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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:17:16 PM(UTC)
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Early April Fools?
Delivering the latest and most important updates on the Green Bay Packers for your convenience.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:24:04 PM(UTC)
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If it is going to happen, it is about time to do it. Only a couple year window before Rodgers and Matthews contract will be looked at again and when Lacy will be ready for a contract also.

Grab FA and spend money, and draft youth to develop behind them.
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Offline wpr  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:05:37 PM(UTC)
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yeah yeah yeah. We shall see.
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Offline Laser Gunns  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:54:48 PM(UTC)
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Uh huh.

I'll believe it when I see it.


MintBaconDrivel

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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#5 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:21:42 AM(UTC)
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Curtis Crabtree wrote:
March signals the start of free agency across the NFL. For everyone except the Green Bay Packers that is. While the rest of the league traditionally dabbles in the free agent process by courting players from other teams, the Packers, under general manager Ted Thompson, have traditionally stood watch from the sidelines. But with money...


Unless Ted is planning on completely cleaning house of all The Packers UrFA's, I just don't see where there is much money to be spent elsewhere.

"While the Packers will have decisions to make on defensive tackle B.J. Raji, nose tackle Ryan Pickett, tight end Jermichael Finley and center Evan Dietrich-Smith among others, the Packers will still likely have enough room to pursue other players outside their organization."

Of The four players the writer listed, EDS is the only one I expect back that would cost significant money, Pickett will come back at a very low cost or he will go elsewhere.

Raji and Finley will be offered more money elsewhere and will probably be gone, but that still leaves Shields, Jolly, Wilson, Neal, Francois, Lattimore, Jennings and Banjo on the defensive side....Quarless, Flynn, Kuhn, Jones, and Starks on offense.

I don't expect all of them back, but Shields alone is going to take up anywhere from 6-9 mil(depending on source), then there is the money for signing the rookies, plus Ted has always kept money in reserve for injury emergencies.

This FA talk, imho, still starts with what The Packers do with Tramon Williams, he is the one guy who's contract can be reworked, adding significant money to use this year in FA.

Message modified by user Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:44:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline musccy  
#6 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 9:05:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Unless Ted is planning on completely cleaning house of all The Packers UrFA's, I just don't see where there is much money to be spent elsewhere.


This FA talk, imho, still starts with what The Packers do with Tramon Williams, he is the one guy who's contract can be reworked, adding significant money to use this year in FA.


You said everything I was about to write after reading the initial post. If and only if Tramon is willing to restructure do I see any real movements in FA, and as had been said before in other threads, it takes two to tango. The Packers pursued FAs in the past, e.g. Steven Jackson, but he opted not to come to the Packers.

Offline Yerko  
#7 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 10:37:34 AM(UTC)
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The article that was also written off this said "up to five outside free agents" which then made me stop reading the entire thing because seriously, do they REALLY think Ted Thompson is going to go after five outside (of the Packers) free agents? C'mon now...

Article, if interested.


If anything, I hope the Packers do dabble in outside free agency and sign at least one big player. While I found the news extremely unrealistic, it played with my mind a bit thinking about who the Packers could pick up. Three names come to my mind immediately.

Top 2
Brian Orakpo- Imagine the possible pass rush he brings opposite side Clay Matthews. He's strong, athletic and also rushes strong side. This pick up would give Capers the versatility the Packers have been speaking about the past week or so. The reason safety is not my #1 is because I think this is a strong draft for safeties.

T.J. Ward- Young safety looking for a payday. Supposedly he wants to stay in Cleveland though (at least someone does?). This would shore up the defensive backfield a bit and pairing him with Burnett might just help Burnett's game as they play together. No more second-third rate safeties, please.

Others
Henry Melton- Torn ACL, recent public intoxication/assault arrest and already once franchise tagged by the Bears, there's a good chance he might not be back with the Bears and might not be too costly. He's a risk but he is a disruptive (and bigger) defensive lineman. Something the Packers can use for their pass rush.

