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packerfanoutwest  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 5:41:02 AM(UTC)
Just because he was the coach when the Pack won their last SB? None of the media will hold his feet to the fire other than Cheesehead TV. His play calling sucks, he doesn't know how to challenge plays very well. I have more to say, but I'll see how this topic goes.
Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 5:52:13 AM(UTC)
packerfanoutwest said: Go to Quoted Post
Just because he was the coach when the Pack won their last SB? None of the media will hold his feet to the fire other than Cheesehead TV. His play calling sucks, he doesn't know how to challenge plays very well. I have more to say, but I'll see how this topic goes.


Maybe you should spend less time reading a shock you website like Cheesehead TV and spend more time reading intelligent websites like PackersHome. Where we have bemoaned many things about Mike McCarthy. Go ahead, use the search, shouldn't be too hard to find complaints. :)
nerdmann  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 5:55:51 AM(UTC)
Never has his team ready to play. Constant lulls. They never show up for a full 60.

Abandons the run. Stat whores with Aaron. More concerned about using "multiple formations and personnel groupings to confuse defenses" than he is with calling plays. Excruciatingly predictable play calling. Low percentage plays.
Zero2Cool  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 8:18:22 AM(UTC)
Mike McCarthy is basically Marty Schottenheimer Jr. Always getting to the playoffs, not doing a lot when there.
musccy  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 8:25:44 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Never has his team ready to play. Constant lulls. They never show up for a full 60.

Abandons the run. Stat whores with Aaron. More concerned about using "multiple formations and personnel groupings to confuse defenses" than he is with calling plays. Excruciatingly predictable play calling. Low percentage plays.


If every team "showed up" for a full 60 minutes, every team would be 19-0.

Run to pass ratio on Sunday was 31 : 26

Wouldn't different formations help to make play calling less predictable by throwing off the defense?

I'm not (necessarily) defending him, but saying play calling is predictable is one of my biggest pet peeves to read on a message board. What makes for a bad play call? You don't know what matchups someone is trying to exploit, who missed a block on what otherwise could have been a great play, who ran the wrong route, didn't pull effectively - how can we as fans know this stuff? We just see a play gained "x" yards and assume it was stupid/brilliant.
DarkaneRules  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 8:30:51 AM(UTC)
I don't think he's the best coach in the league, but I think he is one of the top 5. I am content with that.
play2win  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 8:43:42 AM(UTC)
His teams make a LOT of mistakes, as does he himself in game time management. Nobody is perfect.

I think he is learning how to call a proper rushing attack. Clearly, he is still in the learning phase with that ridiculous call to Cobb out of the backfield on first and goal, when he had Lacy and Starks to pound the rock in there. He showed a real lack of confidence there, and I'm sure his team felt that too. Not good. Poor time management to end the first half with the extra time out. These things shouldn't be happening, but they are. Regardless, I think he is a good man, and is trying his best, and he is able to get his team together, at times, to win big games. The 2010 season was huge. Without that, he would be closer to the chopping block.

Personally, I am hoping for staff changes from him, and I am doubting highly that we will see that. That's another big knock on him in my book. I like him, but I'm pretty disappointed in his failings. The guy needs to take some action and make some real changes, as the Head Coach of this team, rather than just talking about what they need to fix with no results. Same thing every year for the last 3 years. That is starting to bug me.
sschind  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 8:45:34 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Never has his team ready to play. Constant lulls. They never show up for a full 60.

Abandons the run. Stat whores with Aaron. More concerned about using "multiple formations and personnel groupings to confuse defenses" than he is with calling plays. Excruciatingly predictable play calling. Low percentage plays.


do you know what I find interesting? Perception. You feel he abandons the run and Texas feels he runs too much. That's why nothing that anyone says on these forums really means anything. Not that it isn't fun to read.

By the way nerd, this isn't a knock on you (or Texas for that matter) I just used your thread to reply to.
mi_keys  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:03:21 AM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
do you know what I find interesting? Perception. You feel he abandons the run and Texas feels he runs too much. That's why nothing that anyone says on these forums really means anything. Not that it isn't fun to read.

By the way nerd, this isn't a knock on you (or Texas for that matter) I just used your thread to reply to.


When I was home over Christmas my father bitched that McCarthy controls everything, that he's sure he's right and wants to prove it, and everyone else is his puppet. A week later I was talking to a friend of mine at a new years party and he bitched that McCarthy doesn't do anything...

People are full of it.
sschind  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:08:28 AM(UTC)
musccy said: Go to Quoted Post
If every team "showed up" for a full 60 minutes, every team would be 19-0.

Run to pass ratio on Sunday was 31 : 26

Wouldn't different formations help to make play calling less predictable by throwing off the defense?

I'm not (necessarily) defending him, but saying play calling is predictable is one of my biggest pet peeves to read on a message board. What makes for a bad play call? You don't know what matchups someone is trying to exploit, who missed a block on what otherwise could have been a great play, who ran the wrong route, didn't pull effectively - how can we as fans know this stuff? We just see a play gained "x" yards and assume it was stupid/brilliant.


Someone would still have to lose even if they showed up for a full 60 minutes As for Smile

As for what makes a bad play call most of the time its whether the play works or not. A first down run for no gain is a bad call and predictable. A first down run that gains 6 yards is a good call. A second down run that gets stuffed for a 3 yard loss is a bad call and predictable. A second down run that gains 4 yards and a first down is a good call. A third and 1 pass that gets a TD is a good call that mixes things up a third and 1 pass that is intercepted is a bad call and abandoning the run.

