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Offline nerdmann  
#1 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 3:34:52 PM(UTC)
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Josh Alper wrote:
The Packers had a rough year defensively in 2013 as injuries took several key players away from a unit that struggled to stop just about every opponent that came their way. As a result, head coach Mike McCarthy said Monday that the "defense is going to change some' for the 2014 season. McCarthy didn't delve...
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline DakotaT  
#2 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 5:03:45 PM(UTC)
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I'm not going to be holding my breath. SSALY. Just get rid of the lazy fat asses and the light in the asses who can't tackle and I'll be happy.
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Offline Wade  
#3 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 5:58:38 PM(UTC)
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The changes that are coming:

1. Packers will draft at least two defensive players in first three rounds. All will get us all enthusiastic and we'll argue about their potential to develop for three years.
2. Some late round picks/post-draft rookie FAs will light up minicamps/training camp, and we'll get all excited and they'll get lost on special teams and the inactive list.
3. Next year this time we'll be debating the "potential" of different players as we debate the wisdom of putting all the eggs in the draft-and-develop basket.

(SSALY, Troy? Wazzat?)
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
thanks Post received 2 applause.
Mucky Tundra on 2/10/2014(UTC), musccy on 2/11/2014(UTC)
Offline Wade  
#4 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 6:00:10 PM(UTC)
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p.s. What will make me seriously upset is if they let Shields go and re-sign Raji.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
thanks Post received 4 applause.
DakotaT on 2/10/2014(UTC), texaspackerbacker on 2/10/2014(UTC), mi_keys on 2/10/2014(UTC), Laser Gunns on 2/11/2014(UTC)
Offline DakotaT  
#5 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 6:28:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
The changes that are coming:

1. Packers will draft at least two defensive players in first three rounds. All will get us all enthusiastic and we'll argue about their potential to develop for three years.
2. Some late round picks/post-draft rookie FAs will light up minicamps/training camp, and we'll get all excited and they'll get lost on special teams and the inactive list.
3. Next year this time we'll be debating the "potential" of different players as we debate the wisdom of putting all the eggs in the draft-and-develop basket.

(SSALY, Troy? Wazzat?)


Acronym for Same Shit As Last Year!
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
Wade on 2/11/2014(UTC)
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#6 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 6:53:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
The changes that are coming:

1. Packers will draft at least two defensive players in first three rounds. All will get us all enthusiastic and we'll argue about their potential to develop for three years.
2. Some late round picks/post-draft rookie FAs will light up minicamps/training camp, and we'll get all excited and they'll get lost on special teams and the inactive list.
3. Next year this time we'll be debating the "potential" of different players as we debate the wisdom of putting all the eggs in the draft-and-develop basket.

(SSALY, Troy? Wazzat?)


Kinda pessimistic, dontcha think?

1. It's pretty much a slam dunk - 2 of 3, I'd guess 3 of 3 first draft picks. We were right to be excited about Datone Jones; I hope/think he justifies it next season - why? It's not uncommon for a D Lineman to take a year or two or three to reach his peak. Wasn't Daniels a 3rd round pick? Doing that good or better this time with LB picks might be enough if we can solve Safety in free agency.

2. That's about what you expect from late rounders and UDFAs, isn't it? Any more is gravy. The only one last year I saw much in was Mulumba, and there's still decent hope he amounts to something.

3. I don't recall much debate last off season about scrapping or seriously augmenting draft and develop - if it was going on, I was on the anti- side then. Hell, I still am if you're talking any change that's really significant.

We're CLOSE, real close. As the evil one correctly stated, addition by subtraction - just getting RID of Raji and Pickett will do wonders. That, getting/staying reasonably healthy, adding one Safety - either FA or Collins, and getting a couple early round LBs, nothing more extreme than that will do it. The question is, will Ted Thompson do even that little bit?

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Offline sschind  
#7 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 8:19:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Kinda pessimistic, dontcha think?


