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User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#1 Posted : Saturday, March 8, 2014 6:13:18 PM(UTC)
What, no thread yet? WTG, Ted. This is indeed good news. 5 or 6 years would have maybe been better news - making the cap number even less, but as was said, there's plenty of money.

Don't go to sleep yet, Ted. You still have a lot to do before Tuesday afternoon - a couple more of our own, and maybe that Safety we need so badly.
Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Saturday, March 8, 2014 6:17:12 PM(UTC)
JSOnline said:
The Packers made CB Sam Shields a priority in free agency and they did not mess around, agreeing on a four-year deal with the veteran before he was able to sign with another team.

3/8/2014: Signed a four-year, $39 million contract. The deal included a $12.5 million signing bonus.


2014: $2.5 million,
2015: $3.1 million,
2016: $2.5 million,
2017: $3.1 million,
2018: Free Agent
DarkaneRules  
#3 Posted : Saturday, March 8, 2014 6:26:39 PM(UTC)
This makes sense. He's fast enough to run with this freaking beasts they got for WRs these days
dfosterf  
#4 Posted : Saturday, March 8, 2014 8:01:48 PM(UTC)
He had us over a barrel. We got butt-fucked on this deal. We will lose players because of it. I'm a Sam Shields fan, but this was very expensive.

steveishere  
#5 Posted : Saturday, March 8, 2014 8:53:36 PM(UTC)
dfosterf said: Go to Quoted Post
He had us over a barrel. We got butt-fucked on this deal. We will lose players because of it. I'm a Sam Shields fan, but this was very expensive.



It's not that bad with the way it's structured. He'll cost like 5m against the cap this year and 9 the next year. Years 3 and 4 it goes up to 12 but if he's not playing up to standards then he can be cut/restructured with minimal cap consequences.

Essentially it's an investment on him continuing to improve to become a top CB and if he doesn't we can just dump him after paying 12m over 2 years.
wpr  
#6 Posted : Saturday, March 8, 2014 8:55:15 PM(UTC)
glad the deal is done. Sure wish it was a little less expensive.
buckeyepackfan  
#7 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 12:03:46 AM(UTC)
4 yrs 39 mil 12.5mil signing bonus
12.5 / 4 = 3.125

15 mil after 2014

20 mil after 2015

2014 cap hit 5.625mil - base salary 2.5 mil (pro-rated bonus 3.125)

2015 cap hit 8.125mil - base salary 5mil (pro-rated bonus 3.125)

2016 cap hit 13.125mil - base salary 10 mil (pro rated bonus 3.125)

2017 cap hit 12.125mil - base salary 9mil(pro rated bonus 3.125)

This is a 2 year deal PERIOD.

2016 and 2017 is just agent "window dressing"





Laser Gunns  
#8 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 2:20:31 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
4 yrs 39 mil 12.5mil signing bonus
12.5 / 4 = 3.125

15 mil after 2014

20 mil after 2015

2014 cap hit 5.625mil - base salary 2.5 mil (pro-rated bonus 3.125)

2015 cap hit 8.125mil - base salary 5mil (pro-rated bonus 3.125)

2016 cap hit 13.125mil - base salary 10 mil (pro rated bonus 3.125)

2017 cap hit 12.125mil - base salary 9mil(pro rated bonus 3.125)

This is a 2 year deal PERIOD.

2016 and 2017 is just agent "window dressing"







better be because.. thats a lot o $$$ in our CBs
buckeyepackfan  
#9 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 3:40:58 AM(UTC)
Laser Gunns said: Go to Quoted Post
better be because.. thats a lot o $$$ in our CBs


Will be interesting when the final details come out just how the Packers pro-rate the 12.5 mil signing bonus.

I don't think there is anything that says they have to spread it out equally over the length of the contract.

With the cap space available this year The Packers could apply all of the bonus to the 1st 2 years.

