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djcubez  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 3:53:02 AM(UTC)
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Novel concept, instead of throwing around uncorroborated numbers, why don't you guys point to the number of passes that were actually under or over five yards? Ya know, give your arguments some meat?

Alright I exaggerated. The point I was trying to make is a lot of his throws were short with YAC and most of them were setup by a defensive commitment to the run game.
porky88  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:08:43 AM(UTC)
I think most people understand that Favre played out of his mind against the Packers. I started two threads right after the game and I believe I put in the Packers at Vikings thoughts thread that Favre beat the Packers and Minnesota doesn't win without him. He' has improved that team by a huge margin. GB dared Favre to beat them and he did. That simple

Again though, the question was never whether or not Favre could play one game or two or even five. It's can he go through the entire season and the postseason with consistent play and not fade down the stretch? The NFL is a marathon and not a sprint.

As far as the whole Rodgers on Vikings and Vikings are better or whatnot. Go read the espn boards and come back. Favre fans have trashed Rodgers as much, if not more than Packer fans have trashed Favre. When Mike and Mike in the Morning is addressing some of the comments coming in on those boards, you know the guy is getting a lot of unnecessary flack.

It works both ways, but then again, most things do.
Gravedigga  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:01:27 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Can some people just give Favre some credit???

In a pressure filled game in which he knew was going to be the most watched MNF game ever, in which he knew that there were millions of people hoping he fails, etc., he played one of his best games EVER. He deserves credit even though a lot of people that have always hated him point to BS stuff.

"If you put Rodgers on the Vikings and you put Favre on the Packers, then hands on Rodgers would have done better" - how do you know that and who cares???

"Rodgers passed for more yards than Favre, he had a better game anyway"

I did not confirm this but on the radio they were saying that out of Rodgers 380 yards, 140 yards came from the final five minutes (70 yards from a 70 second drive and 70 yards from a 120 second drive).

I'm convinced there are fans that don't even watch games and just look at box scores. Why would the Vikings if they are up by 16 or whatever continue to throw a ton if they have AP. It only makes sense that they are going to start running more and Favre throwing less and taking no chances - hence he would obviously have less yards.

This isn't a jab at Rodgers because I have said in other threads he played a good game (not "great" IMO) and the thing that impressed me the most about him was the way he handled himself. It was pure class. He waited after the game to find Favre and hug him even though everyone in the world wants him to hate Favre. He didn't throw his O-line under the bus as he could have. He has flaws, sure, as does almost every QB in hte history of the game (including Favre). He threw a costly INT, Favre didn't, he fumbled, Favre didn't, he took a stupid safety, Favre didn't, etc. But then again he faced much much much more of a pass rush than Favre (thats an understatement), Donald Lee dropped a key pass, etc. Its all good. But its pretty amazing for a 40 year old QB to play just as well or if not better than a 20 something.

I thought I'd give him some credit in a Favre dedicated section of the site. This should somewhat even out all the Favre bashing threads here.


Favre did what he was paid to do. He doesn't deserve shit for credit. Not to mention the fact that most of his yards resulted from having 7 seconds in a pocket to throw the damn ball. Imagine if we had teams stacking 8 in the box to make sure Ryan Grant didn't run all over them--any starting QB should have a field day. Plus, most of Favre's throws were less than 5 yards, the receivers did most of the work.


The touchdown where Al Harris got shook out his boots it was 1.5 seconds, quick pump, and throw. The rest(Harris pointing at teammates) is history.
Gravedigga  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:15:38 AM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post


You say "you guys" like you mean me, however I never made excuses for the game. We lost fair and square. All I'm saying is Brett didn't do shit. He made a pass when it counted but that's what's required for a [size=18]game-managing QB[/size]. His team has a run game and good defense so there's relatively no pressure on Favre to force it in there. I mean do I deserve credit every day I go and do a job I'm paid to do without making mistakes? I agree, Favre played a good game but he doesn't deserve all this credit for the win. It's not like he was bombing them on us every play and making our secondary look like fools. The Vikings as a team made our defense look like shit, not all this Favreian stuff. Wait until Favre really has to put everything on his shoulders and win a game--I guarantee he won't pull anything out of his ass like against the 49ers.

Plus what's this about Cutler. The reason we beat him is our pressure forced him to make bad throws. We rarely put any pressure on Favre because we had a weak link at safety and we focused too much on All Day. And that's not called an "excuse" for losing, it's called a "reason" for losing.


Game managing QB? Wanna give the credit to Peterson? Alright, lets go over the box score.

