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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 5:56:26 AM(UTC)
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JSOnline wrote:
However free agency shakes out, the Packers probably will be counting on the first-rounder Datone Jones and fifth-rounder Josh Boyd to take on larger roles. The two rookies trended in opposite directions this season.
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Online Mucky Tundra  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 7:00:42 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
Defensive coordinator Dom Capers said Boyd possesses the "size and strength" to play the run in the defense, an apparent point of concern with Jones and the shorter Worthy.


So why did they spend first and second round draft picks on them?
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Offline DarkaneRules  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 7:12:47 AM(UTC)
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I believe in Jones, but was disappointed with his lack of production in certain games. Another year in the conditioning program and defensive scheme will serve him well. He has size comparable to one of my favorite ends in football Brett Keisel of the Steelers. I think he is worth moving around formations because I believe he has versatility.

I don't know what to make of Worthy. Fierce guy but where is the production? But I could say that about the DE position as a whole.

Boyd stood out to me when he was in. Made me forget about Raji. I hope he becomes the player the coaching staff believes he can be.

The real point of contention to me is pressure up the middle. Unless it is coming from Daniels, it doesn't seem to come from anyone else.
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Rockmolder on 1/8/2014(UTC)
Offline Rockmolder  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 7:15:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra Go to Quoted Post
So why did they spend first and second round draft picks on them?


Because they displayed some good play against the run in college.

Jones played the run quite well in college. I've seen him being compared to Justin Smith on some sites last year, not so much in skill, but in play style and measurements.

Worthy was supposed to be an overall good player with some flashes of brilliance. I think they hoped that he could just be inserted into any situation and just do his job.
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Offline musccy  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 7:34:01 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post
Because they displayed some good play against the run in college.

Jones played the run quite well in college. I've seen him being compared to Justin Smith on some sites last year, not so much in skill, but in play style and measurements.

Worthy was supposed to be an overall good player with some flashes of brilliance. I think they hoped that he could just be inserted into any situation and just do his job.


Worthy showed flashes last year, and I'm hoping his lack of production at the end of this season was primarily due to slowly coming back from his knee.

What concerns be about Jones is that Daniels, Boyd, and Worthy all seemed to be counted on more as their rookie seasons progressed...there were signs of improvement, and that pretty clearly was not the case with him. I'm glad he's saying all the right things right now, but I had high hopes for Manning and Des Bishop, and they turned out to be just talk before being let go.

Offline DoddPower  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:34:13 AM(UTC)
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I'd be fine if Jones and/or Worthy could just be good to very good pass rushers. Finding bigger bodies that are decent against the run like CJ Wilson, Boyd, etc. are easier to find than highly effective pass rushing big man. Especially with how often the Packers play sub-packages. Obviously it would be better if they could do both well, but if I had to choose, I'd pick pass rushing skills over run skills. Focus on rushing the passer and work on playing the run in time as they continue to gain strength and possibly bulk. The Packers defense is never going to be very good if they can't find a consistent pass rush. When Rodgers is healthy, the Packers defense is going to be playing the pass very often. Got to find a way to consistently pressure the QB.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 12:01:38 PM(UTC)
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I was really happy when we drafted Datone Jones, and to a lesser extent, when we got Worthy. I saw them as upgrades in athleticism - something the Packers badly needed - from the big clods we have been playing in the D-Line. Boyd may be a big clod like Raji and Pickett, but he at least gets the job done a lot better on the field than those two fat pigs.

The Packers have plenty of D-Line quality in house without drafting a D-Lineman early. Datone, Worthy, Daniels best of all, Boyd, maybe Neal back to DE, maybe retaining Wilson, THAT is the nucleus of a good rotation. Anything more we can get from low rounders and UDFAs.

The biggest key, though, is GET RAJI AND PICKETT OUT OF TOWN!
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Offline beast  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 2:16:43 PM(UTC)
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I'm nervous about the DL, because that can make or break a defense and they haven't been the best this year and could be losing some of their better guys.


As far as Jones, Boyd and Worthy go... I seem them as rookies until they have their first healthy full offseason which none of them have had yet (Worthy wasn't healthy this last off season).


