing for it because they want him back to stash him on their own IR.
I fully respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
beast on 10/17/2013(UTC)
Offline beast  
#18 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:23:27 PM(UTC)
beast

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Posts: 2,518
Joined: 10/5/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 119
Applause Received: 211

Originally Posted by: sschind Go to Quoted Post
From what i understand they signed him so he is theirs. He has to stay on the 53 man roster for 2 more weeks (its 3 weeks but he signed before their last game so that counts as 1) then they can put him on IR and replace him.
Whether the contact should be voided or should be contingent upon passing a physical (it isn't) is open for debate but mostly it sounds like Packers fans arguing for it because they want him back to stash him on their own IR.


I agree with this. I don't think the NFL will do anything, and therefor the Browns will be able to keep him. (not saying it's right nor proper according to the rules, but I think NFL will turn a blind eye to this)
Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
But it is more like a waiver wire pick up but with the minimum roster requirement.. they caught this on the introductory physical to join practices. If you waive a player injured, the player is protected as they have to be put on the IR and waived injured with financial compensation. It also protects the next team in signing damaged goods.


Yes... and no. When it's known the player is injured, you're totally right. But this is more like when it's unknown.

I agree with your augrement. But I'm also thinking the NFL is going to avoid this one and nothing is going to happen (unless someone is able to complain enough, but since he's now on the 53 man roster IR, I don't sure why the player, agent, NFLPA would complain. I don't think the Browns are going to complain, and the Packers are the ones that screwed up, so they might not complain either.)

Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
I fail to see how the contract would not be voided..


Simple, NFL wants to avoid admitting one of their teams made a mistake and if the Browns, Packers, player, agent and NFLPA don't complain then the issue is going away as fast as it popped up.

If forced to come up with an arguement for doing nothing, I think the NFL would just say, as a practice squad players, he was a FA (yes avoiding that he might of been hurt before being released by the Packers) and point out that being put on the 53 man roster gets him more money than he would of on the practice squad. But NFL normally avoids the direct issue when explaining things and put to the parts that agree with them.


America's team... of the people, by the people, for the people
UserPostedImage
~ made by pack93z
Online nerdmann  
#19 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:02:51 PM(UTC)
nerdmann

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

Posts: 6,513
Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 2,104
Applause Received: 470

Ted will hash it out with their GM.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline sschind  
#20 Posted : Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:15:21 PM(UTC)
sschind

Rank: 4th Round Draft Pick

United States
Posts: 752
Joined: 3/5/2013(UTC)
Location: SE WISCONSIN

Applause Given: 78
Applause Received: 307

Originally Posted by: beast Go to Quoted Post
I agree with this. I don't think the NFL will do anything, and therefor the Browns will be able to keep him. (not saying it's right nor proper according to the rules, but I think NFL will turn a blind eye to this)




Its not that they won't do anything, they can't do anything because there is nothing to do. I don't know what you mean about it being right and proper because it is right and proper. The Browns signed a guy off the practice squad and put him on their 53 man roster. That is all they had to do according to the rules. People are trying to read way more into this than there is. Packers fans seem to want to think that the Browns did something wrong, or are doing something wrong. They did not and they are not.

If the Browns wanted to void the contract they might be able to claim that someone was hiding something but since the Packers did not benefit anything from it they (the Browns) would be hard pressed to prove any deception on the part of the Packers. They may be able to claim Johnson knew and hid it but again, how can they prove it. Unless there is a doctor visit somewhere on record that says he had the injury before the signing there is really nothing they can prove. Besides, it doesn't sound like they want to contest it (if that is what you want to call it) anyway.

Face it Packers fans, Johnson got away and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I fully respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#21 Posted : Friday, October 18, 2013 3:39:37 AM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

United States
Posts: 2,364
Joined: 3/4/2013(UTC)
Location: Texas

Applause Given: 347
Applause Received: 208

Originally Posted by: sschind Go to Quoted Post
Its not that they won't do anything, they can't do anything because there is nothing to do. I don't know what you mean about it being right and proper because it is right and proper. The Browns signed a guy off the practice squad and put him on their 53 man roster. That is all they had to do according to the rules. People are trying to read way more into this than there is. Packers fans seem to want to think that the Browns did something wrong, or are doing something wrong. They did not and they are not.

If the Browns wanted to void the contract they might be able to claim that someone was hiding something but since the Packers did not benefit anything from it they (the Browns) would be hard pressed to prove any deception on the part of the Packers. They may be able to claim Johnson knew and hid it but again, how can they prove it. Unless there is a doctor visit somewhere on record that says he had the injury before the signing there is really nothing they can prove. Besides, it doesn't sound like they want to contest it (if that is what you want to call it) anyway.

