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Offline play2win  
#1 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 7:14:39 AM(UTC)
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Goodbye, Mark Lovat!

To me, he should be the very first firing from this staff. Immediately.
thanks Post received 7 applause.
Dulak on 1/6/2014(UTC), packman82 on 1/6/2014(UTC), DakotaT on 1/6/2014(UTC), DoddPower on 1/6/2014(UTC), beast on 1/6/2014(UTC), Packerchick on 1/6/2014(UTC), nerdmann on 1/6/2014(UTC)
Offline rabidgopher04  
#2 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 7:23:36 AM(UTC)
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I agree but McCarthy is to loyal to make changes like that.
Do you like bacon?
thanks Post received 1 applause.
nerdmann on 1/6/2014(UTC)
Offline Mucky Tundra  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 7:27:08 AM(UTC)
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How many hamstring injuries has this team had in the past two years?
May not have the best looking number...but it's the sexiest! -David Bakhtiari
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
nerdmann on 1/6/2014(UTC)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#4 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 7:37:25 AM(UTC)
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If it is the conditioning program that is the problem, how does it explain AJ?

All they need to do is say. See AJ do what he does.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
Packerchick on 1/6/2014(UTC)
Offline musccy  
#5 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 7:57:45 AM(UTC)
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This is a contact sport. The strength and conditioning staff have zero control over broken collarbones, thumbs, tibias, femurs, and necks. $hit happens in football, and it's not as if the Packers are the only ones with hamstring injuries http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/12/20/dallas-cowboys-lose-another-starter-to-a-hamstring-injury-before-redskins-game/
thanks Post received 1 applause.
texaspackerbacker on 1/6/2014(UTC)
Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#6 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 7:59:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
This is a contact sport. The strength and conditioning staff have zero control over broken collarbones, thumbs, tibias, femurs, and necks. $hit happens in football, and it's not as if the Packers are the only ones with hamstring injuries http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/12/20/dallas-cowboys-lose-another-starter-to-a-hamstring-injury-before-redskins-game/


Vince Lombardi wrote:
Football is not a contact sport, it’s a collision sport – dancing is a contact sport
Delivering the latest and most important updates on the Green Bay Packers for your convenience.
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thanks Post received 3 applause.
Zero2Cool on 1/6/2014(UTC), play2win on 1/6/2014(UTC), DoddPower on 1/6/2014(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#7 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 8:07:01 AM(UTC)
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Toughness involves strength and conditioning. We are not tough. We lack sound strength and conditioning, among other things...
Offline musccy  
#8 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 8:21:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Toughness involves strength and conditioning. We are not tough. We lack sound strength and conditioning, among other things...


Lacy, Rodgers, Starks, Nelson, Sitton, Daniels, CM3... should lift and condition more. They're all wimps.

thanks Post received 2 applause.
dhpackr on 1/6/2014(UTC), DakotaT on 1/6/2014(UTC)
Offline dhpackr  
#9 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 8:26:34 AM(UTC)
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What injury affected this season the most?

IMO..Sam Sheilds, and there isn't anything any conditioning coach could've done to keep Sam on the field...

GB never replaced Nick Collins and Charles Woodson...again my thoughts, but this is the reason we were eliminated, not a conditioning coach..
So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
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Offline play2win  
#10 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 8:26:41 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
Lacy, Rodgers, Starks, Nelson, Sitton, Daniels, CM3... should lift and condition more. They're all wimps.



Really? No need to be snarky on the subject. Truth is, we have been one of the most injured teams in the NFL for 4 years in a row. You can't see a problem with that?Player availability was one of Mike McCarthy's key goals coming into this season. How did that work out?
Offline dhpackr  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 8:31:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Really? No need to be snarky on the subject. Truth is, we have been one of the most injured teams in the NFL for 4 years in a row. You can't see a problem with that?Player availability was one of Mike McCarthy's key goals coming into this season. How did that work out?


IMO, we played poor defense, that's why we lost. Not injuries...No conditioning coach can help CMIII, or Mike Neal.....

AJ got beat by Vernon Davis, Micah Hyde dropped a int, so did Williams...We just played poorly, and did not take advantage of great opportunities and got beat...

nothing to do with conditioning...

just sayin...

So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
Offline musccy  
#12 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 8:34:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Really? No need to be snarky on the subject. Truth is, we have been one of the most injured teams in the NFL for 4 years in a row. You can't see a problem with that?Player availability was one of Mike McCarthy's key goals coming into this season. How did that work out?


