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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#16 Posted : Thursday, August 5, 2010 3:20:22 AM(UTC)

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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers, for he today that sheds blood (theirs, not ours) with me, Shall be my brother.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#17 Posted : Thursday, August 5, 2010 11:50:10 AM(UTC)

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I don't care about the importance of the stats.
I don't care about the validity of the stats.
I don't care what anyone thinks about stats in relationship to greatness.


What I'm asking is ... will Peyton be able to catch Brett record wise? I think he can, but I don't think he will.

Some of you have ADD worse than me, dayum!!
Offline Wade  
#18 Posted : Thursday, August 5, 2010 1:39:35 PM(UTC)

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To answer your question, Kevin...

Yes, I think Peyton will catch Favre record-wise.

Favre might keep the consecutive game record, but I'm skeptical of that, too, unless Manning (i) gets hurt before Favre retires, or (ii) somehow ends up his career with another team because Indy has a brain fart and doesn't pay him between now and next year.

Why do I think Manning will break the game streak? Because he just doesn't get hit as much as most quarterbacks. Part of the reason Favre hasn't been injured is that his footwork as a QB tends to suck (by pro standards). Manning is textbook in his form, but he still rarely gets hit -- partly because he's got a damn good line in front of him, partly because he's so smart in finding receivers/getting rid of the ball fast.
Offline zombieslayer  
#19 Posted : Thursday, August 5, 2010 2:25:19 PM(UTC)

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Dexter & NSD - I'm actually on your side on this one. Different eras are entirely different. Another thing people forget is the blocking schemes. Pass protect is much, much better than Bart Starr's and Joe Namath's days. Makes a huge difference. Heck, it's even much better today than it was 10 years ago.

Zero - Depends. If Favre keeps playing, Manning will eventually take an injury that's too severe to continue. I'm of course not hoping for anyone to get hurt. I'm just saying the percentages. It's a freak occurrence that Favre has played this long. Don't know if it will happen again any time soon.

CDN has a good point. Do you really think the Colts can be good this long? What happens when the OL starts to taper off? Football is still a team game.
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#20 Posted : Thursday, August 5, 2010 5:57:19 PM(UTC)

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I can't be arsed to sift through all the archives at the moment, but several months ago I did an analysis of every record Favre holds and exactly how long it would take Manning (assuming career averages, of course) to beat them. At that time, Manning had the potential to start breaking some records in as few as three years, though he would have required four to five for most. Favre's subsequent return obviously puts a wrench into that analysis and will extends the timeline a bit.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#21 Posted : Friday, August 6, 2010 2:51:44 AM(UTC)

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Manning has a chance to beat them. He is not taking the pounding and will not be as beat up. I doubt the consecutive record will fall but all the rest, sure. The point that 14 active players are ranked ahead of Favre tells me since he is the oldest one of the bunch and they all are out perfoming him, if they hang around long enough every record will fall. Except maybe the int record. Although Cutler is on pace to match every one of Favres records. Sacks, Ints and Fumbles.

Rodgers is already breaking Favres single game and single season marks.
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#22 Posted : Friday, August 6, 2010 3:55:26 AM(UTC)

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Favre's single-season and single-game records were never exactly stellar anyway.

For example, as far as I know, he has only thrown for 400 yards once in his career (December 5, 1993), a game in which the Packers were trounced by the Bears 30-17. In fairness, he did once throw for 399 yards on December 22, 2003, a game in which the Packers destroyed the Raiders 41-7. Contrast those numbers to, say, Dan Marino, who had 15 such games in his career (which was, by the way, much shorter than Favre's), or Peyton Manning, who has had 9, or Joe Montana, who had 7.

Other than his consecutive-starts record, I think Favre's most impressive record may be consecutive seasons with 3000 or more passing yards. Peyton Manning has set the standard, though, by passing for 4000 or more yards almost every season of his career.

Clip somewhat related:

[mp3 width=400 height=20]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/images/01/25/FavreINT.mp3[/mp3]
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#23 Posted : Friday, August 6, 2010 4:14:13 AM(UTC)

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By the way, Aaron Rodgers' passer rating (121.3) for his 422-yard performance against the Arizona Cardinals on January 10, 2010, was the third-highest for a 400-yard game in NFL history, behind only Peyton Manning's 145.7 rating on January 9, 2005 (458 yards) and Dan Marino's 135.4 rating on January 6, 1985 (421 yards).