Peterson: 25 carries, 55 yards, 2.1 yards per carry, 1 TD
Vikings: 30 carries, 63 yards, 2.1 yards per carry

Favre 24/31 271 yards, 3 touchdowns

Because of Favres arm, the Vikings didnt need to pass much in the 4th quarter. Because of Favres long pass, Peterson got a short easy TD. Because of Favre, the Vikings won. I have a hard time seeing the Vikings win with T. Jackson or Sage behind center. Every time they needed a big play, there he was, MANAGING to pillage our "great secondary"

No pressure on Favre because of a great running game? 2 yards per carry man. Thats A LOT of pressure knowing you have to make ALL the big plays in order to get points. Knowing that because the great Peterson lost the fumble which was returned for a TD, he had to get more points. This game was all about Favre and hardly at all about Peterson. Most watched cable program ever, one of the highest pressure situation maybe ever for Favre and he was nearly flawless. Take your sour grapes and excuses elsewhere :)
Gravedigga  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:17:35 AM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Love how people are saying Rodgers padded his stats in garbage time. 140 yards in the 4th. The only difference between him and Brett is that Rodgers made those garbage time passes. Didn't MN go for a bomb with the game ticking away? Only Brett missed.


He did it on purpose. No use in kicking a dying dog.
Zero2Cool  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:20:41 AM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
The touchdown where Al Harris got shook out his boots it was 1.5 seconds, quick pump, and throw. The rest(Harris pointing at teammates) is history.
You mean the play where the safety failed to cover the top as Harris expected? Yeah, about 2 seconds.
Gravedigga  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:23:31 AM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
The touchdown where Al Harris got shook out his boots it was 1.5 seconds, quick pump, and throw. The rest(Harris pointing at teammates) is history.
You mean the play where the safety failed to cover the top as Harris expected? Yeah, about 2 seconds.


I believe it was man coverage with some up top help. But Harris always covers one on one, bump and run with no help. I doubt it was a zone coverage there.
Rockmolder  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:46:08 AM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
The touchdown where Al Harris got shook out his boots it was 1.5 seconds, quick pump, and throw. The rest(Harris pointing at teammates) is history.
You mean the play where the safety failed to cover the top as Harris expected? Yeah, about 2 seconds.


I believe it was man coverage with some up top help. But Harris always covers one on one, bump and run with no help. I doubt it was a zone coverage there.


I'm pretty sure it wasn't. He obviously just let him go. He had the under coverage and Martin the over coverage. Martin just never got therei.

I think it might look like man because, I think, Harris stretched out his zone to give some help to Martin, with no one else on his side on the field.
RedSoxExcel  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:09:24 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post


You say "you guys" like you mean me, however I never made excuses for the game. We lost fair and square. All I'm saying is Brett didn't do shit. He made a pass when it counted but that's what's required for a game-managing QB. His team has a run game and good defense so there's relatively no pressure on Favre to force it in there. I mean do I deserve credit every day I go and do a job I'm paid to do without making mistakes? I agree, Favre played a good game but he doesn't deserve all this credit for the win. It's not like he was bombing them on us every play and making our secondary look like fools. The Vikings as a team made our defense look like shit, not all this Favreian stuff. Wait until Favre really has to put everything on his shoulders and win a game--I guarantee he won't pull anything out of his ass like against the 49ers.

Plus what's this about Cutler. The reason we beat him is our pressure forced him to make bad throws. We rarely put any pressure on Favre because we had a weak link at safety and we focused too much on All Day. And that's not called an "excuse" for losing, it's called a "reason" for losing.


I don't get it. He has no pressure? Did you even watch the game, this running game your talking about was stuffed. I don't have the stat but I bet Favre converted many 3rd and longs when the pressure is ALL on him because its a passing down and the Vikings defense is stting down.

"Wait until Favre really has to put everything on his shoulders and win a game" - He already did, 80 yard drive with 90 seconds left, no time outs? I don't get it.

Plus there are people discounting Favre's passes because of YAC but do not do the same for Rodgers (i.e. Finleys TD), it works both ways. YAC are part of the game. Also the throwing over 5 yards issue - I did a quick search and I found 8 of Favre's 24 passes went for more than 15 yards. I don't know about the 5 yards. But I know of the touchdown with Berriman was 30 yards and there was maybe 2 YAC and the Harvin 45 yarder, which I would guess had 5 YAC. Plus his average yards per pass was 11.29. How do you respond to that?

