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Offline Zero2Cool  
#136 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:39:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I am a registered official in Ohio and that was a garbage call. Just because you TRIP over someone in NO WAY means it is a trip. Dugan went low for a cut block and the guy tried to hurdle him and got his legs contacted with the legs of the blocker. Not intentional in ANY WAY. Terrible call. That type of thing could be called 10 times every game.

You come to the defense of a call like this for the Vikings, but when a Packer lost his footing, slipped into the opponent on a kickoff, nothing? You know what the player's intentions were? Unbelievable.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
And the Favre screen pass? Are you guys really that bitter that you could pin that on Brett. A High Throw? Ummmmmm most screen passes of that distance are high because even though the guy is close you have to lob it over the Defense. He couldn't have put it in his belly, Taylor's has to use his hands. Who catches with there belly in the pros anyhow? Unbelievable.


Rodgers does this same play, you'd blame him for the loss. Vikings QB does it, you say anyone that points out it was a bad throw must be bitter. Unbelievable.
UserPostedImage

You do NOT throw a 5 yard screen pass if a defender is between you and the potential receiver is facing you. The receiving player should be motioning away from you and the QB should lead the receiver down field or to open field.

In this case the ball should have been thrown outside to Taylors right arm and mid level, not high and there wasn't anyone around to throw it over. Vikings QB threw a bad pass, big deal. He's not perfect, get over it. Was the play his fault? Taylor SHOULD have caught the ball. Rule one in catching, if you can put your hands on it, you should catch it.

Watch the play by clicking HERE.

I'm not a registered official in any state or anything fancy, but I believe the cause of the Vikings losing the game is on Brad Childress. Not so much Taylor or Vikings QB. Vikings were within FG range and passing instead of running? I understand you play to win the game, but I just think that was bad. 51 passes. 18 rushes for Adrian?
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Offline dd80forever  
#137 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:56:48 PM(UTC)
dd80forever

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What?

Zero, you don't lead a RB on any type of screen play in the box. The idea of it is to face poor pass blocking and let the rushers go past you, than have the ball dumped over the top. I don't know where you get you should lead him. Look at Taylors position, You wanted him to be lead to his outside shoulder? I'm sorry, but thats absurd. If Taylor was to be lead he surely wouldn't be facing the way he is in your snapshot. It is set up like any other screen play in the box run by every other team in the NFL. Lead on a middle screen? Huh?

If he takes off like that the defender you see in the picture would be all over him.


Favre's location on the pass was fine, if anything he put to much zip on it for a short pass but these are NFL players that need to catch the ball.


I would come to defense on A-Rod on a play like this to. If you hit the WR in the hands and it bounces off and gets picked, you can't put that on ANY QB.


The Vikes played well, head up with one of the best in the NFL and got screwed on a bogus tripping call that took points off the board and were victimized by fluke Defensive scores. I am not trying to convince you because you know, deep down inside, that this team is alot further along than GB is.
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Offline Formo  
#138 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:03:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

UserPostedImage

You do NOT throw a 5 yard screen pass if a defender is between you and the potential receiver is facing you. The receiving player should be motioning away from you and the QB should lead the receiver down field or to open field.

In this case the ball should have been thrown outside to Taylors right arm and mid level, not high and there wasn't anyone around to throw it over. Vikings QB threw a bad pass, big deal. He's not perfect, get over it. Was the play his fault? Taylor SHOULD have caught the ball. Rule one in catching, if you can put your hands on it, you should catch it.

Watch the play by clicking HERE.

I'm not a registered official in any state or anything fancy, but I believe the cause of the Vikings losing the game is on Brad Childress. Not so much Taylor or Vikings QB. Vikings were within FG range and passing instead of running? I understand you play to win the game, but I just think that was bad. 51 passes. 18 rushes for Adrian?


Pretty solid analysis.. 2 of the biggest points you made that are spot on are, "Taylor SHOULD have caught the ball. Rule one in catching, if you can put your hands on it, you should catch it." And, "51 passes. 18 rushes".. Just don't call those plays with AP as your RB. It's not like the Vikings were playing from THAT much behind most of the game.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#139 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:58:13 PM(UTC)
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At least Formo appears to understand what I was getting at.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Zero, you don't lead a RB on any type of screen play in the box. The idea of it is to face poor pass blocking and let the rushers go past you, than have the ball dumped over the top. I don't know where you get you should lead him. Look at Taylors position, You wanted him to be lead to his outside shoulder? I'm sorry, but thats absurd. If Taylor was to be lead he surely wouldn't be facing the way he is in your snapshot. It is set up like any other screen play in the box run by every other team in the NFL. Lead on a middle screen? Huh?

