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Offline TheEngineer  
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:24:18 AM(UTC)
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Switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense isn't merely taking out a linemen and putting in an extra LB. You need to train the existing players to play differently, and to draft and pick up players who are better at fitting the scheme. Luckily we have an excellent DC in DC (gee, wasn't he just built to be a defensive coordinator?) who shall make the transition a lot easier to bear.

So with all this talk of the Packers shifting to a 3-4 defense, how long do you think it will take the Packers to become a dominant force in this scheme? I would normally give it 3 years to get going, but McCarthy and Thompson are on the spot to produce a much improved 2009 showing. There may be a good chance the 3-4 conversion will be scrapped before it really takes flight. On the other hand, Capers and his staff may just be enough for the history books to remember 2008 as an aberration of an otherwise solid few years in Green Bay. Thoughts?
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Offline all_about_da_packers  
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:39:03 AM(UTC)
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I won't put a specific time frame on it, but I think it's not fair to expect immediate results.

The biggest thing going forward has to be getting the right personnel in here to run the scheme. That won't be a problem however, since Ted himself played in the 3-4 and our Director of Player Personnel Reggie McKenzie played under Dom Capers back in college (also the 3-4).

It'll take a year just to get the players familiar with the scheme, plays, concepts, etc. and I think in year 2 you'll see the players start to grow in the scheme.

I think it's fair to expect the Packers D to show its true colours in 3 years, after they've had a chance to get comfortable and the 3-4 scheme has been developed to suit the players on the roster. So three years would mean the 2011 season.
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Offline tromadz  
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:39:51 AM(UTC)
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It's not as hard as you're making it out to be.

It's not as easy as flipping a switch, but it's not rocket science either. We'll be ready by opening day.
Offline all_about_da_packers  
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:41:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
It's not as hard as you're making it out to be.

It's not as easy as flipping a switch, but it's not rocket science either. We'll be ready by opening day.


Being ready, and excelling, are two different things though.

I don't doubt the Packers will be ready when the season starts. However, becoming an elite D isn't going to happen in a matter of months.
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Offline tromadz  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 4:04:00 AM(UTC)
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We'll be ready...to excel.

You know what I meant.

You know who won't be ready? The other NFC North teams.
Offline all_about_da_packers  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 4:05:08 AM(UTC)
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I know exactly what you mean. I so want September to start right now!
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Offline Since69  
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 2:35:04 PM(UTC)
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I hate to be a wet blanket, but how long did it take us to "excel" in the 4-3?

The correct answer may be never...
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Offline Bigbyfan  
#8 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 2:43:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I hate to be a wet blanket, but how long did it take us to "excel" in the 4-3?

The correct answer may be never...


Which is why we are switching to the 3-4....
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Offline jbshell04  
#9 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 2:47:47 PM(UTC)
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As far as time length you will see it more pronounced by midseason. It will b important for the offense to put up points and alot of them./ That said I think you will see alot hybrid in the first year to use the current personnel we have
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Offline warhawk  
#10 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:19:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
We'll be ready...to excel.

You know what I meant.

You know who won't be ready? The other NFC North teams.


I think the thing people need to realize is this is going to be a hybred 3-4 and Ted Thompson was quoted as saying we could have 4 down lineman as much as 50% of the time.

Capers challenge is no less than any other "D" Coordinator in devising a system that utilizes the strength of the players. He's had plenty of years experience doing just that.

It still boils down to football and tackling the guy with the ball and pressuring the QB. They talk about poor Kampman won't fit in this scheme and I just laugh. For one thing, when your moving guys around and bringing players from different spots it is much harder for the offense to know whats coming and double team or chip players off the edge.

Last year Kampman came from the same spot 98% of the time and most often had two bodies on him whereas this coming year that won't be the case. My guess is he has just as many sacks or more under Capers.
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Offline jdog2  
#11 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:36:32 PM(UTC)
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I think it is going to take 2-3 years for the defense to really understand the scheme and not over think plays.
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Offline warhawk  
#12 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 6:14:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I think it is going to take 2-3 years for the defense to really understand the scheme and not over think plays.


If Mike McCarthy felt it would take any longer than the beginning of the season for this to be a better and more effective defense then the one he just ran out of town you can bet your buns he would never have done it.

Two to three years? Geez man, were not sending guys to the freaking moon.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 6:30:06 PM(UTC)
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I agree. If it takes these guys that long to adapt, they need to be sent packing and we need to bring in some more flexible players.
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Offline djcubez  
#14 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:22:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I think it is going to take 2-3 years for the defense to really understand the scheme and not over think plays.


If Mike McCarthy felt it would take any longer than the beginning of the season for this to be a better and more effective defense then the one he just ran out of town you can bet your buns he would never have done it.

Two to three years? Geez man, were not sending guys to the freaking moon.

Exactly my opinion. Mike McCarthy wouldn't just switch to 3-4 after such a bad season if he didn't except immediate results. He doesn't have 2-3 years for this team to excel.
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Offline jdog2  
#15 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:56:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I think it is going to take 2-3 years for the defense to really understand the scheme and not over think plays.


