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Offline Pack93z  
#1 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 12:15:52 PM(UTC)
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Take a gander back into history a little and take a peak at how he used Tony Brackens in 1999.

That defense finished ranked 1st in points and 4th in yards.

Brackens, at 6-4 and 265... Capers moved him all over the place and Tony responded with 12 sacks and two picks (1 for a TD)

Brackens played DE prior and post Capers stint in Jacksonville.. but quite a bit of physical traits and style of play are somewhat common between Kampman and Brackens..

BTW.. that was a career year for Brackens, in his career he tallied 55 sacks overall during 8 years.. so he had proven ability to rush the passer prior to and post the 3-4..

Thought it might bring a little relief to the angst that some are having to the 3-4 and Kampman.. I trust Capers will find a way to utilize Kampman's talents to help the overall defense.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Rockmolder  
#2 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 12:22:15 PM(UTC)
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Great find. Makes me a bit more confidend that Capers knows what he's doing with Kampman.

Now ofcourse these aren't the same guys and you can't really expect the same results... but if this is any kind of indication for Kampman's rise in stats, he'll have a 20 sacks year (I know, I know, getting ahead of things).
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Online Zero2Cool  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 12:33:19 PM(UTC)
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I'm still holding out that Kampman will be moved to the outside. His body type makes me think of a James Harrison or Jamie Farrior or whoever their names are.
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Offline Pack93z  
#4 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 12:47:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I'm still holding out that Kampman will be moved to the outside. His body type makes me think of a James Harrison or Jamie Farrior or whoever their names are.


Brackens was moved outside as well.. but he also was lined up inside with his hand down on occasion ala Suggs in the Championship games.. most of the time Brackens came off the right side of the offense.. but that wasn't completely static either.

That was part of the linebacker project.. in which I am projecting that Kampman will be used from the exterior.. another name that floats out there is Adailus Thomas.. at 6-2 270.. playing out in space.

I went back and started looking for players that fit the mold of Kampman and that played in Capers system under him.. Brackens came close to the mold.. thought it was interesting.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline HoustonMatt  
#5 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 12:52:15 PM(UTC)
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Excellent comp. It's right on point with the thread I started about different 3-4 schemes and different body types that can work within a scheme. I think our original panic (myself included) about certain players - particularily Kampman - not being a fit for this defense were a bit overblown. Most of us are pretty new to the 3-4 though and we all seem to be learning nicely.
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Offline Pack93z  
#6 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 12:55:22 PM(UTC)
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Hey.. looks like someone else is thinking in those terms as well.. did a search for Brackens and hit this article.

More here....

Quote:
Although some will question whether Kampman can make the transition to outside linebacker in a 3-4, the two-time Pro Bowl pick shouldn't have any trouble developing into a potent outside rusher. He already has 50.5 career sacks, including 37 in the past three seasons, and is a high motor player with the skills to be an impact player off the edge. Besides, Capers successfully transformed other defensive ends into productive outside linebackers in his scheme. He used a similar tactic at Jacksonville in 1999 with Tony Brackens, who finished with 12 sacks that season.



And Matt... HoustonMatt.. here is another read.. (yes call it a selfish plug) .. lol.

http://www.packershome.c...ile=viewtopic&t=3541
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline DakotaT  
#7 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 1:28:07 PM(UTC)
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What happens when Kampmann has to pick up a tight end or running back in coverage? I like the feel good thing but I hope none of you think that OLB position has no coverage responsibilities.
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Offline HoustonMatt  
#8 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 1:32:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
What happens when Kampmann has to pick up a tight end or running back in coverage? I like the feel good thing but I hope none of you think that OLB position has no coverage responsibilities.


There's a lot of different options, but think of it this way. In a 4-3, who would pick up that TE or RB? One of the 3 LBs. In a 3-4, there are still 3 other LBs to handle that responsibility. If Kampy plays weak side, he would not be responsible for a TE and if a RB goes into a route, one of the ILB can pick him up, still allowing Kampy to move at the QB.