Jason Worilds- He's looking for a starting gig and the Steelers can't promise him that. Aside from Clay Matthews, Worilds could most likely out-perform anyone else at OLB on the Packers roster. Would be on the cheaper end of FA-OLBs.

I know all this is a stretch, but since it is being put out there by the media outside of Green Bay it doesn't hurt to talk about it.
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Offline steveishere  
#8 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:10:12 PM(UTC)
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I still doubt being "active participants" in FA meas big names and big $$. I could see them adding more substantial players than usual though if not the guys like Byrd or Orakpo.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#9 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:58:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
If it is going to happen, it is about time to do it. Only a couple year window before Rodgers and Matthews contract will be looked at again and when Lacy will be ready for a contract also.

Grab FA and spend money, and draft youth to develop behind them.


What SHOULD happen and what WILL happen may be two very different things. I agree with you completely, but it would take a drastic departure from the Ted Thompson way.

The post(s) above I have the biggest quarrel with are those saying we somehow CAN'T - we can't get one or two quality free agents and still re-sign the guys we need to keep? COME ON! First of all, if other teams can do it, certainly the Packers can. More importantly, though, there is creative financing to stay within the cap. I see no reason why we can't, for example, save $6 million plus cap money by extending/restructuring Tramon Williams - and I mean without degrading him by forcing him to take a worse deal to avoid being cut. Lang and Sitton should be similar situations. Nelson and later Cobb should be signable with big back-loaded contracts. If I and other posters can calculate cap-friendly deals, certainly Thompson and his gang can do that - IF they are disposed to try.

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Offline DakotaT  
#10 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:06:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
What SHOULD happen and what WILL happen may be two very different things. I agree with you completely, but it would take a drastic departure from the Ted Thompson way.

The post(s) above I have the biggest quarrel with are those saying we somehow CAN'T - we can't get one or two quality free agents and still re-sign the guys we need to keep? COME ON! First of all, if other teams can do it, certainly the Packers can. More importantly, though, there is creative financing to stay within the cap. I see no reason why we can't, for example, save $6 million plus cap money by extending/restructuring Tramon Williams - and I mean without degrading him by forcing him to take a worse deal to avoid being cut. Lang and Sitton should be similar situations. Nelson and later Cobb should be signable with big back-loaded contracts. If I and other posters can calculate cap-friendly deals, certainly Thompson and his gang can do that - IF they are disposed to try.



Yeah, yeah - you're the clown that thinks a person can live like a king on $1,200 a month. Rolling Eyes I say Matthews is the guy that should be taking a pay cut. What do we get about 12 games a year out of him. Tramon can just play out the contract he has and hopefully Hayward will be ready to take over by then.

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Offline psico  
#11 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:33:58 PM(UTC)
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IF true (which I highly doubt), it is a fundamental shift in philosophy to what made the Packers superbowl champions. Personnell is the big question mark, along with scheme.
Offline sschind  
#12 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 7:59:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, yeah - you're the clown that thinks a person can live like a king on $1,200 a month. Rolling Eyes I say Matthews is the guy that should be taking a pay cut. What do we get about 12 games a year out of him. Tramon can just play out the contract he has and hopefully Hayward will be ready to take over by then.


They just gave Matthews his contract last year right? They aren't going to be redoing it this soon.

As far as Williams goes I think it comes down to whether or not the Packers want to keep him after this year. If they do then they can easily come up with some sort of extension that will give him his 7.5 million his year and still ease the cap hit. If they have no interest in resigning him after this season they might as well cut him loose now and use the 7.5 million on someone they want to have around.

You have said (at least I think it was you) that Williams has no incentive to renegotiate or restructure or basically do anything that would help the Packers cap wise. If he plays this year he is guaranteed 7.5 million dollars so why would he do anything to change that. The thing is the 7.5 million is only guaranteed if the Packers keep him. I could easily see them parting ways with him a year earlier if they don't have plans on keeping him around after this year. Let them cut his ass and see if he can get 7.5 million from someone else.

