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wpr  
#1 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 7:21:12 AM(UTC)
Rob Demovsky said:
GREEN BAY, Wis. -- With the bulk of the free-agent work done, it's a good time to recheck the Green Bay Packers' depth chart leading up to the May 8-10 NFL draft.

On Thursday, we broke down the way things look on offense.

Next up is the defense:

Defensive end: Datone Jones, Josh Boyd, Jerel Worthy.

Analysis: The Packers have high hopes for Jones despite a disappointing rookie season in which the former first-round pick was slowed by an ankle injury and recorded just 3.


The depth will look a lot better after the draft.
Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 7:28:30 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
The depth will look a lot better after the draft.


and then worse after pre-season
wpr  
#3 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 7:35:11 AM(UTC)
Get a safety first. ILB second and someone who can line up at NT and put some real pressure on the offense be it a running play or a passing play.
play2win  
#4 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 7:53:01 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
Get a safety first. ILB second and someone who can line up at NT and put some real pressure on the offense be it a running play or a passing play.


We need all of those players, and a stud WR. I don't much care in which order, as long as they get really good players added at all of those 4 positions. Add a C, and I think we might be set. At least, improved if they all turn out to be solid players... [laughing] That is a tall order, to add that many starters in one draft, and that is precisely what we need.

Starting S
Starting ILB
Starting calibre NT to platoon with Raji
Starting calibre WR for adequate depth/insurance
Starting calibre C for adequate depth/insurance

TE would be a welcome addition as well. I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt to add 2 Safeties, just to better our chances of getting the upgrade we really need.
buckeyepackfan  
#5 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 10:54:06 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
We need all of those players, and a stud WR. I don't much care in which order, as long as they get really good players added at all of those 4 positions. Add a C, and I think we might be set. At least, improved if they all turn out to be solid players... [laughing] That is a tall order, to add that many starters in one draft, and that is precisely what we need.

Starting S
Starting ILB
Starting calibre NT to platoon with Raji
Starting calibre WR for adequate depth/insurance
Starting calibre C for adequate depth/insurance

TE would be a welcome addition as well. I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt to add 2 Safeties, just to better our chances of getting the upgrade we really need.


I can see now why you are mostly disappointed and seem to be in a bad mood.

It's unrealistic what you are asking for in one draft.

A team(especially one drafting at #21) gets ONE full time starter out of the draft and they are happy.

They get TWO and they are absolutely ecstatic!!!

When healthy, I'm sure, Mike and Co. are really hoping that NO rookie can crack the starting lineup.

Despite what you think, there is plenty of experienced talent on the team.

Why so many of you are so upset about last year is beyond me.

IMHO last year really showed how much depth there is in Green Bay, and if you check out the games The Packers lost,(the close ones) they had a chance to win, I will bet you find it was a rookie mistake here or a rookie mistake there that ultimately cost the team the win.

Ted will probably draft 7-11 players,(let's say 9), bring in any number of UDFA's let's say another 10.

Of those 19 players, 10 will probably make the final 53 and another 3 or 4 will go to the practice squad.

If 6 of the 10 rookies who make the team are starters, then it is real easy to predict another 8-7-1 year or worse.








mi_keys  
#6 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 10:54:51 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
We need all of those players, and a stud WR. I don't much care in which order, as long as they get really good players added at all of those 4 positions. Add a C, and I think we might be set. At least, improved if they all turn out to be solid players... [laughing] That is a tall order, to add that many starters in one draft, and that is precisely what we need.

Starting S
Starting ILB
Starting calibre NT to platoon with Raji
Starting calibre WR for adequate depth/insurance
Starting calibre C for adequate depth/insurance

TE would be a welcome addition as well. I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt to add 2 Safeties, just to better our chances of getting the upgrade we really need.


I generally agree with the above, but I'd like to state that we don't need to fill every single hole to contend for a Super Bowl (and maybe that's not what you were saying, it just sounded that way). Every team has holes, some more so than others, but no team is stacked across the board. I think if we hit on Safety, Nose Tackle and one of the other three we'll be in pretty good shape. We have a couple potential areas where we could grow internally as well.

I'd like to see two safeties in the draft as well. I think from two rookies (maybe including a Clinton Dix or Pryor), Morgan Burnett maybe returning to form, Sean Richardson, Chris Banjo and Micah Hyde, we should hopefully be able to find two competent safeties.