Face it Packers fans, Johnson got away and there is nothing anyone can do about it.



Basically, I agree with you. It ain't as if this was a trade where the Packers got something for him. The Browns clearly went from smart bargain hunter to victim, and Johnson benefited - by deception assuming he knew his condition, by luck if he didn't. He might, however, end up regretting it, because previously, the Packers would have paid for surgery if needed. Now, if the Browns think he cheated them and win their case, it's possible neither team would have to pay. The Packers could re-sign him if that happened, of course, but 4.3 speed probably would have become 4.5 or so, and we might not want him.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Offline djcubez  
#22 Posted : Friday, October 18, 2013 10:28:26 AM(UTC)
djcubez

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Posts: 1,750
Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee

Applause Given: 8
Applause Received: 13

From what I understand any team can sign a player from another teams practice quad to their 53 man roster. When that happens, the team whose practice quad the player is on has a chance to match the offer and place that player on their 53 man roster or let them go. Also from what I understand, teams that sign players off another teams practice squad are not allowed to give that player a physical until the player has accepted the offer and is on the roster.

With that said, Charles Johnson is already officially a Cleveland Browns player. The physical was done after they signed him. Basically the signing is not contingent on a physical, but rather the player being signed cannot be given a physical until after he's on the team. This makes snatch-and-grabs like this one a little more risky.

EDIT: Best article I could find on it: http://www.cbssports.com...ace-player-with-torn-acl

Quote:
Because Johnson was a practice squad player with another team, the Browns were unable to give him a physical until after they signed him. Since Cleveland signed Johnson from the Packers practice squad, the Browns are now stuck with him for at least two more weeks. Per NFL rules, a player that's signed off another team's practice squad has to be a part of the new team's 53-man roster for at least three games.
Check out my music webpage - Click Here
Offline Zero2Cool  
#23 Posted : Friday, October 18, 2013 10:37:05 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

Rank: Legend

United States
Posts: 25,219
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI

Applause Given: 1,738
Applause Received: 1,781

There are cases where the practice squad player does not tell his current team that a team is looking to sign him to their roster. If the player does't tell the current team prior to signing with the new team, then the 'current' team wasn't given a chance to bring them on board. This is what happened with Charles Johnson. Charles didn't tell the Packers, which per a report, left the Packers less than happy.


Edit, McCarthy on C.Johnson: "Fine young man. Wish he was here. I'm very curious to see how this pans out. I don't know if all the facts are in."

UserPostedImage
Click here and find the LATEST Packers News!
Offline Yerko  
#24 Posted : Friday, October 18, 2013 11:49:29 AM(UTC)
Yerko

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Posts: 1,849
Joined: 10/15/2008(UTC)
Location: Chicago, IL

Applause Given: 108
Applause Received: 196

Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
I have to think that in the NFL today, that any teams medical crew would be more on top of things than just taking a players word.
Perhaps that's why the Packers are so beset with serious injuries.



Bulaga was almost going to come back from a similar injury. They were contemplating on him playing. My guess is a torn ACL isn't something a medical crew is going to catch unless the player says something. This could easily be the case for this.

I only think that way because coming back may have been an option for Bulaga.
UserPostedImage
Offline sschind  
#25 Posted : Friday, October 18, 2013 2:53:41 PM(UTC)
sschind

Rank: 4th Round Draft Pick

United States
Posts: 752
Joined: 3/5/2013(UTC)
Location: SE WISCONSIN

Applause Given: 78
Applause Received: 307

Originally Posted by: djcubez Go to Quoted Post
From what I understand any team can sign a player from another teams practice quad to their 53 man roster. When that happens, the team whose practice quad the player is on has a chance to match the offer and place that player on their 53 man roster or let them go. Also from what I understand, teams that sign players off another teams practice squad are not allowed to give that player a physical until the player has accepted the offer and is on the roster.




The only correction I would make to your description is that the decision is still totally up to the player. If he doesn't want to go to the new team and he wants to stay on the old team on the PS he can. It's not like waivers where the new team acquires his rights. Gurley reportedly turned down an offer to joint he vikings 53 man roster to remain on the Packers PS a few years back. Of course the Packers matched his would be salary from the vikings but that is not a requirement. It was also reported somewhere that the Packers routinely pay their PS players more than the minimum PS salary to encourage them staying.

The question then becomes why would a player refuse a spot on an active roster to stay on the practice squad? Well, in the case of Gurley it was go to a train wreck of a team and be low man on the totem pole locked into a bad situation or stay with a great team with a great passing attack and compete for a likely spot next season. He may still be low man but the low man in the Packers offense is probably much better off than the low man in the vikings offense.