The thing is he may be worth the 7.5 million but if there is a chance that they can get him to reduce the cap hit you can be damned sure they will try. My suggestion would be to sign him to a three year extension/restructure. Pay him a million in salary this season and a roster bonus of .5 million at some point and convert the remaining 6 million into a SB (he gets a check for 6 million immediately and doesn't have to wait for game checks (that should be an incentive right there) the only thing would be if they can agree on an acceptable salary for the remaining 3 years keeping in mind he will have a cap hit of 1.5 million for each of the next three years from the signing bonus. By my calculation that would reduce his cap hit this year by 4 or 4.5 million. Easily enough to keep a couple of our lower tier guys if we want.

Message modified by user Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:11:01 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
Offline DakotaT  
#13 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:10:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: sschind Go to Quoted Post


The thing is he may be worth the 7.5 million but if there is a chance that they can get him to reduce the cap hit you can be damned sure they will try.



I just think you're playing with fire when you do shit like that. Why fuck with these guy's heads like that. The guy tackles like a woman, but he still covers pretty well and he came up big for us in the past. If we cut him, he won't be out of work very long. It really isn't about Tramon, it's about the faith we have in Hampton - and of course if we can resign Shields.
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Offline sschind  
#14 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:18:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I just think you're playing with fire when you do shit like that. Why fuck with these guy's heads like that. The guy tackles like a woman, but he still covers pretty well and he came up big for us in the past. If we cut him, he won't be out of work very long. It really isn't about Tramon, it's about the faith we have in Hampton - and of course if we can resign Shields.


now the fucking with a guys head thing is a legit argument but if he is getting all he has coming to him, in this case the 7.5 million in salary he is due (please check the very last part of my previous post, I made an edit while you were replying and I think you missed my suggestion for a possible deal) I don't see how it is bad for him. Obviously if he thinks he can cash in on a bigger deal after next year he may not want to go for it and see what comes from the FA market next year. Also your point about not wanting to keep him around after next year anyway is also valid and obviously if they are not interested him past this year my suggestion is moot. On the other hand, if it all comes together, like I said, I fail to see why you wouldn't give it a try.

I respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
Offline nerdmann  
#15 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:30:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: psico Go to Quoted Post
IF true (which I highly doubt), it is a fundamental shift in philosophy to what made the Packers superbowl champions. Personnell is the big question mark, along with scheme.


To me, health is a bigger factor than personnel, and even at this point, scheme.
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Offline nerdmann  
#16 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:32:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: sschind Go to Quoted Post
now the fucking with a guys head thing is a legit argument but if he is getting all he has coming to him, in this case the 7.5 million in salary he is due (please check the very last part of my previous post, I made an edit while you were replying and I think you missed my suggestion for a possible deal) I don't see how it is bad for him. Obviously if he thinks he can cash in on a bigger deal after next year he may not want to go for it and see what comes from the FA market next year. Also your point about not wanting to keep him around after next year anyway is also valid and obviously if they are not interested him past this year my suggestion is moot. On the other hand, if it all comes together, like I said, I fail to see why you wouldn't give it a try.



Pay your guys. If someday, a free agent did happen by, he'd look at how Ted treats his guys. Generally, Ted treats his guys well. Veterans get respect and his guys get paid, usually before the contracts are up.

Tramon had a bad nerve injury in his shoulder and he gutted it out, because we needed him. He's a little older now, but he's healthy too. He manned up this past year, imo. I don't mind paying him his contract, not only for his own sake, but for the message that it sends.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#17 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 10:46:41 PM(UTC)
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What I'm seeing here is a lot of the same short-sightedness and lack of imagination that causes some people to whine that we can't afford good players.

Tramon Williams has maybe 3-4 decent years left - decent, not great. A decent NFL Corner has value. Give him a $8 million bonus and a 4 year deal for $1, 2, 3, and 5 million each year - he probably would not see the 4th year, maybe not the 3rd if he deteriorates. Instead of $9.5 million, he counts $3 million against the cap. Could he do better elsewhere? I doubt it - certainly not for a championship caliber team.

That's the kind of thing I mean when I say creative capology ain't that difficult.