The only thing that has been announced it that Sam will be paid 15mil this year, jumps to 20 mil through 2015 and 30 mil after 2016.

The contract could look something like this.

2014 cap hit 10.5 mil 2.5mil base salary(8mil pro rated bonus)
2015 cap hit 9.5 mil 5mil base salary(4.5mil pro rated bonus)
2016 cap hit 10mil base salary 10mil
2017 cap hit 9mil base salary 9mil

What that would do is eliminate any "dead money" the last 2 years of the contract enabling The Packers to either cut ties with Sam after the 1st 2 years or hopefully he continues to improve and earn his money and The Packers could easily extend him after 2015 converting his base salary into "bonus signing money" and then spreading that money out over 4 or 5 years.

Tricky business, can you imagine having to do this for 53 guys, while always looking 2 to 3 years in the future.

I still say that The Packers and Tramon Williams will announce some kind of extension lowering his 9.5mil cap hit this year and doing just what I described above.

Tramon expressed the need for veteran players at the end of the year, he is one guy who could really help out The Packers as an organization to free up more money to either bring back their own vet FA's or sign a couple UFA's who hit the market Tuesday.
sschind  
#10 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 8:11:14 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Will be interesting when the final details come out just how the Packers pro-rate the 12.5 mil signing bonus.

I don't think there is anything that says they have to spread it out equally over the length of the contract.

With the cap space available this year The Packers could apply all of the bonus to the 1st 2 years.

The only thing that has been announced it that Sam will be paid 15mil this year, jumps to 20 mil through 2015 and 30 mil after 2016.

The contract could look something like this.

2014 cap hit 10.5 mil 2.5mil base salary(8mil pro rated bonus)
2015 cap hit 9.5 mil 5mil base salary(4.5mil pro rated bonus)
2016 cap hit 10mil base salary 10mil
2017 cap hit 9mil base salary 9mil

What that would do is eliminate any "dead money" the last 2 years of the contract enabling The Packers to either cut ties with Sam after the 1st 2 years or hopefully he continues to improve and earn his money and The Packers could easily extend him after 2015 converting his base salary into "bonus signing money" and then spreading that money out over 4 or 5 years.

Tricky business, can you imagine having to do this for 53 guys, while always looking 2 to 3 years in the future.

I still say that The Packers and Tramon Williams will announce some kind of extension lowering his 9.5mil cap hit this year and doing just what I described above.

Tramon expressed the need for veteran players at the end of the year, he is one guy who could really help out The Packers as an organization to free up more money to either bring back their own vet FA's or sign a couple UFA's who hit the market Tuesday.


I am not sure but I don't think a signing bonus can be pro rated any other way than equally over the length of the deal (or 5 year.) They could have made part of it a guaranteed roster bonus for this season or something like that to take some of the dead money out but it was listed as a SB so I think it has to be spread out equally.

I agree with you Williams. I think he restructures to lessen his cap impact.

I also agree with your earlier post about this being essentially a 2 year deal. We will be looking to restructure then just like we will with Williams this year. Convert some or all of the salary the SB and spread it out. I'm guessing the 2017 salary will become totally irrelevant.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#11 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 8:13:35 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
4 yrs 39 mil 12.5mil signing bonus
12.5 / 4 = 3.125

15 mil after 2014

20 mil after 2015

2014 cap hit 5.625mil - base salary 2.5 mil (pro-rated bonus 3.125)

2015 cap hit 8.125mil - base salary 5mil (pro-rated bonus 3.125)

2016 cap hit 13.125mil - base salary 10 mil (pro rated bonus 3.125)

2017 cap hit 12.125mil - base salary 9mil(pro rated bonus 3.125)

This is a 2 year deal PERIOD.

2016 and 2017 is just agent "window dressing"



That's probably true, but Ted shoulda made it longer term. Shields almost certainly is still gonna be good that 3rd and 4th year, and even into a 5th and 6th. Now, they will be faced with the same situation - re-sign him or let him go while he is still at or near the top of his game. And of course, stretching it out another year or two would have lessened the cap hit in the short term.

