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Offline all_about_da_packers  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 6:07:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
AADP - It is not wrong and not stupid.

History shows us that the prevent D again and again fails. When teams get conservative, they lose.



I'm not arguing against that at all. My point is that based on the entire game, given that Ben had abused our DBs the entire game, be it in man, zone, what have you.... well Dom is really limited with his options. Add to that the QB is a dude built like a truck, very difficult to bring down and capable of breaking tackles... well there is a reason Capers went Prevent.

To not even raise the possible reasons Capers employed the packages he did on the last drive, and just outright blame him for even attempting to run Prevent is ridiculous.

Yes, in hindsight Prevent was a mistake. Even then, it was so because of a missed assignment, not the scheme itself.

Heck, you have Mike Tomlin come out after the game and say that the 3 deep safety package Dom called is very tough to score on, and admit that any other place the ball was thrown would've meant a loss.... well I think that shows the problem of blaming Capers ... his play calling wasn't the problem. Players were in position to make plays. That they didn't should reflect poorly on execution.


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
We have a problem - our #1 CB is out for the season. Remember the Giants of '07? They had a very average secondary. They won the SB by beating the best O ever with a pass rush to compensate for their very average secondary.


Taking nothing away from their pass rush, but you have to acknowledge the play of CB Corey Webster and Safety Gibril Wilson. Those two guys stepped it up huge, and were a key part of the Giants success.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 6:30:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
AADP - It is not wrong and not stupid.

History shows us that the prevent D again and again fails. When teams get conservative, they lose.



I'm not arguing against that at all. My point is that based on the entire game, given that Ben had abused our DBs the entire game, be it in man, zone, what have you.... well Dom is really limited with his options. Add to that the QB is a dude built like a truck, very difficult to bring down and capable of breaking tackles... well there is a reason Capers went Prevent.

To not even raise the possible reasons Capers employed the packages he did on the last drive, and just outright blame him for even attempting to run Prevent is ridiculous.

Yes, in hindsight Prevent was a mistake. Even then, it was so because of a missed assignment, not the scheme itself.

Heck, you have Mike Tomlin come out after the game and say that the 3 deep safety package Dom called is very tough to score on, and admit that any other place the ball was thrown would've meant a loss.... well I think that shows the problem of blaming Capers ... his play calling wasn't the problem. Players were in position to make plays. That they didn't should reflect poorly on execution.


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
We have a problem - our #1 CB is out for the season. Remember the Giants of '07? They had a very average secondary. They won the SB by beating the best O ever with a pass rush to compensate for their very average secondary.


Taking nothing away from their pass rush, but you have to acknowledge the play of CB Corey Webster and Safety Gibril Wilson. Those two guys stepped it up huge, and were a key part of the Giants success.


AADP - The Giants secondary was average at best. Favre proved that in '07. They couldn't do anything against Favre. So Coughlin (or whomever made the adjustments) adjusted accordingly. During the SB, he ran so many blitz fakes and timed blitzes that the Pats OL was confused and Brady spent a lot of time on his ass.

Of course Mike Tomlin is going to say that. If your opponent is being stupid, you don't tell him he's being stupid. You let him believe he's being smart and continue to exploit his idiocy. If someone throws a grenade at you without pulling the pin, you don't hand him back his grenade, explain to him that he has to pull the pin out first, then let him throw it again.

And yes, it was a mistake. It's been a mistake this whole year and all of last year. Look, EVERYONE makes mistakes. The difference between intelligence and stupidity is intelligence, you learn from your mistakes. Stupidity, you keep making the same mistakes.
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Offline dyeah_gb  
#33 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:14:51 PM(UTC)
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+1 for the great pictures and commentary. That play was a kick in the nuts. As a matter of fact hat whole last drive by the Steeleres makes me sick. Over the span of a decade the Packers have proven notorious at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Pack - Eagles NFC Championship
Pack - Giants NFC Championship

I just want them to win one of the next two and get this young team some playoff experience
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#34 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:26:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
AADP - It is not wrong and not stupid.

History shows us that the prevent D again and again fails. When teams get conservative, they lose.



I'm not arguing against that at all. My point is that based on the entire game, given that Ben had abused our DBs the entire game, be it in man, zone, what have you.... well Dom is really limited with his options. Add to that the QB is a dude built like a truck, very difficult to bring down and capable of breaking tackles... well there is a reason Capers went Prevent.

To not even raise the possible reasons Capers employed the packages he did on the last drive, and just outright blame him for even attempting to run Prevent is ridiculous.

Yes, in hindsight Prevent was a mistake. Even then, it was so because of a missed assignment, not the scheme itself.

Heck, you have Mike Tomlin come out after the game and say that the 3 deep safety package Dom called is very tough to score on, and admit that any other place the ball was thrown would've meant a loss.... well I think that shows the problem of blaming Capers ... his play calling wasn't the problem. Players were in position to make plays. That they didn't should reflect poorly on execution.


Doesn't that ring true for every play. If a run fails, it is because it was not executed correct, if a pass play fails same, and if a defense doesn't work it is because of execution. No coach draws up a play offensively or defensively as a failure. It is always execution.

But when our DBs have had a hard time, you don't give the QB more time by not rushing, you get after him. We sacked Ben 5 times in the game. That means we could get him, but in not 1 of those sacks were we rushing 3. Our defense has not been one that gets pressure by rushing even a base package. It gets pressure from being unpredictable, and on that drive, were were anything but that.
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Offline gopackers08  
#35 Posted : Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:47:09 PM(UTC)
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First of all +1 for Rock. This is amazing analysis. The only issue I have with it is all the pictures made me throw up in my mouth again. I had to watch this game with a couple of Steelers fans and this last drive was pure unpleasantness to sit through.

Bottom line is why in the world are we playing prevent defense with 3 seconds left??? Dont play a zone scheme when all you have to cover is the end zone. Play man to man and safeties should be UP in coverage.

This game really eats me up because until now this was a game we lost every time LAST YEAR and a game that we won every time THIS YEAR. I just hope there is absolutely no hangover on the packers from this heartbreaker.

That being said the offense played really well and I hope to see more of that today! GO PACK GO!!!
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Offline JerseyAl  
#36 Posted : Sunday, January 17, 2010 2:20:34 PM(UTC)
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If I can add one thing. In addition to what was pointed out in this post, one other factor needs to be mentioned. When Bell plants his feet to dive for the ball, they slip out from under him. Thus he doesn't get the extension he might have and comes up short in getting a hand on the ball. Watch his feet on the replay, and in the closeup picture above, you can see some turf being kicked up. I think without this slip, he gets a hand on the ball. Not that any of this matters, but just wanted to mention it...
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Offline Rockmolder  
#37 Posted : Sunday, January 17, 2010 3:19:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
If I can add one thing. In addition to what was pointed out in this post, one other factor needs to be mentioned. When Bell plants his feet to dive for the ball, they slip out from under him. Thus he doesn't get the extension he might have and comes up short in getting a hand on the ball. Watch his feet on the replay, and in the closeup picture above, you can see some turf being kicked up. I think without this slip, he gets a hand on the ball. Not that any of this matters, but just wanted to mention it...


Nice. Didn't even notice that. Under the circumstances, Bell played that one perfectly, if you ask me. It might not've been his original assignment, but with no safety help anywhere close to him, this was all that he could do.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#38 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:21:23 PM(UTC)
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I think it was a good play.

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