Here's an interesting statistical anomaly that may only appeal to a dorky mind like mine: All of the 14 highest-rated 400-yard performances were played between December 29 and January 30 of the season in which they occurred. I would be curious to see an explanation of this phenomenon.
Offline RedSoxExcel  
#24 Posted : Friday, August 6, 2010 5:29:11 PM(UTC)

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
By the way, Aaron Rodgers' passer rating (121.3) for his 422-yard performance against the Arizona Cardinals on January 10, 2010, was the third-highest for a 400-yard game in NFL history, behind only Peyton Manning's 145.7 rating on January 9, 2005 (458 yards) and Dan Marino's 135.4 rating on January 6, 1985 (421 yards).

Here's an interesting statistical anomaly that may only appeal to a dorky mind like mine: All of the 14 highest-rated 400-yard performances were played between December 29 and January 30 of the season in which they occurred. I would be curious to see an explanation of this phenomenon.


You call me a Favre lover but I don't think the stats QBs put up these days are real. Favre had a 107.2 QB rating at 40?! Is he THAT much better than he was in 1995-1997 or has the system changed? I made a thread in the NFL section about this but I think everyone needs to take the QB stats these days with a grain of salt given the QB friendly league.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#25 Posted : Friday, August 6, 2010 5:51:55 PM(UTC)

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The league favors the rules towards better passing.
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#26 Posted : Friday, August 6, 2010 6:46:38 PM(UTC)

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The rating system has not changed recently, RedSoxExcel. Though my above post did contain a glaring error: The 14 games I mentioned were not the highest-rated 400-yard games but in fact the 14 postseason 400-yard games in NFL history. That explains the odd clustering of the dates. ;)

Those games, by the way, span the years 1968 through 2010. So it's not like 400-yard games are a recent phenomenon.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#27 Posted : Saturday, August 7, 2010 3:52:01 AM(UTC)

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Favre did play better than he has his entire career. He took care of the ball more than any other year. That makes a huge difference in rating.

In the '96 super bowl, he had a pretty blah game. 14 of 27 for 246 yards and 51.9 completion percent. Free and Rison had 75 yards in YAC so he really only threw the ball for 176 yards.

He didn't turn the ball over once and ended up with a 107.9 rating. So the fact his career average is only in the mid 80s is a testament to how often he turned it over.
Offline DGB454  
#28 Posted : Saturday, August 7, 2010 12:46:20 PM(UTC)

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If an 18 game season becomes a reality then I think Manning has a much better chance at breaking every meaningful record Favre holds.
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#29 Posted : Saturday, August 7, 2010 6:18:28 PM(UTC)

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If the NFL moves to 18 games, it needs to start publicising its records as rates (per-season, projected out) instead of merely trumpeting the raw numbers. Otherwise the records will cease to have any true relevance. Major League Baseball had the sense to do this when they pointed out that yes, Babe Ruth's homerun record had been broken, but he'd still managed the feat in fewer games than anyone else. Likewise, Manning and Favre's career-accumulation records pale in comparison to Marino's, since he set his in fewer seasons.
Offline RedSoxExcel  
#30 Posted : Monday, August 9, 2010 4:49:42 PM(UTC)

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Yes, the rating system has not changed but the numbers being inputted into that rating system have changed significantly. In the other thread, someone pointed out that 13 of the 15 all time passer rating leaders are active players. Are the QBs today that much better than all of the other QBs in NFL history? I doubt it.

In 1996, Favre had 39 TDs, 13 INTs, 3900 yards and a 95.8 rating.

In 2009, Favre has a 107.2 rating. Even if everyone accepts that Favre was better in 2009 than 1996, is he really 11+ rating points better than he was in 1996??? He would be ranked the 10th best QB according to QB rating in 2009 with the 1996 numbers.

In 1997, in a league that had Marino, Young, Elway, Aikman, Favre, Moon, etc. Favre was 2nd in the league with 3,800 yards. In 2009, 1997 Favre would be 11th (just barely in front of Kyle Orten). Thats nuts.

There is clearly something going on with QBs ratings, yards, etc.
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