An athletic playmaker like a CJ Mosley would be a huge plus to go alongside AJ Hawk. If we improve and get elite play elsewhere though (namely upfront), I think we could cover up inside linebacker with what we have. It wouldn't be ideal but if the pieces fall such that we can improve the other pieces enough we can probably squeeze enough out of any of Jones, Lattimore or Barrington and still be successful.

We definitely need another Nose Tackle. Thankfully, it looks like there are a few that could be had at various stages of the draft. But I really want to start dominating up front.

On that note, I'd like to see another pass rusher as well. I think we're in good shape for this year with the cast that we have, but I want to see someone come in and start learning to take over in a couple years when Peppers is gone. I still have high hopes for Perry and I'm glad Neal was brought back for something reasonable, but I'm a firm believer that you need a deep rotation of pass rushers.

Finally, as you said we need depth at WR, TE and C. I'd like us to sign Owen Daniels if someone doesn't fall in the draft.
Zero2Cool  
#7 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 10:57:58 AM(UTC)
mi_keys said: Go to Quoted Post
Finally, as you said we need depth at WR, TE and C. I'd like us to sign Owen Daniels if someone doesn't fall in the draft.


Owen Daniels agrees to deal with Baltimore Ravens
mi_keys  
#8 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 11:02:09 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Owen Daniels agrees to deal with Baltimore Ravens


Damn, looks like that happened in the last 24 hours. Missed that. Well there goes that idea, lol.
wpr  
#9 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 11:08:47 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
We need all of those players, and a stud WR. I don't much care in which order, as long as they get really good players added at all of those 4 positions. Add a C, and I think we might be set. At least, improved if they all turn out to be solid players... [laughing] That is a tall order, to add that many starters in one draft, and that is precisely what we need.

Starting S
Starting ILB
Starting calibre NT to platoon with Raji
Starting calibre WR for adequate depth/insurance
Starting calibre C for adequate depth/insurance

TE would be a welcome addition as well. I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt to add 2 Safeties, just to better our chances of getting the upgrade we really need.


yeah I put the WR on the offensive thread. I assume they need a C too. Just don't know what they have in JC so I decided to leave that position off the wish list for the moment.
play2win  
#10 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 12:53:52 PM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
I can see now why you are mostly disappointed and seem to be in a bad mood.

It's unrealistic what you are asking for in one draft.

A team(especially one drafting at #21) gets ONE full time starter out of the draft and they are happy.

They get TWO and they are absolutely ecstatic!!!

When healthy, I'm sure, Mike and Co. are really hoping that NO rookie can crack the starting lineup.

Despite what you think, there is plenty of experienced talent on the team.

Why so many of you are so upset about last year is beyond me.

IMHO last year really showed how much depth there is in Green Bay, and if you check out the games The Packers lost,(the close ones) they had a chance to win, I will bet you find it was a rookie mistake here or a rookie mistake there that ultimately cost the team the win.

Ted will probably draft 7-11 players,(let's say 9), bring in any number of UDFA's let's say another 10.

Of those 19 players, 10 will probably make the final 53 and another 3 or 4 will go to the practice squad.

If 6 of the 10 rookies who make the team are starters, then it is real easy to predict another 8-7-1 year or worse.










Actually, I do know quite well how hard it is to come away with quality starters in a single draft. That is exactly why I have been pining for years here for Thompson to employ a more balanced overall personnel procurement approach, using BOTH the draft and FA.

Did I not say it was a tall order to add that many starters in a single draft? WTF?

As a fan, was I upset about last year? Yes, but I've been upset about our last 3 years. Many of the same issues that Mike McCarthy promised at the end of each season to address reared its ugly head, again, and again, and again. Add to that, we've been deficient in real talent at S and ILB for 3 years, not to mention pass rush opposite Matthews, and Ted Thompson has not gotten the job done at these positions... as much as I like and respect him.

We left a lot on the table in 2011, 2012 and 2013. Time to clean up.

This isn't all flowers because it is a new season. Real issues need to be addressed and put to rest, namely position upgrades and team health. I guess I take a more realistic approach, and we clearly have no one at FS, no one at ILB next to Hawk, Hawk himself isn't getting any younger, and we are now quite thin on the O side at C, TE and WR. So, adding starters at at least 2 positions, S and ILB, is not out of the question if Ted does a good job drafting this year. Just what I said.
buckeyepackfan  
#11 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 7:33:55 PM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Actually, I do know quite well how hard it is to come away with quality starters in a single draft. That is exactly why I have been pining for years here for Thompson to employ a more balanced overall personnel procurement approach, using BOTH the draft and FA.

Did I not say it was a tall order to add that many starters in a single draft? WTF?

