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Online nerdmann  
#1 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 3:44:18 PM(UTC)

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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Mark Chmura just said he spoke with Jermichael Finley and he's having surgery this Friday. I think that will conclude his NFL career, surely the Packers portion.



Lied to again. OH HE'LL RECOVER FULLY.

Great, then what is this extra surgery for? A bunyon? wtf
Offline Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 3:46:50 PM(UTC)

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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Lied to again. OH HE'LL RECOVER FULLY.

Great, then what is this extra surgery for? A bunyon? wtf


Who said he'd fully recover other than Finley himself?
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DoddPower on 11/11/2013(UTC)
Online nerdmann  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:09:33 AM(UTC)

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Guess we were lied to yet again.

OH HE'LL BE FINE, FULL RECOVERY. lol
Offline steveishere  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:30:59 AM(UTC)

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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Guess we were lied to yet again.

OH HE'LL BE FINE, FULL RECOVERY. lol


Don't remember anybody saying that
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DoddPower on 11/12/2013(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:58:36 PM(UTC)

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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Lied to again. OH HE'LL RECOVER FULLY.

Great, then what is this extra surgery for? A bunyon? wtf


Still waiting ... Who said he'd fully recover other than Finley himself?
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DoddPower on 11/12/2013(UTC)
Offline mi_keys  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2013 4:26:16 PM(UTC)

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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Still waiting ... Who said he'd fully recover other than Finley himself?


Don't hold your breath. You won't get a proper answer.
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DoddPower on 11/12/2013(UTC), steveishere on 11/12/2013(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#7 Posted : Friday, November 15, 2013 7:10:20 AM(UTC)

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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Lied to again. OH HE'LL RECOVER FULLY.

Great, then what is this extra surgery for? A bunyon? wtf


You can't say someone lied without proving it. Lets see it.
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earthquake on 11/15/2013(UTC)
Offline earthquake  
#8 Posted : Friday, November 15, 2013 7:50:56 AM(UTC)

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Yeah, the only the I recall reading from anyone employed by the packers was along the lines of "Its too early to tell, we hope he recovers to the point where he can live a normal life" etc. Nobody said anything about him playing football again, in fact I'm pretty sure anyone who was asked did their best to specifically NOT say anything about him ever playing football again.

So yeah, proof is required. List your source, post the quotes.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#9 Posted : Friday, November 15, 2013 8:08:55 AM(UTC)

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earthquake said: Go to Quoted Post
So yeah, proof is required. List your source, post the quotes.


That's all I'm asking. I mean, to call someone a liar is pretty heavy, you better have solid proof before running your mouth.
Offline StoicFire  
#10 Posted : Friday, November 15, 2013 9:02:42 AM(UTC)

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If you take Mark Chmura's word as fact (which I do not), then we weren't lied to so much as mislead. There was an obvious optimism in all the early articles.

They said things such as:
"The Packers have a history of career-ending neck injuries, as neither wide receiver Sterling Sharpe nor safety Nick Collins ever played again after undergoing cervical fusion surgery on their vertebrae. The difference in Finley's case is that there's no surgical procedure and no damage to the vertebrae."

Or:
"At this point, surgery is not deemed necessary, though it is an option, and Finley might elect to have surgery to completely eliminate any future risk. Per Rapoport, Finley is walking, talking, has regained his balance and is doing well." ... "Although there has been speculation that Finley's career might be in jeopardy, teammates who have visited him in the hospital insist he will make a comeback from the injury. Rapoport added that doctors also believe Finley will play again."

It strikes me as odd that he's so confident as to "bet his house" on the fact that Finley will never suit up for the Packers again. I'm just getting really tired of things being reported as fact before we actually know anything. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions at this point. I plan to remain optimistic and wish Finley the best.
Online nerdmann  
#11 Posted : Friday, November 15, 2013 9:22:23 AM(UTC)

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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
That's all I'm asking. I mean, to call someone a liar is pretty heavy, you better have solid proof before running your mouth.


Proof that they lie to us generally or proof that they misled us in this particular case?
Offline Zero2Cool  
#12 Posted : Friday, November 15, 2013 9:32:20 AM(UTC)

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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Proof that they lie to us generally or proof that they misled us in this particular case?


Define who "they" are and then what the LIE was about Jermichael Finley's recovery. You didn't say they mislead us, you said LIED to us, twice about Finley. Don't try backtracking.
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wpr on 11/15/2013(UTC)
Offline OlHoss1884  
#13 Posted : Friday, November 15, 2013 10:01:41 AM(UTC)

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I don't mean to be too cynical about it all (I sincerely hope Finley recovers and has no future health issues) but I think it was unlikely he would have been resigned anyway. I think the team feels good about the TE situation and would not have wanted to pony up big bucks for Finley next year anyway.