Obviously there is a little more to it than that but what it really comes down to is execution on the field by the players and perception off the field by the fans. Yes, there are times when a particular play may not have been the best one to call but it still comes down to whether or not it works. No coach will call plays he doesn't think will work.

Predictable play calling is a bit different. The more predictable you are the less likelihood the play will succeed and I can see that in Mike McCarthy a quite a bit. The thing is, if you have the talent being predictable is not always bad.
rabidgopher04  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:13:30 AM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
Predictable play calling is a bit different. The more predictable you are the less likelihood the play will succeed and I can see that in Mike McCarthy a quite a bit. The thing is, if you have the talent being predictable is not always bad.


Wasn't it Lombardi or some other Packers guy in the 60's that said that everyone knew when the Green Bay sweep was coming or what the play was going to be, but that they key is in the execution?

musccy  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:17:38 AM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
Someone would still have to lose even if they showed up for a full 60 minutes As for Smile

As for what makes a bad play call most of the time its whether the play works or not. A first down run for no gain is a bad call and predictable. A first down run that gains 6 yards is a good call. A second down run that gets stuffed for a 3 yard loss is a bad call and predictable. A second down run that gains 4 yards and a first down is a good call. A third and 1 pass that gets a TD is a good call that mixes things up a third and 1 pass that is intercepted is a bad call and abandoning the run.

Obviously there is a little more to it than that but what it really comes down to is execution on the field by the players and perception off the field by the fans. Yes, there are times when a particular play may not have been the best one to call but it still comes down to whether or not it works. No coach will call plays he doesn't think will work.

Predictable play calling is a bit different. The more predictable you are the less likelihood the play will succeed and I can see that in Mike McCarthy a quite a bit. The thing is, if you have the talent being predictable is not always bad.


The Packers are the ONLY team that doesn't play a full 60 minutes, though :)

I'm pretty sure we're on the same page here so I'm just adding to, rather than refuting your points.

Rodgers audibles at the line, which makes it even tougher for us to know and thus critique what M.M. called. Furthermore, what is "predictable." In the most simplistic sense there's a 50-50 guess of what you'll do (run v. pass) but there is a lot more to a play than that - the routes you run, which side you run to, how you line up against the defense, I could go on, but you get my point.

As for your final point, didn't Lombardi once say that you should be able to tell the defense what play you're going to run and still gain at least 3 yards each time?
Zero2Cool  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 10:16:31 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Never has his team ready to play. Constant lulls. They never show up for a full 60.

Abandons the run. Stat whores with Aaron. More concerned about using "multiple formations and personnel groupings to confuse defenses" than he is with calling plays. Excruciatingly predictable play calling. Low percentage plays.


McCarthy 1, nerdmann 0.
PackFanWithTwins  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 10:23:19 AM(UTC)
I've had problems with McCarthy for a while. I have hated the offensive blocking scheme since he came here. This year I have actually seen him change from the outside zone to more inside zone blocking and with Lacy that seems to have helped. I think his 3rd down play calling as been terrible. I don't mind passing on third and short as long as they line up and threaten the Dline and LBers. They should NEVER be 5 wide and NEVER be in shotgun. Put Rodgers under center and you have the threat of QB sneak, have a RB in the backfield and the defense must at least pay attention for a run.

And what has become my biggest dislike of McCarthy is it seems like the passing offense has turned to either WR screen, or a sideline route either backshoulder. or run the WR 10-15 yards and then scramble drill.

We have all but given up the slant off the LOS like Favre did so well with so many WR. Now if we run a slant it is 3 yards upfield than slant. And that I think is because of being in the gun and the snap taking longer. So we never have a chance for a slant and go. And we very seldom screen.

He has turned the team into a dome team that plays in the elements.



Yerko  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 10:38:11 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Abandons the run.


The Packers ran the ball 31 times against a 49ers run defense, missing one of their better CBs...I know you are speaking in terms of the entire season but even then, he didn't really abandon the run.

He called three straight running plays to open the game against the 49ers and it failed miserably. Or is that because he is predictable and the 49ers knew he was going to call three straight run plays with Aaron Rodgers at QB?
cheeseheads123  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 10:49:57 AM(UTC)
If you take a quick look around the forum, you will see threads about how the Packers have been one of the most injured teams the last few years and threads calling for dom capers to be fired. Injuries and a bad defense? Tough to win with one of those never mind both of them. Somehow he always has this team right in the mix at the end of the year.
Mike McCarthy isn't perfect but hes a very good coach. Not to mention he dominates the NFC North Lets Box!
mi_keys  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 10:51:21 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
McCarthy 1, nerdmann 0.


You'd think with his constant statwhoring the score would be a bit more lopsided...
PackFanWithTwins  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 11:00:18 AM(UTC)
McCarthy has been relatively lucky in having a healthy QB and Receivers. This year is the first where he really had to face adversity on the offense. And I don't think he did a good job of changing the offense to match the skill of the players available. It took getting Flynn so he could again call plays about the same as he does for Rodgers for the offense to have any success.
cheeseheads123  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 11:04:42 AM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
McCarthy has been relatively lucky in having a healthy QB and Receivers. This year is the first where he really had to face adversity on the offense. And I don't think he did a good job of changing the offense to match the skill of the players available. It took getting Flynn so he could again call plays about the same as he does for Rodgers for the offense to have any success.


Healthy receivers?

Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Jermichael Finley,and Randall Cobb have all had injuries.
PackFanWithTwins  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 11:09:28 AM(UTC)
cheeseheads123 said: Go to Quoted Post
Healthy receivers?

Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Jermichael Finley,and Randall Cobb have all had injuries.


But before this year, it was more limited and there always another player to step in where the offense didn't need to be changed because of Rodgers throwing to them.
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