I fully respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#26 Posted : Friday, October 18, 2013 6:48:50 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

Rank: Legend

United States
Posts: 25,219
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI

Applause Given: 1,738
Applause Received: 1,781

Quote:
The Football Educator wants to completely clarify a situation that developed this past week when the Cleveland Browns decided to “raid” the Green Bay Packers Practice Squad and sign wide receiver Charles Johnson to their own 53-man active roster.

As per NFL Policy
A player signed to a Practice Player Contract remains a free agent in the National Football League; though he is not eligible to be given a tryout, he may terminate his Practice Player Contract at any time to sign an NFL Player Contract with any club. If a Practice Squad player terminates his contract at any time, the club is under no obligation to pay him for that week. However, a player under a Practice Player Contract with one club cannot sign a Practice Player Contract with another club unless the Practice Player Contract with the first club is terminated by the club.

TGC NFL LogoIf a player on the Practice Squad of one club signs an NFL Player Contract with another club (Club B), the following rules apply:

The player shall receive three weeks salary of his NFL Player Contract at the 53-player Active/Inactive List minimum even if he is terminated by Club B prior to earning that amount; and

Club B is required to count the player on its 53-player Active/Inactive List for three games (a bye week counts as a game) even if he is terminated, traded, or assigned via waivers to another club or is signed as a free agent to another club’s 53-player roster or another club’s Practice Squad prior to that time. If the player is terminated from Club B’s 53-player roster and signed to Club B’s Practice Squad, he shall continue to count on the club’s 53- player Active/Inactive List but shall not count against the eight-player Practice Squad limit until the three-game requirement has been fulfilled.

If the promotion occurs with fewer than three games remaining in the club’s regular season, the three-game requirement shall not carry over into the next season.

As noted by ProFootballTalk.com
NFL: Green Bay Packers-Rookie MinicampWhen the Browns put quarterback Brian Hoyer on injured reserve with a torn ACL, they replaced him on the roster by signing wide receiver Charles Johnson off the Packers practice squad.

But because it’s the Browns, it couldn’t be that simple.

According to Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram, the Browns discovered Johnson had a torn ACL when they gave him a physical, so they’re now placing him on the non-football injury list. He was signed last Saturday, but was inactive for Sunday’s game with the Lions. (Note – Evidently AFTER the Browns & Johnson executed the contract)

Because Johnson was a practice squad player with another team, the Browns were unable to give him a physical until after they signed him. ***WRONG*** Since Cleveland signed Johnson from the Packers practice squad, the Browns are now stuck with him for at least two more weeks. Per NFL rules, a player that’s signed off another team’s practice squad has to be a part of the new team’s 53-man roster for at least three games.

Reality sets in
TGC NFL TryoutsThere’s NOTHING in the handbook stating a club is prohibited from giving a player a physical prior to signing him to their roster. They’re only forbidden to put the player through a “tryout”. In fact it states any player on a club’s Practice Squad remains a free agent, and 99.9% of free agent signings are accompanied with a contingency of “passing the club’s physical”.
The more likely scenario was Cleveland was in a hurry to fill the roster opening, get him immediately out on the practice field, and pushed the signing through the process (perhaps to keep Green Bay from blocking it) without completing their most primary obligation; ensuring the acquired player is healthy.

Two things immediately jump out
First – The media (ProFootballTalk.com and CBSSports.com at the very least) has erroneously reported this story to Cleveland and NFL fans from the get go, and it spread to other reporting sources without them doing their homework as well. You know who you are if you printed it as such.

TGC Joe BannerSecond – The Browns made a ROOKIE mistake by a front office that should know better, and to try and spin that they might have wanted the player anyway, or that the Packers hid the injury is just that… pure spin. The Browns weren’t obligated to be stuck with an injured player. Had they followed normal protocol and given him a physical BEFORE signing (as they fully had the right to do), he would have reverted back to the Packers and been their problem to deal with.

The real question is whether or not Cleveland steps up and reimburses Charles Johnson ANYTHING as a result of placing him on Reserve/Non-Football Injury? They have the latitude to pay all, nothing, or any where in between, of his minimum Paragraph 5 (it’s up to them).

Johnson was making the NFL standard Practice Squad salary of $6000 per week, injured or not. The “right way of doing business” would be to ensure he’s making at the very least just that as a Cleveland Brown.

Somebody should give Craig Domann (Johnson’s agent) a call.


Read more: http://www.thefootballed...s-johnson/#ixzz2i80kdZAG

UserPostedImage
Click here and find the LATEST Packers News!
Online nerdmann  
#27 Posted : Saturday, October 19, 2013 12:13:13 AM(UTC)
nerdmann

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

Posts: 6,513
Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 2,104
Applause Received: 470

What a mess.

I hope the kid's ok. Still has potential to be a player.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages<12
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 2.1.0 | YAF © 2003-2014, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.833 seconds.