As a fan, was I upset about last year? Yes, but I've been upset about our last 3 years. Many of the same issues that Mike McCarthy promised at the end of each season to address reared its ugly head, again, and again, and again. Add to that, we've been deficient in real talent at S and ILB for 3 years, not to mention pass rush opposite Matthews, and Ted Thompson has not gotten the job done at these positions... as much as I like and respect him.

We left a lot on the table in 2011, 2012 and 2013. Time to clean up.

This isn't all flowers because it is a new season. Real issues need to be addressed and put to rest, namely position upgrades and team health. I guess I take a more realistic approach, and we clearly have no one at FS, no one at ILB next to Hawk, Hawk himself isn't getting any younger, and we are now quite thin on the O side at C, TE and WR. So, adding starters at at least 2 positions, S and ILB, is not out of the question if Ted does a good job drafting this year. Just what I said.


You keep dreaming, and Ted will keep doing his due dilligence in keeping the Packers a viable threat every year.

Mark this thread if you want.

The Packers will make a deeper run in the playoff in 2014, IF NO ROOKIE HAS TO START.

Thankfully Ted and mike don't give up on players as fast as some on this forum, if that was the tuth, The packers would be fielding a team made up of mostly rookies and 2nd year guys , and that is a recipe for disaster!!!
sschind  
#12 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 9:41:51 PM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
You keep dreaming, and Ted will keep doing his due dilligence in keeping the Packers a viable threat every year.

Mark this thread if you want.

The Packers will make a deeper run in the playoff in 2014, IF NO ROOKIE HAS TO START.

Thankfully Ted and mike don't give up on players as fast as some on this forum, if that was the tuth, The packers would be fielding a team made up of mostly rookies and 2nd year guys , and that is a recipe for disaster!!!


I agree with you on everything except the no rookies starting thing. If we get Pryor or Dix at 21 I'm betting they will be the starter. I also think someone like Mosely could easily be one of the starters. If we take TE like Amaro he could start as well but anything in later rounds, Yeah, chances are they will not be starters unless its a Lacy type thing or an injury like Daktari. Getting 5 starting caliber players in their first year out of 1 draft is beyond lucky. Getting 5 starters may be possible but not necessarily 5 that are starting caliber. There is a difference.
luigis  
#13 Posted : Friday, April 4, 2014 10:36:28 PM(UTC)
Sitting in my couch I can't stop thinking we need to draft a safety, then a safety then another safety, then a safety and in the last rounds 3 or 4 extra safeties.

In today's NFL the safety position is critical, a good pair there make the whole defense be better, they make the DL look better, they give more time to all the defense in general and they stop the big plays that make defenses look horrible.

I'm almost convinced Burnett is good as a backup. So I think we need not one but two safeties, a whole new pair in the backfield to make the defense really work.

I think it's easier for a good safety to make LBs good than for good LBs to make the safeties look fine.
wpr  
#14 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2014 6:05:02 AM(UTC)
luigis said: Go to Quoted Post
Sitting in my couch I can't stop thinking we need to draft a safety, then a safety then another safety, then a safety and in the last rounds 3 or 4 extra safeties.

In today's NFL the safety position is critical, a good pair there make the whole defense be better, they make the DL look better, they give more time to all the defense in general and they stop the big plays that make defenses look horrible.

I'm almost convinced Burnett is good as a backup. So I think we need not one but two safeties, a whole new pair in the backfield to make the defense really work.

I think it's easier for a good safety to make LBs good than for good LBs to make the safeties look fine.


if only there were that many safeties that were good enough to be drafted that many times.
steveishere  
#15 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2014 6:51:27 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
if only there were that many safeties that were good enough to be drafted that many times.


Better to pass up other good players and have 10 shitty safeties than to have 3 shitty safeties I guess.
mi_keys  
#16 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:37:10 AM(UTC)
luigis said: Go to Quoted Post
Sitting in my couch I can't stop thinking we need to draft a safety, then a safety then another safety, then a safety and in the last rounds 3 or 4 extra safeties.

In today's NFL the safety position is critical, a good pair there make the whole defense be better, they make the DL look better, they give more time to all the defense in general and they stop the big plays that make defenses look horrible.

I'm almost convinced Burnett is good as a backup. So I think we need not one but two safeties, a whole new pair in the backfield to make the defense really work.

I think it's easier for a good safety to make LBs good than for good LBs to make the safeties look fine.


I don't buy it.

I'm of the mindset that losing Nick Collins may have cost us another title. I think he was that good. But given the choice between an elite safety and elite pass rusher, I'll take the pass rusher every time.