Of course, that's in man coverage, but you get the idea.
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Offline Pack93z  
#9 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 1:48:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
What happens when Kampmann has to pick up a tight end or running back in coverage? I like the feel good thing but I hope none of you think that OLB position has no coverage responsibilities.


Of course not.. but honestly, do you believe that we will be asked to man up cover a TE?

Let pretend for a moment that Barnett takes one of the inside spots, (suspect in shedding blocks but anyway).. if Kampy doesn't have rush responsibility on that given play, don't you believe that he will be asked to drop into a zone and if you want to man up the TE that Barnett or the other interior backer will be asked to pick that coverage up?

I think the days of asking our Backers to man cover everything out of the backfield ceased with the release of Sanders.. most defenses don't put the type of coverage responsibility upon the backers each and every freaking play.

But Dakota.. to your question.. if Kampy is dropping into a ton of coverages then I will have just about a large of problem with Capers scheme as I did with Sanders man up rule for the backers.. disguise the coverages and protect the weak spots in the personnel.

I can't wait til we start playing a game of chess with the OC within a game again.. that is half of my fun in watching defenses play.. the game within the game so to speak.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline DakotaT  
#10 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 1:50:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
What happens when Kampmann has to pick up a tight end or running back in coverage? I like the feel good thing but I hope none of you think that OLB position has no coverage responsibilities.


There's a lot of different options, but think of it this way. In a 4-3, who would pick up that TE or RB? One of the 3 LBs. In a 3-4, there are still 3 other LBs to handle that responsibility. If Kampy plays weak side, he would not be responsible for a TE and if a RB goes into a route, one of the ILB can pick him up, still allowing Kampy to move at the QB.

Of course, that's in man coverage, but you get the idea.


Well, then the best comparison is Vrabel in New England not Tony Brakens. I have no problem with this defense, but I'm real skeptical about how Kampmann fits in.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 2:00:03 PM(UTC)
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If Kamp does get moved to OLB, don't expect him in coverage unless it is a zone blitz drop back. He is not going to be able to cover TE/RB. He will basically always be a rusher. That is what he does best, and unless it is to create confusion, he will continue to do that.

I really do not see him moving to OLB. IMO he will be much more valuable as DE. Kamp has worked extremely hard to get and keep his weight in the 260 range. He was 280+ coming out of college. I think it would make more sense to let him bulk up some and bounce around the Dline with Jenkins.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline Pack93z  
#12 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 2:11:38 PM(UTC)
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Okay.. lets recap a little here.

Tony Brackens, a pass rushing DE, moved to OLB to get him more opportunities from even more of an outside angle.. but used in coverage in short zone drops. 260, good lateral speed, but no one would mistake him for a fluid linebacker.

Sound like someone familiar?

How many times do you see Ware or Merriman dropping into coverage.. Not very freaking often.

They are basically stand up DE, rushing from more of a outside angle and using their speed and power on the outer shoulder of a tackle.. if you as an offense make a mistake of trying to block them with a TE or back you are toast.

That is the role I am guessing.. but don't mistake that I think you will see Kampy also dropping inside and putting his hand down in known passing situation or rotated in during the game.

BTW.. how many outside running plays do you think you would see to Kampman's side in a 3-4? Guards and Tackles would have a hard time reaching out and effectively blocking him and FB and TE wouldn't have much luck against the more stout Kampman.

Call it a hunch.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline beast  
#13 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 4:26:26 PM(UTC)
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I'm guessing Kampman will be the LOLB. If he is asked to cover it will be in a zone and all he does is play it smart. You don't have to be the best cover person for zone.

And Kampman did try to cover Jason Whitten on one play last year and while he didn't do great it was Jason Whitten, one of the better TE in the NFL. And that was Kampman trying to jam Whitten at the line and then try to get up with him. At LB he'll already be back in space.
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Offline warhawk  
#14 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 4:42:03 PM(UTC)
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Capes will pull the scissors and shuffle Kampman to the outside....often.
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Offline flep  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 5:03:47 PM(UTC)
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Kamp in my eyes IS mobile enough to play OLB.
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