The Berriman touchdown is a perfect example. I don't get what that has to do with having "7 seconds per play". He snapped it, threw it between 1-2 seconds right into the hands of the receiver in stride.

I don't even care about this because as Zero said he's not our concern. But I just don't get the position that he managed the game.
RedSoxExcel  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:11:22 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
The touchdown where Al Harris got shook out his boots it was 1.5 seconds, quick pump, and throw. The rest(Harris pointing at teammates) is history.
You mean the play where the safety failed to cover the top as Harris expected? Yeah, about 2 seconds.


I believe it was man coverage with some up top help. But Harris always covers one on one, bump and run with no help. I doubt it was a zone coverage there.


I'm pretty sure it wasn't. He obviously just let him go. He had the under coverage and Martin the over coverage. Martin just never got therei.

I think it might look like man because, I think, Harris stretched out his zone to give some help to Martin, with no one else on his side on the field.


I think it was a broken play. Harris thought he had coverage behind him. You can tell because he was already pulling out his mouthguard to yell at Martin before Berriman got into the endzone, lol.
longtimefan  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:21:29 PM(UTC)
Pressure in this instance = BLITZES, and more than 3 D-L rushing him...

Pressure in this instance DOES NOT= media hype, revenge, needing to win
djcubez  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:16:33 PM(UTC)
Before I start I'll try and explain myself better, which is me admitting I'm wrong. Of course Favre deserves some credit, it's not like everyone can be a QB in the NFL and win big games. That said, I don't think he deserves the amount of credit he's getting.

" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post


You say "you guys" like you mean me, however I never made excuses for the game. We lost fair and square. All I'm saying is Brett didn't do shit. He made a pass when it counted but that's what's required for a game-managing QB. His team has a run game and good defense so there's relatively no pressure on Favre to force it in there. I mean do I deserve credit every day I go and do a job I'm paid to do without making mistakes? I agree, Favre played a good game but he doesn't deserve all this credit for the win. It's not like he was bombing them on us every play and making our secondary look like fools. The Vikings as a team made our defense look like shit, not all this Favreian stuff. Wait until Favre really has to put everything on his shoulders and win a game--I guarantee he won't pull anything out of his ass like against the 49ers.

Plus what's this about Cutler. The reason we beat him is our pressure forced him to make bad throws. We rarely put any pressure on Favre because we had a weak link at safety and we focused too much on All Day. And that's not called an "excuse" for losing, it's called a "reason" for losing.

I don't get it. He has no pressure? Did you even watch the game, this running game your talking about was stuffed. I don't have the stat but I bet Favre converted many 3rd and longs when the pressure is ALL on him because its a passing down and the Vikings defense is stting down.


The running game was stuffed because that was our gameplan. We were trying to force Favre to beat us with his arm. However, we didn't really do much to stop him when he did throw it. We didn't put any pressure on him and we allowed him to consistently hit his dump-off targets. The few deep balls he through took advantage of our inconsistent safety play and miscommunication.

Quote:
"Wait until Favre really has to put everything on his shoulders and win a game" - He already did, 80 yard drive with 90 seconds left, no time outs? I don't get it.

Did you see that play? Did you see that drive? "Greg Lewis leaped for a 32-yard touchdown catch with 2 seconds left." My point is that he's not gonna pull that out of his ass every time they need a win. He had one play left from the opposing 32-yard line, we are talking 4th-and-26 odds here. No way do they win that game if they tried it again.

Quote:
Plus there are people discounting Favre's passes because of YAC but do not do the same for Rodgers (i.e. Finleys TD), it works both ways. YAC are part of the game. Also the throwing over 5 yards issue - I did a quick search and I found 8 of Favre's 24 passes went for more than 15 yards. I don't know about the 5 yards. But I know of the touchdown with Berriman was 30 yards and there was maybe 2 YAC and the Harvin 45 yarder, which I would guess had 5 YAC. Plus his average yards per pass was 11.29. How do you respond to that?


You do know those 8 plays of 15 or more include YAC don't you? The Berrian TD was blown coverage by the safety (Al Harris fucked up pretty royally too) although it was a well thrown ball. I also never said Rodgers' deserves more credit for his passes than Favre or that Rodgers' YAC is "worth more." Average yards per pass also doesn't say shit about how long he actually threw the ball, it takes all your total passing yards and divides them by the amount of completions. One long touchdown can render that stat almost completely irrelevant. I prefer something like average yards per attempt which was about 8.7. Also there yards per pass play were actually 8.5 (source).

Quote:
The Berriman touchdown is a perfect example. I don't get what that has to do with having "7 seconds per play". He snapped it, threw it between 1-2 seconds right into the hands of the receiver in stride.