2. That's about what you expect from late rounders and UDFAs, isn't it? Any more is gravy. The only one last year I saw much in was Mulumba, and there's still decent hope he amounts to something.

We're CLOSE, real close. As the evil one correctly stated, addition by subtraction - just getting RID of Raji and Pickett will do wonders. That, getting/staying reasonably healthy, adding one Safety - either FA or Collins, and getting a couple early round LBs, nothing more extreme than that will do it. The question is, will Ted Thompson do even that little bit?



Anyone who gets excited about the prospect of late rounders and UDFAs making a big impact in their first year is only setting themselves up for disappointment. It can happen but it is rare.

As Packer fans maybe its the only thing we can hang our hopes on because A) Ted Thompson has not been a big player in free agency and B) our track record for first round picks has not been stellar when injuries and such are factored in. That leaves us with a high performing late round pick or UDFA to look to as an impact player.

I agree with you about Jones and Daniels, This may be the year (how long have we been saying that though) that 2 guys step up and who knows, maybe a first rounder can actually contribute more than very spot duty.

Of course it is also difficult to discount the potential for SSALY.

I guess I choose to be optimistic. I don't expect a big FA signing but I am hopeful for a moderate one, maybe a starter at Safety or DL or TE or center or LB or whatever position. If we can land 1 starter better than a guy we have we are already ahead of the game. If we can sign Shields and a few other of our own key free agents (I'd like to see J. Jones, Starks and EDS but I'll let you argue your own guys) it will keep us strong on offense and finally if Bulaga and D. Jones and Sherrod can contribute for a full season like we hoped they would when drafted and if Daniels can keep improving I think we are looking pretty good. Add to that a nice crop of rookies and I think we get better, maybe even much better.

I know there are a lot of IFs in there and the last few years have not really given us any indication that these IFs will come to fruition but like I said I like to think on the positive side. I suppose I could go into the season thinking we are going to suck and then if we do well I will not be disappointed but I can't do that. I have to look on the bright side.

I respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
Offline DakotaT  
#8 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 8:52:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post


We're CLOSE, real close. As the evil one correctly stated, addition by subtraction - just getting RID of Raji and Pickett will do wonders. That, getting/staying reasonably healthy, adding one Safety - either FA or Collins, and getting a couple early round LBs, nothing more extreme than that will do it. The question is, will Ted Thompson do even that little bit?



Middle Finger

I can't believe you can say shit like that and not be struck down by lightning. Rolling On The Floor Laughing
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#9 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 11:46:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Middle Finger

I can't believe you can say shit like that and not be struck down by lightning. Rolling On The Floor Laughing


hahahaha Nice self portrait (the red one). Nobody can ever say you don't know yourself.

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Offline Laser Gunns  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:18:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
p.s. What will make me seriously upset is if they let Shields go and re-sign Raji.


I had a nightmare where they tagged Raji.... Puke




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Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
Offline El3ment12  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:04:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
p.s. What will make me seriously upset is if they let Shields go and re-sign Raji.


Is it even possible for us to do something THAT stupid?
Offline play2win  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:11:37 AM(UTC)
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So, the defense is going to change? Good. I would love to see them mix it up a bit more and be less predictable. The only way that happens though is by changing out a good number of players: SS, NT, DE, ILB, OLB - at the very least.

Thinking Brad Jones carries any instincts needed at ILB is crazy. The weak showing of Raji should mean the door. MD Jennings should not be allowed back onto this team, I don't care if he plays for free. Morgan Burnett either has to move back to FS, or we get a proven vet to pair with him. No more CJ Wilson. If we re- sign Pickett, it should be as a backup. House? What has he done to earn his keep?

Change out these positions with upgrades and we are automatically better. I think doing so this year is impossible via draft alone.
thanks Post received 2 applause.
Dulak on 2/11/2014(UTC), texaspackerbacker on 2/11/2014(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:47:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
So, the defense is going to change? Good. I would love to see them mix it up a bit more and be less predictable. The only way that happens though is by changing out a good number of players: SS, NT, DE, ILB, OLB - at the very least.