I'd like to see some of the vets back. I'm hoping they can bring Pickett, Jolly and Wilson back for cheap... though I don't know what is up with Jolly's neck injury... as well as maybe get another very good DL guy in the draft.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 2:32:39 PM(UTC)
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I think it is incorrect to say they trended in opposite directions. Datone actually came on later in the season after being slowed earlier with an injury. I would say both got stronger in the defense as the season wound down. They were just used different, Boyd because of his size was used more in run support and also go time in pass situations, where Datone was predominately a Dime Pass rusher.

I think Boyd is about at the right weight, where Datone needs to get to about 295/300 lbs to be at his best weight for the defense.
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Offline DakotaT  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 6:01:25 PM(UTC)
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Are we all pretty much in agreement that the Raj needs to hit free agency and not let the door hit him in the ass? I really don't want to see Pickett as a starter anymore, but if he accepted a rotational role on a veteran team friendly deal it would be OK.

Boyd and Jones have earned their spots on this team. I also hope Johnny Jolly is back because he plays with a lot of heart.
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Offline beast  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 6:24:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I really don't want to see Pickett as a starter anymore, but if he accepted a rotational role on a veteran team friendly deal it would be OK.

Boyd and Jones have earned their spots on this team. I also hope Johnny Jolly is back because he plays with a lot of heart.


If Pickett out plays the rest to EARN a starting role AGAIN then he deserves to start. It's not his fault others couldn't out play him... even when he was asked to play out of position at the 3-4 DE spot... they still didn't beat him out. I say resign Pickett to a team fiendly (hopefully cheap) deal and let him compete with everyone else for their spot, and don't give anyone a spot... maybe them earn it.

That being said I'm pretty sure Pickett (if resign) would be the starting NT again unless they sign someone new in FA or hit a homerun on someone in the draft.

Hopefully the others can out play Pickett when their is no NT.


I hope Jolly is healthy again... and him and Pickett are able to play another year for the Packers. Both of them play with a lot of heart. Though Pickett has no pass rush... Jolly does have some.
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Offline DakotaT  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 7:19:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beast Go to Quoted Post
If Pickett out plays the rest to EARN a starting role AGAIN then he deserves to start. It's not his fault others couldn't out play him... even when he was asked to play out of position at the 3-4 DE spot... they still didn't beat him out. I say resign Pickett to a team fiendly (hopefully cheap) deal and let him compete with everyone else for their spot, and don't give anyone a spot... maybe them earn it.

That being said I'm pretty sure Pickett (if resign) would be the starting NT again unless they sign someone new in FA or hit a homerun on someone in the draft.

Hopefully the others can out play Pickett when their is no NT.


I hope Jolly is healthy again... and him and Pickett are able to play another year for the Packers. Both of them play with a lot of heart. Though Pickett has no pass rush... Jolly does have some.



If the best we can do is Pickett at NT, then this team is in a lot more trouble than we think it is.
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Offline beast  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 7:40:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
If the best we can do is Pickett at NT, then this team is in a lot more trouble than we think it is.


He's the best NT they've had for years... they tried Raji there because his pass rush and hoped he'd devolop run stuffing but he didn't... and he lost his pass rushing...

And Pickett had a down year, maybe due to injury and maybe do to age... and they do need a long term replacement, but he's a decent run stopper and the best the Packers have had.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 7:47:08 PM(UTC)
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To bring in a top DT/NT through FA would run up 5-11 million/yr. So the question becomes, how much can we afford to spend keeping Dlineman.

Jolly,Raji,Pickett are the three we have that can handle the NT position. How much would we be willing to pay them per/yr.

If we don't bring Raji back and go with Jolly and/or Pickett because of their age, it means we need to look for a NT in the draft.

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Offline DakotaT  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 8:45:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
To bring in a top DT/NT through FA would run up 5-11 million/yr. So the question becomes, how much can we afford to spend keeping Dlineman.

Jolly,Raji,Pickett are the three we have that can handle the NT position. How much would we be willing to pay them per/yr.

If we don't bring Raji back and go with Jolly and/or Pickett because of their age, it means we need to look for a NT in the draft.



We have Boyd and Daniels too.

And for those that say Pickett and Raji are the best we have, well I say that is not good enough and a total cop out. I prefer Raji and Pickett off the roster and bring in other guys. Those two get no push up the middle, and the Packers run defense has been getting gashed repeatedly. Raji and Pickett offer nothing for pass rush either. So somebody please explain to me, like I'm a four year old child, why it is we need to keep either of these players that look as if they are just going through the motions instead of playing with passion and heart.
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