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Offline IronMan  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:04:38 AM(UTC)
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Near the end of the 3rd quarter, we had the ball on the Colts 14 yard line, and on 3rd and 10, McCarthy decided to run it. Why? Does he not trust Aaron to throw it in that situation? Play calls like this are starting to add up.

I know we won. Thats not the point. I just think we have a better chance of getting the first down in that situation if we pass it.
Offline tromadz  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:19:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Near the end of the 3rd quarter, we had the ball on the Colts 14 yard line, and on 3rd and 10, McCarthy decided to run it. Why? Does he not trust Aaron to throw it in that situation? Play calls like this are starting to add up.

I know we won. Thats not the point. I just think we have a better chance of getting the first down in that situation if we pass it.


Easy, to catch em off guard. Like you said, 3rd and 10 run? You obviously didnt expect it.

Did it work? I honestly dont remember but I assume it didn't. They don't always. I think like 99% of Rodgers TDs are on third downs, so I highly doubt its a trust issue.

McCarthy is likely to win the coach of the week this week so...yeah. Had he got a first down, would this thread exist?
Offline IronMan  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:26:56 AM(UTC)
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Well we got 3 yards so no it didn't work.

Look, I'm not complaining. McCarthy is a good coach, I just think that was a bad call. If it were 3rd and goal on the 14, and he ran the ball, would you still defend him? I mean, that would definitely catch the defense by surprise. But we would likely not get the first down either.

Whether or not the defense is expecting it, getting 10 yards on the ground doesn't happen very often. Pass is the better option there. I could understand if we were backed up in our own territory, and we run on 3rd and long to get some field position, but we were on their 14, and we run on 3rd and 10. Strange.
Offline IronMan  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:38:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


McCarthy is likely to win the coach of the week this week

And he deserves it.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Had he got a first down, would this thread exist?

Yes. It would have still been a strange decision.
Offline Greg C.  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:24:38 AM(UTC)
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Yeah, that was a real head-scratcher, more than any other call this year. I wonder if McCarthy was asked about it afterwards, because I'd like to hear his explanation.
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Offline IronMan  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:39:46 AM(UTC)
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A fan asked him about this play on the Mike McCarthy show Monday. With a smile on his face, he said. "I thought we would get the first down." (followed by crowd laughter)

He then said, (I'm paraphrasing) "It was a safe call. I felt we had a good match up in that situation." He also said there was a run/pass option on that play.

Hopefully later this week they will have the video up, so we can see his whole response.
Offline tromadz  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:52:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
If it were 3rd and goal on the 14, and he ran the ball, would you still defend him?


Yeah. Packer coaches and whatnot always get the benefit of the doubt from me, cuz they're the pro's.

As far as the theoretical 3rd and goal from the 14 draw. Would I defend it? Depends on the SITUATION. What's the score? How much time is left?

If it's 3rd and goal from the 14, and we're up 10 with 1:32 left in the game. Yeah, draw city!

Situations.

I trust our coaches, despite some of the so-called head scratchers.

This reminds me of people complaining about why throw short of the first down marker on 3rd down, forgetting this team is awesome at yards after the catch.

Trust the coaches.
Offline IronMan  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:55:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Trust the coaches.

I do. That doesn't mean they are always right.
Offline tromadz  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 9:02:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Trust the coaches.

I do. That doesn't mean they are always right.


Nobody is always right, but he made the playcall for a reason.

There's tons of plays where I'm like "WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT!! RAHJH!" then I calm down and understand there's a method to the madness.

I honestly don't see the point in second guessing the playcalls, mostly because I think it would drive you batty! Like on draft day when we get nobodies and people are all 'rabble rabble rabble!'

But whatev. You disliked the call. It happens. I dislike every punt play because Frost is trash.
Offline bozz_2006  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 9:29:38 AM(UTC)
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trying to catch them off guard. weird call, yeah. it was supposed to be a weird call.
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Offline original_tjb  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 9:54:58 AM(UTC)
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He has a history of outsmarting himself with weird calls, especially near the goal line. His first year it was bad, but he is getting fewer weird calls last year or so.

I would prefer the Packers to call their best play even if the opposing team knows it is coming, like when Sherman called the U71 formation, Ahman Green running behind Tauscher and Kevin Barry. Unfortunately, the Packers OL is not up to that level yet, different running scheme etc. Hopefully soon they will be at the point where McCarthy does not have to outsmart himself, just crush the opposing D.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I know we won. Thats not the point. I just think we have a better chance of getting the first down in that situation if we pass it.
#1 Fan of Edgar Bennett, greatest of all known Packers in the observable universe.
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Offline IronMan  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:08:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


I would prefer the Packers to call their best play even if the opposing team knows it is coming,