If he takes off like that the defender you see in the picture would be all over him.


I read this and decided to watch the play a dozen or so times. I see the second blocker for the inside that indicates this was a dump off to the inside. Therefore the ball should not have been thrown to the outside as I originally said. When I watched it earlier, it appeared his blockers were blocking for an outside screen. Even with that said, the ball should have been thrown lower. And as I said earlier, the fault falls more on Taylor for the interception than Vikings QB. To say nothing was wrong with the pass is, in my opinion, inaccurate.


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Favre's location on the pass was fine, if anything he put to much zip on it for a short pass but these are NFL players that need to catch the ball.

You're right, these are NFL players and therefore should make a more accurate throw. :)


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I would come to defense on A-Rod on a play like this to. If you hit the WR in the hands and it bounces off and gets picked, you can't put that on ANY QB.

My bullshit-o-meter jus blew up. You spend time defending the Vikings, not the Packers. You'd only come to someone's defense if it was the uncommon perception. You like to be the little guy fighting the big fight. So it appears to me.


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The Vikes played well, head up with one of the best in the NFL and got screwed on a bogus tripping call that took points off the board and were victimized by fluke Defensive scores. I am not trying to convince you because you know, deep down inside, that this team is alot further along than GB is.


Fluke, bogus, and you think deep down inside I feel the Packers are farther than the Vikings? You need to read more before you make such heinous statements. I've stated more than once that the Vikings were the team to beat in our division and are a CONTENDER for the Super Bowl. Where have I said that about the Packers?
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Offline Formo  
#140 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:17:37 PM(UTC)
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To be honest, it looks like Z2C and DD80 are arguing the same point.. Damn it's confusing. lol
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Offline Gravedigga  
#141 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:19:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
If I am a Viking fan, I'm jacked about this loss. You went head to head with one, if not the best, team in the league and you had them beat. It took fluke plays and crap calls for the Steelers to win that game.

I am a registered official in Ohio and that was a garbage call. Just because you TRIP over someone in NO WAY means it is a trip. Dugan went low for a cut block and the guy tried to hurdle him and got his legs contacted with the legs of the blocker. Not intentional in ANY WAY. Terrible call. That type of thing could be called 10 times every game.

And the Favre screen pass? Are you guys really that bitter that you could pin that on Brett. A High Throw? Ummmmmm most screen passes of that distance are high because even though the guy is close you have to lob it over the Defense. He couldn't have put it in his belly, Taylor's has to use his hands. Who catches with there belly in the pros anyhow? Unbelievable.


enuff with all this common sense and facts. Give the masses what they want. Tell them Favre blew it and played horribly. Tell them the Vikings really would be 1-6 without all their luck.

Yea, thats it.
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UserPostedImage


A wise man once said
---------------------------------------------
You are weak, pathetic and immature..............I would have d
Offline Gravedigga  
#142 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:24:13 PM(UTC)
Gravedigga

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/16/2008(UTC)


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

UserPostedImage

You do NOT throw a 5 yard screen pass if a defender is between you and the potential receiver is facing you. The receiving player should be motioning away from you and the QB should lead the receiver down field or to open field.

In this case the ball should have been thrown outside to Taylors right arm and mid level, not high and there wasn't anyone around to throw it over. Vikings QB threw a bad pass, big deal. He's not perfect, get over it. Was the play his fault? Taylor SHOULD have caught the ball. Rule one in catching, if you can put your hands on it, you should catch it.

Watch the play by clicking HERE.

I'm not a registered official in any state or anything fancy, but I believe the cause of the Vikings losing the game is on Brad Childress. Not so much Taylor or Vikings QB. Vikings were within FG range and passing instead of running? I understand you play to win the game, but I just think that was bad. 51 passes. 18 rushes for Adrian?