With the injury, we've only lost him a half a year early.
Offline mi_keys  
#14 Posted : Friday, November 15, 2013 10:18:55 AM(UTC)

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StoicFire said: Go to Quoted Post
If you take Mark Chmura's word as fact (which I do not), then we weren't lied to so much as mislead. There was an obvious optimism in all the early articles.

They said things such as:
"The Packers have a history of career-ending neck injuries, as neither wide receiver Sterling Sharpe nor safety Nick Collins ever played again after undergoing cervical fusion surgery on their vertebrae. The difference in Finley's case is that there's no surgical procedure and no damage to the vertebrae."

Or:
"At this point, surgery is not deemed necessary, though it is an option, and Finley might elect to have surgery to completely eliminate any future risk. Per Rapoport, Finley is walking, talking, has regained his balance and is doing well." ... "Although there has been speculation that Finley's career might be in jeopardy, teammates who have visited him in the hospital insist he will make a comeback from the injury. Rapoport added that doctors also believe Finley will play again."

It strikes me as odd that he's so confident as to "bet his house" on the fact that Finley will never suit up for the Packers again. I'm just getting really tired of things being reported as fact before we actually know anything. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions at this point. I plan to remain optimistic and wish Finley the best.


From the first article:

Quote:
Based on the feedback I've received from doctors at this point


Quote:
The difference in Finley's case is that there's no surgical procedure and no damage to the vertebrae.

To this point, all signs are positive on Finley's future.


From the second article:

Quote:
Coach Mike McCarthy has indicated that Finley still is seeking opinions from specialists before any decisions are made on his playing status.



And herein lies the problem. People are too impatient these days. People gloss over the caveats and take the headline or bits and pieces gospel. Both articles allude to the information available at that given point in time. Assuming the newest revelations from Chmura are correct, there wasn't vertebrae damage, it was a herniated disk.

We know from initial reports that swelling in the area was significant. I've heard that MRIs are not effective with significant swelling. If this is the case, is it not unreasonable to conclude initial MRIs did not uncover the herniated disk and now that swelling has gone done the diagnosis has changed?

And as for the teammates, I don't think it's surprising that they would believe he was coming back when the initial information was favorable. Finley is their friend, their coworker, to some of them a brother. Any glimmer of hope that he would come back and be okay they were going to latch on to.

Information changes. We still don't know the full story, but to jump to conclusions that we've been lied to or mislead are absurd, especially when they were very open about seeking out second, third and fourth opinions. We knew they were still gathering information. But again, people generally are just way too impatient.

And this isn't necessarily directed at you, Stoic, at least not entirely as your last paragraph, I feel, is the conservative approach people should take with information. There's a lot of people out there, either readers who cherry pick or writers who run with something as gospel or both; that really need to hit the brakes, stop and think about what information is available and what conclusions they can make.
Online nerdmann  
#15 Posted : Friday, November 15, 2013 10:24:46 AM(UTC)

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mi_keys said: Go to Quoted Post
From the first article:





From the second article:




And herein lies the problem. People are too impatient these days. People gloss over the caveats and take the headline or bits and pieces gospel. Both articles allude to the information available at that given point in time. Assuming the newest revelations from Chmura are correct, there wasn't vertebrae damage, it was a herniated disk.

We know from initial reports that swelling in the area was significant. I've heard that MRIs are not effective with significant swelling. If this is the case, is it not unreasonable to conclude initial MRIs did not uncover the herniated disk and now that swelling has gone done the diagnosis has changed?

And as for the teammates, I don't think it's surprising that they would believe he was coming back when the initial information was favorable. Finley is their friend, their coworker, to some of them a brother. Any glimmer of hope that he would come back and be okay they were going to latch on to.

Information changes. We still don't know the full story, but to jump to conclusions that we've been lied to or mislead are absurd, especially when they were very open about seeking out second, third and fourth opinions. We knew they were still gathering information. But again, people generally are just way too impatient.

And this isn't necessarily directed at you, Stoic, at least not entirely as your last paragraph, I feel, is the conservative approach people should take with information. There's a lot of people out there, either readers who cherry pick or writers who run with something as gospel or both; that really need to hit the brakes, stop and think about what information is available and what conclusions they can make.


I didn't save the articles, but as I recall, people were saying 3-4 weeks.

The team has been lying to us about injuries for some time now. Mike Neal's original knee injury was the first one that was really aggregious. NO DAMAGE, DAY TO DAY. Ended up missing the entire year.

For quite awhile, the defense was that "every team does it." Or that "they're lying for strategic reasons." lol

Ok, so now they're not liars at all.
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