MY POINT EXACTLY. THANK YOU!!!!
Offline stevegb  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:11:09 AM(UTC)
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Remember Indy is the worst ranked rush d, take that into account and their not expecting it then its not so strange.
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Online wpr  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:16:29 AM(UTC)
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Trom said it. It is all about situations.
If GB was down by 21 they would have needed to go for the TD. Since they were up by 10 there is no need to push it. You saw what Rouse did in a similar situation. TN was at the 11. It was 2nd down. They were trailing and it was late in the 4th Qtr. He ran it back. Better to be up by 10 or 13 than only 3. TN had to go for it and got burnt. GB didn't have to.
Keep in mind if they were out at the 35-50 GB may well have passed the ball. Once you get down inside the 15 it is really hard to pass the ball for more than 5 yards as there just isn't very much room and the defense knows that. It is a lot harder to get 10 yards from the 15 that from the 40.
I do not remember if he was forced out of bounds. If not, the run would have kept the clock running. By the time you get into that point of the game and you have the lead and the ball you want to keep the clock going as much as possible.
One final thing. By running the ball it is now on game film. GB's upcoming opponents have to consider that the run is possible as they prepare for GB. It may not be very probable but they can not say that GB will pass 100% of the time. There was little risk by running and had a lot of benefits.
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Offline IronMan  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:21:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


I would prefer the Packers to call their best play even if the opposing team knows it is coming,

MY POINT EXACTLY. THANK YOU!!!!
Offline gakko  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:27:38 AM(UTC)
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I think it was a good call. It was not good because of what happened on that specific play but McCarthy tried to catch them off guard. If you pass on every 3rd and long you become very predictable as an offense, much like Mike Sherman's offense. You have got to try these things every now and then to mix up your playcalling and quite often when you run on 3rd and long you get good chunks of yardage, obviously that was not the case on this play. I would have prefered a draw play from the shotgun though.
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Offline IronMan  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:37:26 AM(UTC)
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Come on Zombieslayer, back me up here!
Online wpr  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:14:30 AM(UTC)
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IM, I understand where you are coming from. No need to defend yourself. I am not saying that you are wrong for wanting to see them make a real effort to get the 1st down.
I am saying that I understand why they didn't.
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Offline obi1  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:37:11 AM(UTC)
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Iron Man,

I think your point is well taken. Howeer, i agree with the call. Colts I think would have done the same thing if they had been in the lead as well.

As the clock ticks off, there is more pressure put on the opposing team and thus they become mistake prone and throw INTs that put the game away... Sound familiar?

At the same time, at that juncture in the game, I wonder what McCarthy would have done had they ended up with 4th and 1 and not a 4th and long.
Now that would have been really interesting...
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Offline tromadz  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:46:12 AM(UTC)
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McCarthy has huge balls when he sees it's 4th and 1. And with Ryan Grant no less!
Offline MassPackersFan  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:07:20 PM(UTC)
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If you watch enough football you see a draw called on 3rd and long all the time in the NFL. There are a lot of reasons. The defense will be looking pass, linebackers will be pass blitzing or dropping back into coverage, so you could catch them off guard for a 10+ yard gain, especially up the middle if you try to clear it out with your routes. You have a short field and not much space to work with vs. their pass defense, as well, and they are a defense that usually thrives off of turnover, so the chances of something bad happening are higher. The main reason though, is risk vs. benefit in that situation, up by 10 in the 2nd half. If there is absolutely nowhere to go, and Rodgers gets creamed after holding it a split second too long, or there is a pick 6, we're all freaking out.

I didn't necessarily agree with it, but I'm sure they know what they are doing, and saw something that said they should run it. This is doubly the case if there was a run/pass option and Rodgers also went with the draw play.
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Offline longtimefan  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:07:36 PM(UTC)
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the onside kick was more of a huge call
Offline wils0646  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:09:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
the onside kick was more of a huge call


It would have worked too if Crosby didn't crush it. There were no white jerseys at all close to the ball.
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Offline warhawk  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:15:11 PM(UTC)
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Bad things can happen throwing the ball over the middle down there and all the defenders will be ready for anything on the sidelines and are expecting that very throw.

The lesson isn't in the call made it's in the fact you don't ever want to be 3'rd and 10 down in that part of the field. The percentages of scoring a TD in that case is very low and that is why it is critical to not get in that position in the first place.

In otherwords I would be more focused on the failure of the first two downs than the call on third. The percentages of TD's scored in that situation is very low regardless of what play is called and I see nothing wrong in at least assuring points vs. a potential momentum changing turnover.
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Offline Greg C.  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:44:42 PM(UTC)
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A couple of things:

1. Iron Man is right to question this call, and he did it in a respectful way. That's one of the great things about fan forums. We can discuss calls that don't make sense to us.

2. A couple of posters have referred to this call as a draw play. It wasn't. It was a typical handoff to the left side. I might've understood the call if we had a Reggie Bush or Warrick Dunn or someone like that to carry the ball. But Ryan Grant is not going to pick up 14 yards on that play. Mike McCarthy is a very good play caller, but that one seemed pretty odd to me.
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