Thinking Brad Jones carries any instincts needed at ILB is crazy. The weak showing of Raji should mean the door. MD Jennings should not be allowed back onto this team, I don't care if he plays for free. Morgan Burnett either has to move back to FS, or we get a proven vet to pair with him. No more CJ Wilson. If we re- sign Pickett, it should be as a backup. House? What has he done to earn his keep?

Change out these positions with upgrades and we are automatically better. I think doing so this year is impossible via draft alone.


Brad Jones can cover. He's also got versatility to play OLB if needed. This staff LOVES versatility.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline play2win  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:17:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Brad Jones can cover. He's also got versatility to play OLB if needed. This staff LOVES versatility.


He couldn't cover last season. But, he got paid… and promptly mailed it in. I would cut his ass tomorrow. That is NOT what we need at ILB.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
texaspackerbacker on 2/11/2014(UTC)
Offline DakotaT  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:51:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
hahahaha Nice self portrait (the red one). Nobody can ever say you don't know yourself.



Yeah, well, what pisses you off is that I know you too well, Transparent Texas.
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Offline Wade  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:35:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: El3ment12 Go to Quoted Post
Is it even possible for us to do something THAT stupid?


Well, they did sign Brad Jones last year to a deal I was amazed by.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline Wade  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:11:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Brad Jones can cover. He's also got versatility to play OLB if needed. This staff LOVES versatility.


IMO he is versatile in his mediocrity only.

He's serviceable as a backup. He isn't what I want in a starter linebacker. On the other hand, I grew up watching a team whose weakest starting LB was Lee Roy Caffey. Whose weakest starting DL was Bob Brown. Whose weakest starting DB was Dom Brown.

If the Packers had the 2014 equivalent of Caffey, Brown, and Brown quality at all defensive positions, with no Hall of Famer/All Pro types at all, they'd be head and shoulders above the current Packer defense in putting fear into the minds of opposing teams.

One could say the same thing of an OL whose starting players were no better than the 2014 equivalent of Bob Skoronski.

That's why I bitch so much. Forget about all the Hall of Famers. The current OL and defense are, IMO not up to the standards of the weaker parts of the Lombardi era teams.

IMO.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
thanks Post received 1 applause.
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Offline DakotaT  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:29:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
IMO he is versatile in his mediocrity only.

He's serviceable as a backup. He isn't what I want in a starter linebacker. On the other hand, I grew up watching a team whose weakest starting LB was Lee Roy Caffey. Whose weakest starting DL was Bob Brown. Whose weakest starting DB was Dom Brown.

If the Packers had the 2014 equivalent of Caffey, Brown, and Brown quality at all defensive positions, with no Hall of Famer/All Pro types at all, they'd be head and shoulders above the current Packer defense in putting fear into the minds of opposing teams.

One could say the same thing of an OL whose starting players were no better than the 2014 equivalent of Bob Skoronski.

That's why I bitch so much. Forget about all the Hall of Famers. The current OL and defense are, IMO not up to the standards of the weaker parts of the Lombardi era teams.

IMO.





Shut up old man, I don't remember any of those jabronies and I'm getting ancient too. Rolling On The Floor Laughing

We only have 4 or 5 top 100 players on our team. Time for another good draft.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:07:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
IMO he is versatile in his mediocrity only.

He's serviceable as a backup. He isn't what I want in a starter linebacker. On the other hand, I grew up watching a team whose weakest starting LB was Lee Roy Caffey. Whose weakest starting DL was Bob Brown. Whose weakest starting DB was Dom Brown.

If the Packers had the 2014 equivalent of Caffey, Brown, and Brown quality at all defensive positions, with no Hall of Famer/All Pro types at all, they'd be head and shoulders above the current Packer defense in putting fear into the minds of opposing teams.