I'm being snarky because I get sick of reading these vague generalizations people keep posting today to be masqueraded as facts. The team isn't tough because they don't condition and lift?!? How do you KNOW this team doesn't lift/condition, and how do you know that doesn't make them tough? Furthermore, the general implication behind this thread is lifting/conditioning was the reason for the injuries this year, but REALLY?

Broken thumb, collarbone, tibia, Sam Shields getting rolled up on for a knee injury, Bahktiari's concussion - what conditioning (and now that "conditioning" is apparently synonymous with "toughness, so what "toughness routine") is going to fix those issues??

thanks Post received 2 applause.
dhpackr on 1/6/2014(UTC), StoicFire on 1/6/2014(UTC)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#13 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 8:42:35 AM(UTC)
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Last 5 seasons Most injured based on number of IR players

Jaguars 62
Panthers 55
Colts 53
Bills 51
Redskins 51
Bucs 50

Giants 49
Pats 49
Texans 49
Packers 49

Packers have had 09' - 8, 10' - 13, 11' - 4, 12' - 10, 13' - 14

The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline play2win  
#14 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 8:57:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhpackr Go to Quoted Post
IMO, we played poor defense, that's why we lost. Not injuries...No conditioning coach can help CMIII, or Mike Neal.....

AJ got beat by Vernon Davis, Micah Hyde dropped a int, so did Williams...We just played poorly, and did not take advantage of great opportunities and got beat...

nothing to do with conditioning...

just sayin...



Don't get me wrong, we have talent issues on both sides of the ball, and that does enter into the equation. However, we had many players who we could have used yesterday, but were not healthy enough to play:

Barrington hamstring
Bulaga ACL
Francois achilles
Hayward hamstring
Jolly neck
Nixon knee cartilage
…all of them on IR, probably the two most important losses for yesterday's game being Barrington and Hayward, both with hammys.

As a rule, do you consider Mike Neal to be "tough?" How available has he been over the last 3 years? We simply have had too many injuries these past 4 years, and not just too many, but oftentimes double what other teams are experiencing. EVERY YEAR FOR 4 YEARS! And, many here want to give Lovat yet another FREE PASS! wow.

Coaching, talent and health require upgrades on this Packers team. All 3 areas must be addressed. I would start by ditching Lovat and his crew, and replacing them with the best strength & conditioning group I could find.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:05:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Don't get me wrong, we have talent issues on both sides of the ball, and that does enter into the equation. However, we had many players who we could have used yesterday, but were not healthy enough to play:

Barrington hamstring
Bulaga ACL
Francois achilles
Hayward hamstring
Jolly neck
Nixon knee cartilage
…all of them on IR, probably the two most important losses for yesterday's game being Barrington and Hayward, both with hammys.

As a rule, do you consider Mike Neal to be "tough?" How available has he been over the last 3 years? We simply have had too many injuries these past 4 years, and not just too many, but oftentimes double what other teams are experiencing. EVERY YEAR FOR 4 YEARS! And, many here want to give Lovat yet another FREE PASS! wow.

Coaching, talent and health require upgrades on this Packers team. All 3 areas must be addressed. I would start by ditching Lovat and his crew, and replacing them with the best strength & conditioning group I could find.


Lovat was in charge in 2011 when there was only 4 players on IR. What is wrong with his program, what is different from others?

Truth be told, you have no idea what his conditioning program is?
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline play2win  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:10:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Last 5 seasons Most injured based on number of IR players

Jaguars 62
Panthers 55
Colts 53
Bills 51
Redskins 51
Bucs 50

Giants 49
Pats 49
Texans 49
Packers 49

Packers have had 09' - 8, 10' - 13, 11' - 4, 12' - 10, 13' - 14



14, 10 and 13 players on IR going back to 2010. I believe those numbers rank us top 7 or worse 3 out of the 4 years… we were #2 this year behind CAR with 15.
Offline play2win  
#17 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:11:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Lovat was in charge in 2011 when there was only 4 players on IR. What is wrong with his program, what is different from others?

Truth be told, you have no idea what his conditioning program is?


and you do?
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:19:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
and you do?


I'm not the one calling for any bodies job without knowing anything about his program.