As for Matthews, he is a game changing talent. There is absolutely zero reason to expect recurrence of the hand injury (the hamstring worries me more). The deal as I recall it, is not that unfriendly to the cap. If we can get decent enough performance from the DE in front of him and/or the opposite OLB, so he can't be double teamed so much, he should be well worth what he is paid.

We should easily be able to keep Shields and anybody else worth keeping, re-sign Sitton, Lang, Nelson, and Cobb when the time comes, and still have plenty of ability to get at least a top flight Safety - Byrd or T.J. Ward - and maybe more.
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Offline play2win  
#18 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 6:32:09 AM(UTC)
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I'm wondering if Dom Capers didn't walk into Ted's office and demand some better talent? I mean, the guy has had fans calling for his head for years now, and he has had to try to run his D since 2011 with inferior talent at a number of key positions. We'll see just how much of a player we are in FA… I'm not going to hold my breath, but I would be very happy to see them land one or two top talents where we need them before the draft. A Safety and a LB, or a S and a DL. Something!

Add to that, the health of this team has been abysmal, like stink on shit. We have not been able to field a team of our best players because they are constantly in the training room or on the sidelines, inactive. Man, do I want to see this change as well!

Two very different aspects of our Packers folly for three years running, the personnel staff and the training staff, and I hope it stops with the crash of our 2013 season. Time to add top talent via Free Agency, and for God's sake, keep their players healthy.

As a fan, I've been so completely disappointed by these two major blunders (personnel & health). I feel we missed the boat on stacking SBs during these last 3 years mostly because we didn't add players at key positions of need. I also felt letting Cullen Jenkins walk after 2010 was a grave error. I knew it when all the offseason posturing was taking place, practically right after our SB win. As a GM, you can't let impact players like that walk to another team. Add to that, taking a hard stand against use of FA seems a bit pig headed, especially when your team has real needs on D while your O is poised for success. Hey, what happened to making a trade? I know that can be difficult with the cap, but certainly not impossible.

The major point is we were sitting right there, ready offensively to win another championship, but defensively we needed players who could step in immediately and contribute at an NFL level. We didn't have time to wait for youth to develop. Not when Collins went down. Not when Bishop went down. Not when Jenkins walked. All of that happened in 2011. Oddly enough, it is 2014 and we are still trying to find talent to fill those positions.

Add to that, the health of this team was an issue in 2010. What was done in these last 3 seasons to correct that? Nothing.

Message modified by user Friday, February 14, 2014 6:53:30 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline El3ment12  
#19 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 8:53:22 AM(UTC)
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Byrd is going to get a shit ton of money. There's so few elite safteys in this league.

I heard on NFL network that we might pick up a lot of guys to fit around Caper's scheme. Although Ted hasn't done a bad job at all in drafting. It seemed every other damn play another injury happened to our defense!
Offline sschind  
#20 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 3:13:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
What I'm seeing here is a lot of the same short-sightedness and lack of imagination that causes some people to whine that we can't afford good players.

Tramon Williams has maybe 3-4 decent years left - decent, not great. A decent NFL Corner has value. Give him a $8 million bonus and a 4 year deal for $1, 2, 3, and 5 million each year - he probably would not see the 4th year, maybe not the 3rd if he deteriorates. Instead of $9.5 million, he counts $3 million against the cap. Could he do better elsewhere? I doubt it - certainly not for a championship caliber team.

That's the kind of thing I mean when I say creative capology ain't that difficult.

As for Matthews, he is a game changing talent. There is absolutely zero reason to expect recurrence of the hand injury (the hamstring worries me more). The deal as I recall it, is not that unfriendly to the cap. If we can get decent enough performance from the DE in front of him and/or the opposite OLB, so he can't be double teamed so much, he should be well worth what he is paid.

We should easily be able to keep Shields and anybody else worth keeping, re-sign Sitton, Lang, Nelson, and Cobb when the time comes, and still have plenty of ability to get at least a top flight Safety - Byrd or T.J. Ward - and maybe more.