If Mike McCarthy felt it would take any longer than the beginning of the season for this to be a better and more effective defense then the one he just ran out of town you can bet your buns he would never have done it.

Two to three years? Geez man, were not sending guys to the freaking moon.


The question was how long will it take them to excel in the 3-4 and I think it will take 2-3 years to excel. The might be good by midseason, but they won't be great till they play a full season in it. Just my opinion.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#16 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:21:12 AM(UTC)
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The team will be ready for the 3-4. Will they be a top 5 D. No, but I expect them to be in the top 10 which is good.

The team may never make it to #1, but they don't need to. The offense is able to score points, so the Defense can afford to be a little lower ranked. Just not as low as this last year.
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Offline El3ment12  
#17 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 11:42:07 AM(UTC)
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I'm not waiting 2-3 years. We better be amazing by opening day
Offline ILikeThePackers39  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 3:31:11 PM(UTC)
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My thoughts are:

1. With all due respect to all of y'all, Dom Capers and Co. know defense better than anyone who posts on these boards.

2. Assuming Thompson and McCarthy aren't suffering from severe brain damage, they know they don't have 2-3 years to turn things around. This wasn't some long-term project they started, and I think the money being handed out and the calibre of coaches that money's going to indicate a commitment to turning things around quickly.

3. Personnel will be brought in to help w/ the transition - maybe not some household name, but I'm positive we'll be seeing some new faces.

4. The defense will rebound as a result and we'll be in the top 10.
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Offline Pack93z  
#19 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 3:35:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

1. With all due respect to all of y'all, Dom Capers and Co. know defense better than anyone who posts on these boards.
.


You hurt my little ole feelings now.. :lol:

Nice post... it will be interesting to see how we attack FA this season.

We spent some pretty good coin in Capers.. and I am sure Trgovac was offered more than the minimum for a DC... so we probably invested a good chunk there.

Will Ted keep the checkbook smokin' in the free agency period?

Probably not like some would wish, but it shall be interesting to me.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline ILikeThePackers39  
#20 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 3:46:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

1. With all due respect to all of y'all, Dom Capers and Co. know defense better than anyone who posts on these boards.
.


You hurt my little ole feelings now.. :lol:

Nice post... it will be interesting to see how we attack FA this season.

We spent some pretty good coin in Capers.. and I am sure Trgovac was offered more than the minimum for a DC... so we probably invested a good chunk there.

Will Ted keep the checkbook smokin' in the free agency period?

Probably not like some would wish, but it shall be interesting to me.



Aw, I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings - I get that it's a discussion board and people tend to... discuss things, and I'm not trying to say people don't know their football, because it's obvious that you folks really do. I'm just poking a little fun, because there's so much trepidation amongst the fans about how we don't have the players, while the coaches seem to disagree. I'm hoping the coaches know better than we do, needless to say.

As for Ted, I'm going on the assumption that he likes his job and would like to keep it. If I'm right about that and if he's not a complete idiot, he'll spend some money and bring in some useful pieces. Will they be huge names? Probably not, if they don't fit into what McCarthy and Capers are planning. But I'm betting he'll spend some cash.
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Offline Pack93z  
#21 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 3:50:44 PM(UTC)
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It was a joke Ilike.. nothing more.. I need to frame them better I thinky.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Online Zero2Cool  
#22 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 3:51:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
My thoughts are:

1. With all due respect to all of y'all, Dom Capers and Co. know defense better than anyone who posts on these boards.


You don't know the true identity behind anyone's screen name. Heck, dhazer could really be Dick LeBeau. And maybe I'm Vince Lombardi. What's up NOW!! :cheers:
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Offline ILikeThePackers39  
#23 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 3:54:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
My thoughts are:

1. With all due respect to all of y'all, Dom Capers and Co. know defense better than anyone who posts on these boards.


You don't know the true identity behind anyone's screen name. Heck, dhazer could really be Dick LeBeau. And maybe I'm Vince Lombardi. What's up NOW!! :cheers:



Well, that would be... interesting. I guess then I'd ask what the hell DH is doing posting on a Packers' Fan board instead of getting ready for the Superbowl, and I'd want to ask you what being undead is like. :pottytrain2:
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Offline ILikeThePackers39  
#24 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 3:55:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
It was a joke Ilike.. nothing more.. I need to frame them better I thinky.


No worries, I got that - I was more clarifying, since I've dropped the old "our coaches know the game better than you lot" argument a number of times, and I thought it wouldn't hurt to make sure people knew that I didn't mean "You people don't know football at all" or something.
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Offline porky88  
#25 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 7:31:53 PM(UTC)
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The NFL is built for teams that struggled in one year to be a good team in the next. Miami and Atlanta are clear examples of this and the Packers shouldn't make excuses if the defense isn't good.

People need to remember that Green Bay's offense is so good that even if the defenses can rank say 17th in yardage and 15th in points that it's going to more than likely be a good year.
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