As for the too much money thing, no, it isn't - not in the context of the current market with the increased cap limit and all.
Zero2Cool  
#12 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 8:35:35 AM(UTC)
From what I read about this contract on rotoworld, it is cap friendly and if Sam Shields tanks it as we've some some folks do who get a huge pay day, it won't murder the Packers salary cap. Also, the cap in 2015/2016 is expected to hit around $160 million.

This being a four deal is perfect. It's not too long as to hinder the Packers in the future and it's not too short that Shields could have a better year and hit up a larger contract.


Sam Shields was an undrafted free agent. I do not believe he ever has had "money" before. I'm hoping it doesn't change him. Granted he did earn $2.02 million for 2013.


I'm just glad I don't have to create a new signature graphic.

steveishere  
#13 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 11:29:45 AM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
That's probably true, but Ted shoulda made it longer term. Shields almost certainly is still gonna be good that 3rd and 4th year, and even into a 5th and 6th. Now, they will be faced with the same situation - re-sign him or let him go while he is still at or near the top of his game. And of course, stretching it out another year or two would have lessened the cap hit in the short term.

As for the too much money thing, no, it isn't - not in the context of the current market with the increased cap limit and all.


The shorter deal is how they got away with giving him so little guaranteed. More years would mean more guaranteed money and would make it more dangerous of a contract. As it stands right now it's a pretty low risk deal because if he's playing up to standard you can keep him and if he's not you can get rid of him. It's a rare deal that seems to work out pretty great for both sides. I don't see why Shields would want to "stretch it out another year or two" without any extra considerations. It doesn't really work like that.
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#14 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 11:58:40 AM(UTC)
I'm very happy about this one. It may seem like we're overpaying, but I look it as paying him for his past play as well. Sam just has some things you can't coach. He has exceptional recovery/closing speed and he has very long arms and can catch very well. When he gets the mental part of the game down better, he is going to be very good.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#15 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 7:31:40 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
The shorter deal is how they got away with giving him so little guaranteed. More years would mean more guaranteed money and would make it more dangerous of a contract. As it stands right now it's a pretty low risk deal because if he's playing up to standard you can keep him and if he's not you can get rid of him. It's a rare deal that seems to work out pretty great for both sides. I don't see why Shields would want to "stretch it out another year or two" without any extra considerations. It doesn't really work like that.


I'm very happy about it too - but I'd be happier with more years. Z2C, I hope you dig this thread up in 4 years when Shields is still really good, and we have to go through this again - deciding then whether to pay him into his declining years or let him go. a 6 or 5 year contract would have prevented that and at the same time, made the cap hit even less in the short term.

Steve, how do you figure we would have needed to guarantee more money in a longer term deal? A 12.5 million bonus is already pretty hefty, and nothing beyond that and the first year salary is guaranteed.

sschind  
#16 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 8:09:07 PM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm very happy about it too - but I'd be happier with more years. Z2C, I hope you dig this thread up in 4 years when Shields is still really good, and we have to go through this again - deciding then whether to pay him into his declining years or let him go. a 6 or 5 year contract would have prevented that and at the same time, made the cap hit even less in the short term.

Steve, how do you figure we would have needed to guarantee more money in a longer term deal? A 12.5 million bonus is already pretty hefty, and nothing beyond that and the first year salary is guaranteed.




First thing, the SB can not be pro rated longer than 5 years so even with the same 12.5 million and a 6 year deal the SB part of the cap hit could have only been lowered to 2.5 million for 5 years. The sixth year would be SB free for cap purposes. Its not a big deal I just didn't want you thinking the SB cap hit could have been lowered to 2.1 million per year over 6 years.