Some players are always available under the same conditioning program where others are not? That seems more like the players not the program.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline musccy  
#19 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:22:29 AM(UTC)
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What conditioning program would have helped with these injuries:
Aaron Rodgers - broken bone
Cobb - broken bone
CM3 - broken bone
Jolly - neck injury
Finley - concussion/neck injury
Sherrod - broken bone
Franklin - concussion

I could keep going, and you could debatably add the ACL injuries of Worthy and Bulaga to this list as well, but point being that injuries happen in football. Hamstring issues are a concern, but they're also not exclusive to the Packers' roster.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
texaspackerbacker on 1/6/2014(UTC)
Offline Dulak  
#20 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:32:41 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
What conditioning program would have helped with these injuries:

Aaron Rodgers - broken bone
Cobb - broken bone
CM3 - broken bone
Jolly - neck injury
Finley - concussion/neck injury
Sherrod - broken bone
Franklin - concussion

I could keep going, and you could debatably add the ACL injuries of Worthy and Bulaga to this list as well, but point being that injuries happen in football. Hamstring issues are a concern, but they're also not exclusive to the Packers' roster.


A chiropractor, and a good nutritionist (get the peeps to eat better).

Offline musccy  
#21 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:41:17 AM(UTC)
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Packers new strength/conditioning coach/nutritionist

He'll fix everything for us.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
Dulak on 1/6/2014(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#22 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:44:40 AM(UTC)
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Adjusted Games Lost to Injury, for our best year out of the last 4 ranked us #16 in the NFL in 2011: http://www.footballoutsi...2011-adjusted-games-lost

Dead last (ranked #32) in 2012: http://www.footballoutsi...2012-adjusted-games-lost

What do you think it will be this year? Certainly rivaling 2010, when we ranked #30, or worse,: http://www.footballoutsi...0-agl-winners-and-losers

FYI, we ranked #25 in 2009… http://www.footballoutsi...justed-games-lost-totals

So, I guess this data points to everything being just fine in our Strength & Conditioning Dept….

"Adjusted Games Lost is a great metric that helps to ascertain the real impact of injuries on a team. In short, it gives teams credit not only for the actual games missed by starters, but for the consequences of injuries in terms of lost practice time and diminished performance.

Anytime a starer is ruled out, a team gets credit for one game lost. The team gets partial credit for games in which a starter is ruled probable, questionable or doubtful based on averages for how often these players actually play.

The result is a list that corresponds very well with winning. Eight of the top 10 teams and 12 of the top 15 in AGL finished with at least a .500 record." (re: 2011 season) http://bleacherreport.co...week-adjusted-games-lost
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#23 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:47:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Adjusted Games Lost to Injury, for our best year out of the last 4 ranked us #16 in the NFL in 2011: http://www.footballoutsi...2011-adjusted-games-lost

Dead last (ranked #32) in 2012: http://www.footballoutsi...2012-adjusted-games-lost

What do you think it will be this year? Certainly rivaling 2010, when we ranked #30, or worse,: http://www.footballoutsi...0-agl-winners-and-losers

FYI, we ranked #25 in 2009… http://www.footballoutsi...justed-games-lost-totals

So, I guess this data points to everything being just fine in our Strength & Conditioning Dept….


It doesn't point to either way.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline play2win  
#24 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:53:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
It doesn't point to either way.


It sure does. We have been a very unhealthy, injury prone team over the past 6 years. Only fools continue to make the same mistakes while expecting different results.

I would fire that staff today, if not 2 years ago...
Offline musccy  
#25 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 9:54:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Adjusted Games Lost to Injury, for our best year out of the last 4 ranked us #16 in the NFL in 2011: http://www.footballoutsi...2011-adjusted-games-lost

Dead last (ranked #32) in 2012: http://www.footballoutsi...2012-adjusted-games-lost

What do you think it will be this year? Certainly rivaling 2010, when we ranked #30, or worse,: http://www.footballoutsi...0-agl-winners-and-losers

FYI, we ranked #25 in 2009… http://www.footballoutsi...justed-games-lost-totals

So, I guess this data points to everything being just fine in our Strength & Conditioning Dept….

"Adjusted Games Lost is a great metric that helps to ascertain the real impact of injuries on a team. In short, it gives teams credit not only for the actual games missed by starters, but for the consequences of injuries in terms of lost practice time and diminished performance.

Anytime a starer is ruled out, a team gets credit for one game lost. The team gets partial credit for games in which a starter is ruled probable, questionable or doubtful based on averages for how often these players actually play.

The result is a list that corresponds very well with winning. Eight of the top 10 teams and 12 of the top 15 in AGL finished with at least a .500 record." (re: 2011 season) http://bleacherreport.co...week-adjusted-games-lost


So all this does is give an "atta boy" to teams that won a game when a starter was out, but says nothing about HOW those starters were out, which is what PFWT and I are trying to get at. None of us know what happens with the Packers' strength/conditioning.

You continue to ignore the nature of the injuries.

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