Pretty solid analysis.. 2 of the biggest points you made that are spot on are, "Taylor SHOULD have caught the ball. Rule one in catching, if you can put your hands on it, you should catch it." And, "51 passes. 18 rushes".. Just don't call those plays with AP as your RB. It's not like the Vikings were playing from THAT much behind most of the game.


you guys act as if a pass that was 5 inches too high maybe is the end of the world. Get past it and get ready for your ass whoppin in 5 days on the unfozen tundra. I hope Favre brings a whole crew of people with "Thanks Ted" jerseys and i hope they old gray haired fool chokes after he gets fired on Monday.
--------------------------------------------
UserPostedImage


A wise man once said
---------------------------------------------
You are weak, pathetic and immature..............I would have d
Offline Zero2Cool  
#143 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:26:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
To be honest, it looks like Z2C and DD80 are arguing the same point.. Damn it's confusing. lol


When I read his post after mine ... it gave me a headache. I was thinking the same thing. So I watched the video over and over and over ...

The problem is, dd80 doesn't see my entire post. He grabs one segment and runs with it. It's like reading a chapter of a book and thinking you know the whole story.

dd80 is probably too busy to be bothered with reading my inferior posts in entirety.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#144 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:28:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
you guys act as if a pass that was 5 inches too high maybe is the end of the world. Get past it and get ready for your ass whoppin in 5 days on the unfozen tundra. I hope Favre brings a whole crew of people with "Thanks Ted" jerseys and i hope they old gray haired fool chokes after he gets fired on Monday.


Fail.

Quote:
I'm not a registered official in any state or anything fancy, but I believe the cause of the Vikings losing the game is on Brad Childress. Not so much Taylor or Vikings QB. Vikings were within FG range and passing instead of running? I understand you play to win the game, but I just think that was bad. 51 passes. 18 rushes for Adrian?
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Offline DGB454  
#145 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:57:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

UserPostedImage

You do NOT throw a 5 yard screen pass if a defender is between you and the potential receiver is facing you. The receiving player should be motioning away from you and the QB should lead the receiver down field or to open field.

In this case the ball should have been thrown outside to Taylors right arm and mid level, not high and there wasn't anyone around to throw it over. Vikings QB threw a bad pass, big deal. He's not perfect, get over it. Was the play his fault? Taylor SHOULD have caught the ball. Rule one in catching, if you can put your hands on it, you should catch it.

Watch the play by clicking HERE.

I'm not a registered official in any state or anything fancy, but I believe the cause of the Vikings losing the game is on Brad Childress. Not so much Taylor or Vikings QB. Vikings were within FG range and passing instead of running? I understand you play to win the game, but I just think that was bad. 51 passes. 18 rushes for Adrian?


Pretty solid analysis.. 2 of the biggest points you made that are spot on are, "Taylor SHOULD have caught the ball. Rule one in catching, if you can put your hands on it, you should catch it." And, "51 passes. 18 rushes".. Just don't call those plays with AP as your RB. It's not like the Vikings were playing from THAT much behind most of the game.


you guys act as if a pass that was 5 inches too high maybe is the end of the world. Get past it and get ready for your ass whoppin in 5 days on the unfozen tundra. I hope Favre brings a whole crew of people with "Thanks Ted" jerseys and i hope they old gray haired fool chokes after he gets fired on Monday.


This hero worship thing some of you guys have is just embarrassing. I like Brett (His play. Not so much his personality.) but he now plays for the opponent. I don't see why that's so hard to get past and move on.
If you can't get passed it then what happens after Brett finally does retire? No more football ? Move on to another hero?

I guess I just don't understand.
Offline Pack93z  
#146 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:14:41 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

I am a registered official in Ohio and that was a garbage call. Just because you TRIP over someone in NO WAY means it is a trip. Dugan went low for a cut block and the guy tried to hurdle him and got his legs contacted with the legs of the blocker. Not intentional in ANY WAY. Terrible call. That type of thing could be called 10 times every game.


Whole heartily disagree, he clearly swung his legs out and used the entire length of his body in an attempt to make a block, in which he caught him with a whipping leg.. that is a penalty every day of the week. You can not use your legs to take out another persons legs..

Mark 35th second, his legs were what make contact, which is illegal. Penalty valid.. been that way since I was taught the game and played the game. And a leg whip is a 15 yard penalty, so the Vikes actually caught a break. IMO.

Was it his intent, no I think it was an attempt at a cut block, a poor out of position one.. but an possible attempt. Guilty no less.