I also agree with steve that a six year deal would have taken more money (Obviously) and probably more bonus. As it stands I think Sam will be 30 when his current deal expires (likely even younger because I don't see the last 2 years going through as they stand) and he may get another somewhat decent deal. If he was going to lock himself up for 6 years I think he would have wanted more bonus as compensation for a likely reduced rate at 32. Assuming they could live the 3.125 million cap hit per year they could have offered a 15.5 SB over 5 or 6 years and been in the same boat they are now cap wise.

The only benefit, and it is a big one, to doing the longer term deal is like you said it takes away the need to go though all this again in 4 years. It would have been nice if they could have stretched it out to a 6 year deal that is really a 4 year deal rather than a 4 year deal that is really a 2 year deal. Of course if the cap goes up to 160 million by year 3 and 4 it is entirely possible the Packers honor the deal if Sam is still playing at a high level.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#17 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 8:34:24 PM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
First thing, the SB can not be pro rated longer than 5 years so even with the same 12.5 million and a 6 year deal the SB part of the cap hit could have only been lowered to 2.5 million for 5 years. The sixth year would be SB free for cap purposes. Its not a big deal I just didn't want you thinking the SB cap hit could have been lowered to 2.1 million per year over 6 years.

I also agree with steve that a six year deal would have taken more money (Obviously) and probably more bonus. As it stands I think Sam will be 30 when his current deal expires (likely even younger because I don't see the last 2 years going through as they stand) and he may get another somewhat decent deal. If he was going to lock himself up for 6 years I think he would have wanted more bonus as compensation for a likely reduced rate at 32. Assuming they could live the 3.125 million cap hit per year they could have offered a 15.5 SB over 5 or 6 years and been in the same boat they are now cap wise.

The only benefit, and it is a big one, to doing the longer term deal is like you said it takes away the need to go though all this again in 4 years. It would have been nice if they could have stretched it out to a 6 year deal that is really a 4 year deal rather than a 4 year deal that is really a 2 year deal. Of course if the cap goes up to 160 million by year 3 and 4 it is entirely possible the Packers honor the deal if Sam is still playing at a high level.


Good thoughtful reply. I didn't know that about not prorating a bonus beyond five years. I'll take your word for it.

I still think, as good as the news of signing him is, we will regret in four years that the deal wasn't for longer. I really don't see Shields declining in four years or less.

Zero2Cool  
#18 Posted : Monday, March 10, 2014 5:04:43 AM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm very happy about it too - but I'd be happier with more years. Z2C, I hope you dig this thread up in 4 years when Shields is still really good, and we have to go through this again - deciding then whether to pay him into his declining years or let him go. a 6 or 5 year contract would have prevented that and at the same time, made the cap hit even less in the short term.

Steve, how do you figure we would have needed to guarantee more money in a longer term deal? A 12.5 million bonus is already pretty hefty, and nothing beyond that and the first year salary is guaranteed.


You do realize that if he signed for longer and feels he out performed his contract that he'd probably hold out again like he attempted the year prior? Especially if the projected salary cap increases are even remotely accurate.



User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#19 Posted : Monday, March 10, 2014 5:31:08 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
You do realize that if he signed for longer and feels he out performed his contract that he'd probably hold out again like he attempted the year prior? Especially if the projected salary cap increases are even remotely accurate.



Texas is a "wish he could have been" a capitalist. He does not believe the Packers should have to pay or overpay for their players. We are just suppose to get everybody on the cheap. When I saw what Brent Grimes got, I knew Shields would be getting what the Packers paid for him. I just never thought it would be the Packers paying him that. I'm pretty thrown back by this signing, and happy about it.

Now if we could land a DLineman, and upgrade to Jones at inside linebacker, and some kind of second tier veteran safety to help teach Micah Hyde to play the position.
play2win  
#20 Posted : Monday, March 10, 2014 5:35:49 AM(UTC)
This was one necessary signing IMO. Shields has been really good for us, and I believe he will only get better. Glad to see this done, even at that high a price.
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