We're in a day and age where defensive backs aren't allowed to defend receivers down field. And we are in a time where safety really isn't that deep of a position across the league, potentially because of the rule changes.

Defense is won up front. You need to win the line of scrimmage, however that is done. You need hit the running back at the line of scrimmage or in the backfield. And you need to get to the quarterback and disrupt the offensive rhythm.
play2win  
#17 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:42:34 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
You keep dreaming, and Ted will keep doing his due dilligence in keeping the Packers a viable threat every year.

Mark this thread if you want.

The Packers will make a deeper run in the playoff in 2014, IF NO ROOKIE HAS TO START.

Thankfully Ted and mike don't give up on players as fast as some on this forum, if that was the tuth, The packers would be fielding a team made up of mostly rookies and 2nd year guys , and that is a recipe for disaster!!!


Just like last season when we started Bakhtiari and Lacy... super glad they didn't do that! It would have spelled "disaster!"

What planet are you living on? We've been fielding rosters loaded with rookies and 2nd year players, many of whom have started for us over the past 4 seasons. One of the youngest, if not the youngest teams in the NFL over that span.
play2win  
#18 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:52:59 AM(UTC)
mi_keys said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't buy it.

I'm of the mindset that losing Nick Collins may have cost us another title. I think he was that good. But given the choice between an elite safety and elite pass rusher, I'll take the pass rusher every time.

We're in a day and age where defensive backs aren't allowed to defend receivers down field. And we are in a time where safety really isn't that deep of a position across the league, potentially because of the rule changes.

Defense is won up front. You need to win the line of scrimmage, however that is done. You need hit the running back at the line of scrimmage or in the backfield. And you need to get to the quarterback and disrupt the offensive rhythm.


I don't know mi_keys... We win championships with top talents at S. LeRoy and Eugene. Nick and Morgan. Most champions have top talents playing the S positions. I tend to disagree on the one or the other. We actually need both. Top pass rushers and top Safeties. I think Burnett will be a better player if he were moved back to FS, with a top talent from this draft at SS.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#19 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2014 9:08:39 AM(UTC)
mi_keys said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't buy it.

I'm of the mindset that losing Nick Collins may have cost us another title. I think he was that good. But given the choice between an elite safety and elite pass rusher, I'll take the pass rusher every time.

We're in a day and age where defensive backs aren't allowed to defend receivers down field. And we are in a time where safety really isn't that deep of a position across the league, potentially because of the rule changes.

Defense is won up front. You need to win the line of scrimmage, however that is done. You need hit the running back at the line of scrimmage or in the backfield. And you need to get to the quarterback and disrupt the offensive rhythm.


Why don't you buy it? The point is not whether or not a great pass rusher is more valuable than a great Safety. The point is what we have or don't have now.

With Matthews and now Peppers, and still a decent chance Perry develops; With Daniels getting more playing time and Datone progressing, we are very well stocked for pass rushers.

We have a huge need for Safetys - I'd like to see two drafted among the 1st, 2nd, and 2 3rd round picks.

Regarding the "importance" thing, look at it like this: the great pass rusher sacks the QB on first and second down; Then on about 3rd and 26 (make that 4th and 26 just for history sake), the inadequate Safety messes up and gives up a big play - TD or at least keeping the drive alive. Which is more important, the pass rusher or the last line of defense?

luigis  
#20 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2014 9:37:06 AM(UTC)
mi_keys said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't buy it.

I'm of the mindset that losing Nick Collins may have cost us another title. I think he was that good. But given the choice between an elite safety and elite pass rusher, I'll take the pass rusher every time.

We're in a day and age where defensive backs aren't allowed to defend receivers down field. And we are in a time where safety really isn't that deep of a position across the league, potentially because of the rule changes.

Defense is won up front. You need to win the line of scrimmage, however that is done. You need hit the running back at the line of scrimmage or in the backfield. And you need to get to the quarterback and disrupt the offensive rhythm.


A pass rusher can't give up a TD, or a hail-mary pass or blow the coverage for a 50 yard pass. If the secondary is very good the rushers have more time to get to the QB because nobody is open.

On the other hand if you have an excellent rusher but bad secondary they can't just double-block your elite rusher and just wait until somebody is open to fling a big pass. Hey that's exaclty what they have been doing to us with CMIII.

Take the best two safeties in the NFL in your opinion and imagine them in our backfield, now let me know if we need a pass rusher, then imagine we have CMIII and Julius Peppers and let me know if you are fine with Burnett and the Doc in the backfield.

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