One could say the same thing of an OL whose starting players were no better than the 2014 equivalent of Bob Skoronski.

That's why I bitch so much. Forget about all the Hall of Famers. The current OL and defense are, IMO not up to the standards of the weaker parts of the Lombardi era teams.

IMO.



Nice Blast from the Past.

I tend to agree with you, but the Packers were kinda a bend-don't-break defense even back then - more finesse than a lot of teams. Detroit then/Detroit now - the more things change the more things stay the same, D anyway.

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Offline yooperfan  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:52:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
IMO he is versatile in his mediocrity only.

He's serviceable as a backup. He isn't what I want in a starter linebacker. On the other hand, I grew up watching a team whose weakest starting LB was Lee Roy Caffey. Whose weakest starting DL was Bob Brown. Whose weakest starting DB was Dom Brown.

If the Packers had the 2014 equivalent of Caffey, Brown, and Brown quality at all defensive positions, with no Hall of Famer/All Pro types at all, they'd be head and shoulders above the current Packer defense in putting fear into the minds of opposing teams.

One could say the same thing of an OL whose starting players were no better than the 2014 equivalent of Bob Skoronski.

That's why I bitch so much. Forget about all the Hall of Famers. The current OL and defense are, IMO not up to the standards of the weaker parts of the Lombardi era teams.

IMO.

Excellent post.
That's right in my wheelhouse.




Offline Wade  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:48:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Shut up old man, I don't remember any of those jabronies and I'm getting ancient too. Rolling On The Floor Laughing

We only have 4 or 5 top 100 players on our team. Time for another good draft.


That's part of the point. Even the guys that "no one remembers" (except old guys like yooper and I) on the Lombardi-era team were at a higher quality level than today's Packer defense.
When you're worse than a team with no memorable names, you're not very good.

Promising you'll be better, when it looks like you're relying on the same worse-than-less-than-memorable-old-fart-teams, is a hollow sort of promise.

It might happen. But I'm not holding my breath.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:09:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Shut up old man, I don't remember any of those jabronies and I'm getting ancient too. Rolling On The Floor Laughing

We only have 4 or 5 top 100 players on our team. Time for another good draft.


Big Grin
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Offline musccy  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:24:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post


We only have 4 or 5 top 100 players on our team. Time for another good draft.


100 players / 32 teams = 3.125, so we're above the avg. then.

On offense I think many will agree we're not far off, or at least have an offense that isn't holding the team back from succeeding.

As for the defense, this is a bit of a SSALY wishful thinking from a fan, but there is some young talent that should be able to either develop or get healthy over the offseason. Worthy, Hayward, D. Jones, and Boyd all come to mind. We saw the leap Daniels made in year two, and although it doesn't guarantee those four will, it does offer reason to be optimistic. Texas and I are apparently glass half full people when it comes to the youth on this defense, but I agree that the team, specifically the D, is closer than we realize if we can just get a little more help at safety and LB.



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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 12:21:05 PM(UTC)
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It would be interesting to know how they judge "top 100" - past performance - how recent?, potential - according to ?, wild guess, etc.

The math notwithstanding, I'd kinda like the Packers to be farther above average than that.

Yeah, I'm fairly optimistic about our young D Linemen - just getting Raji and Pickett out of there will help, but a rotation of Daniels, Worthy, D. Jones, Boyd, and Jolly seems pretty good - maybe adding a low round gem to that. Any of those young guys could step up and be top 100.
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
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Offline nerdmann  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 5:54:48 PM(UTC)
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Saints move on from Smith, Harper, Greer, Vilma

Quote:
Four key defensive players won’t be back with the team in 2014. The Saints have terminated the contracts of linebacker Will Smith, cormerback Jabari Greer, and safety Roman Harper. The team also announced that linebacker Jonathan Vilma (pictured) will not be re-signed.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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