[youtube]AqO53PSteaE[/youtube]
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Formo  
#147 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:26:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

I am a registered official in Ohio and that was a garbage call. Just because you TRIP over someone in NO WAY means it is a trip. Dugan went low for a cut block and the guy tried to hurdle him and got his legs contacted with the legs of the blocker. Not intentional in ANY WAY. Terrible call. That type of thing could be called 10 times every game.


Whole heartily disagree, he clearly swung his legs out and used the entire length of his body in an attempt to make a block, in which he caught him with a whipping leg.. that is a penalty every day of the week. You can not use your legs to take out another persons legs..

Mark 35th second, his legs were what make contact, which is illegal. Penalty valid.. been that way since I was taught the game and played the game. And a leg whip is a 15 yard penalty, so the Vikes actually caught a break. IMO.

Was it his intent, no I think it was an attempt at a cut block, a poor out of position one.. but an possible attempt. Guilty no less.

[youtube]AqO53PSteaE[/youtube]


Looks to me, 93z, that Dugan's backside/lower back made contact while the defender tried to avoid the contact and ended up diving over Dugan's backside/legs.

I also heard that it's called a 'rolling block' that's taught in training camp. But, I don't know how accurate that is.

I know you are big on the O-Line/trench stuff, but still doesn't look to be the right call. It looks like a tripping type block in normal speed from certain angles. In other angles, looks bad. I can see how it was called, even though my opinion thinks it's a bad one.
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Offline porky88  
#148 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2009 1:09:30 AM(UTC)
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Couple of things

I'm not sure the Vikings are vastly superior to the Packers. Not how it's being made out by some people. I think the Vikings are better in a lot of areas. DE, LG, RB and DT to name a few, but they have a lot of holes as well. They're a team that relies on their elite talent to makeup for their lack of talent at some positions.

The Packers on the other hand don't have as many elite players, but they have a lot of solid or average football players. Both philosophies have worked in this league. I also think Childress is a terrible head coach. 51 passes by Favre is just ridiculous. The game was close all along and he's calling that many throws? Even if Minnesota wins the division and gets a bye in the playoffs, Childress might be the downfall of this team. I'd be real concerned about that and watch it not only against the Pack, but going forward too. For what it's worth, Childress called a great game against the Packers the first time around. Mixed it up real nice.

As for the penalty, I thought it was a garbage call. I don't think the refs make that call through all four quarters, but they did there. That obviously stands out, but so did the kick return.

Anyone else think the hit on the ref on the kick return by Harvin was a cheap shot and and purposely done?

I believe so. There is no way that player has to do that to the ref. He was looking for him. I think that player (Jeff Dugan I believe) should be suspended.
Offline Formo  
#149 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2009 1:25:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


Anyone else think the hit on the ref on the kick return by Harvin was a cheap shot and and purposely done?

I believe so. There is no way that player has to do that to the ref. He was looking for him. I think that player (Jeff Dugan I believe) should be suspended.


I agree. lol
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Offline Cheesey  
#150 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:07:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

UserPostedImage

You do NOT throw a 5 yard screen pass if a defender is between you and the potential receiver is facing you. The receiving player should be motioning away from you and the QB should lead the receiver down field or to open field.

In this case the ball should have been thrown outside to Taylors right arm and mid level, not high and there wasn't anyone around to throw it over. Vikings QB threw a bad pass, big deal. He's not perfect, get over it. Was the play his fault? Taylor SHOULD have caught the ball. Rule one in catching, if you can put your hands on it, you should catch it.

Watch the play by clicking HERE.

I'm not a registered official in any state or anything fancy, but I believe the cause of the Vikings losing the game is on Brad Childress. Not so much Taylor or Vikings QB. Vikings were within FG range and passing instead of running? I understand you play to win the game, but I just think that was bad. 51 passes. 18 rushes for Adrian?


Pretty solid analysis.. 2 of the biggest points you made that are spot on are, "Taylor SHOULD have caught the ball. Rule one in catching, if you can put your hands on it, you should catch it." And, "51 passes. 18 rushes".. Just don't call those plays with AP as your RB. It's not like the Vikings were playing from THAT much behind most of the game.

i hope they old gray haired fool chokes after he gets fired on Monday.

Favre is getting fired on Monday????
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