It was a blown play? And it was a decent throw, but what QB in the NFL doesn't hit a wide open receiver lol.

Quote:
I don't even care about this because as Zero said he's not our concern. But I just don't get the position that he managed the game.


All I'm saying is Favre did what he was supposed to, sure he deserves credit for that but the game was never on the line for him, the Vikings were never down and the entire Packers defense was committed to stopping Adrian Peterson, not Favre. I'm sure if the Vikings were losing at some point and Favre was forced to make a play, we might have seen an entirely different game.
IronMan  
#33 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:22:40 PM(UTC)
Favre carved up the Packers. No question about it. We dared him to beat us and he did just that. Anyone who says different is just bitter and is not being objective. Period.
djcubez  
#34 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:25:55 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Favre carved up the Packers. No question about it. We dared him to beat us and he did just that. Anyone who says different is just bitter and is not being objective. Period.

Favre got handed this game. I want to see him forced to win a game against a playoff caliber team before I give him any credit. He snaked a win from the 49ers and the Packers are too busy shooting themselves in the foot to count as a playoff team right now. Otherwise wins against the Lions, Browns and Rams leave me unimpressed.
MassPackersFan  
#35 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:03:04 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Favre carved up the Packers. No question about it. We dared him to beat us and he did just that. Anyone who says different is just bitter and is not being objective. Period.


No doubt about it, he had one of those rare games where he's just locked in.
CDNRodgersfan  
#36 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:54:46 PM(UTC)
Ya but I want to see him do it against a playoff team in Dec, trailing by 14, on the road, with AD out, WR's all injured, with 1 second to throw and playing with a broken ankle. Yep only then will I admit he's done anything.
Zero2Cool  
#37 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:08:16 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Favre carved up the Packers. No question about it. We dared him to beat us and he did just that. Anyone who says different is just bitter and is not being objective. Period.


No real question about that one. The Vikings QB carved up the Packers ... how many days ago was this now? ... and the Packers did dare him to beat them. One of our DL even said they were going to force Vikings QB to beat the Packers by stopping Adrian. They slowed Adrian down, but in the mean time gave Vikings QB all the time in the world to throw balls left, right, up, down, and every other direction he felt necessary.

Vikings QB > Packers Defense ... no doubt. I would have liked seeing what happened if the Packers didn't have to worry about Adrian. Buts, ifs, blahs. It was more than a week ago and its about time to talk Lions. (I've said about a dozen times after I rambled about the subject, lol)
Gravedigga  
#38 Posted : Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:22:41 AM(UTC)
Bottom line is this. A good coaching staff might dare you to beat them in the first quarter or so. But if a strategy isn't working, you make adjustments. I wasn't paying attention but i seriously doubt McCarthy was playing to stop the run on 3rd and long the whole game. Or on all 1st & 10's for that matter. If he was, then he's an idiot and deserves to be fired. Coaching is about adjustments and what you guys are trying to convince us "Favre Lovers" of is that either McCarthy & co are too stupid to make proper adjustments rather than Favre is a good QB who picked apart that Packer defense. Your argument makes no sense. A team tries to stop the other team. They dont try and stop Peterson from getting 100 yards. The goal is to win.

I dont know but i hardly believe that Ted Thompson and MM's strategy coming in to the game was to shut down AP and let Favre go wild all over their team. Something about that just doesnt make sense. Give him (Favre/Vikings QB) credit where credit is due.
Gravedigga  
#39 Posted : Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:26:05 AM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Favre carved up the Packers. No question about it. We dared him to beat us and he did just that. Anyone who says different is just bitter and is not being objective. Period.

Favre got handed this game. I want to see him forced to win a game against a playoff caliber team before I give him any credit. He snaked a win from the 49ers and the Packers are too busy shooting themselves in the foot to count as a playoff team right now. Otherwise wins against the Lions, Browns and Rams leave me unimpressed.


Handed this game? Did Harris & Woodson play off the receivers to pad Favres stats? Did Chillar decide not to intercept the 1st TD so to be nice to Favre? Did Harris let Berrian blow past him out of pity? Give me a break. Favre put the Packers, Mike McCarthy & Ted Thompson over his kneee and gave them a spanking. Enough with the sour grapes. Plenty of time for that in a few weeks.
MassPackersFan  
#40 Posted : Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:37:05 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Enough with the sour grapes. Plenty of time for that in a few weeks.


More prognostication skills. You should stop posting here and go to Vegas.
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