You have to remember that 2 million of Williams cap hit this year is from the signing bonus on his last contract. That has been paid and I don't know if it can be wiped off the books cap wise by including it in a new deal. I think that will count no matter what. You say an 8 million dollar bonus for 4 years. That is an additional 2 million per year hit. If you have to count his existing 2 million SB his cap hit would be 5 million not 3. Still a savings of 4.5 million. The point is and this is where you and I agree, there is a big chunk of money to be saved in the salary cap. The best thing is he will still get paid. He will get every single dime that was promised to him on his last contract and even more. Using TPBs numbers if you convert 7.5 million 2014 base salary to bonus and add .5 million plus give him an additional million in salary in 2014. that is an additional 1.5 million he makes. Plus he gets a check for quite a few million dollars right now and doesn't have to wait for it to be dished out as game checks. That's a lot of money to be able to invest immediately. Heck, with a sound investment it might net him an extra half a million.

Like I said before, the only way this doesn't work for Williams is if he thinks he can get his full 7.5 million this year and then sign a deal next year that gives him several more million dollars guaranteed. Lets use TPBs numbers of 1, 2 , 3, 5 million base and assume this would be OK with him. If he thinks he can get that and additional few million guaranteed he may very well pass on a restructure. I don't know what kind of contract a guy his age with his talent could expect to get after this season. He could expect next season.


As for your last paragraph I agree with that also. but the ability to do that hinges largely on what we look like under the 2015 cap and beyond as well.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#21 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2014 10:23:46 AM(UTC)
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I'm have the feeling that using FA this year was in the cards before we signed Rodgers and Matthews deals last year. Setting up the amount of space we have seems to be intentional.
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Offline play2win  
#22 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2014 2:04:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
I'm have the feeling that using FA this year was in the cards before we signed Rodgers and Matthews deals last year. Setting up the amount of space we have seems to be intentional.


Man, I hope you are right. Just because our needs are too great to be filled with one draft, and the hopes that players returning from injury will pick up where they left off (Hayward, Bulaga) and/or show real development (Perry, Worthy, Sherrod, Barrington).
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#23 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2014 2:33:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
I'm have the feeling that using FA this year was in the cards before we signed Rodgers and Matthews deals last year. Setting up the amount of space we have seems to be intentional.


Even though I've often been a detractor of TT, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he pre-planned things. Arguably, it would have been foolish to commit too much in free agency before having Rodgers and Matthews locked up. Now, however, the ability is clearly there. Hopefully he will pull the trigger - for a Safety anyway.

I also disagree that we are not in those dire straits at so many positions. Safety for sure, ILB almost as sure, OLB probably, but that's about it. The D-line is fine; The O-Line is what it is - giving what we have one more year to upgrade in house probably is best.
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Offline DakotaT  
#24 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2014 4:17:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Even though I've often been a detractor of TT, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he pre-planned things. .


For fuck sakes Texas, you want to see him have the same fate as I do the Wall Street boys. Don't start being a pussy. I'm so disappointed in you that I feel dirty and betrayed. Rolling On The Floor Laughing
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#25 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2014 5:46:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
For fuck sakes Texas, you want to see him have the same fate as I do the Wall Street boys. Don't start being a pussy. I'm so disappointed in you that I feel dirty and betrayed. Rolling On The Floor Laughing


I've never known you to be all that anti-TT.

I don't hate him so much as I'm conflicted about him. I always favored "draft and develop" over "go hog wild in free agency". However, he has kinda been a little bit too much of a good thing that way. And of course, we do have such a super winning record over his whole tenure. On the other hand, most of that is due to Aaron Rodgers, and things could be so much better if Thompson had done a better job.

He's a lot like George W. Bush - kept the country safe from terrorism after 9/11 and on top in the world, and everybody free and prosperous - on the other hand, there were (inexplicable) complaints that things should have been better. Hopefully, when Thompson's successor comes along, we won't find out how much worse it can be - same as after Bush. hahahahahahahaha I'm sure you agree with every word of that, Dakota.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
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