Zero2Cool
13 years ago
excessive force?

(CNN) -- A graphic video played at a hearing Monday  to determine whether two California police officers should stand trial in the beating death of a homeless man showed them kicking and punching the mentally ill man as he lay on the ground -- screaming in pain and begging for help.

The victim, Kelly Thomas, died five days after the beating on July 5.

Manuel Ramos, a 10-year veteran of the Fullerton, California, police department, is charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, while Cpl. Jay Patrick Cicinelli faces charges of involuntary manslaughter and felony use of excessive force in the same case.

Both have pleaded not guilty.

The black-and-white video was played during a preliminary hearing for the two officers.

It begins with Thomas -- a 37-year-old homeless man with schizophrenia -- sitting and being told by Ramos to put his feet out and hands on his knees.

The officers were responding to a call about a homeless man looking into car windows and pulling on handles of parked cars.

In the video, Thomas is slow to cooperate.

Ramos then tells him: "You see my fists? They're getting ready to f--- you up."

Thomas, who is unarmed and shirtless, stands and another officer walks over. They hit him with their batons and hold him on the ground as he begs for help.

"Ok, I'm sorry, dude. I'm sorry!" he screams. At one point, Thomas says he can't breathe. The officers tell him to lie on his stomach, put his hands behind his back and relax.

"Ok, here, here, dude, please!" he says.

Other officers arrive.

At times, trees block the view of the camera and it's not always clear who is doing what as officers pile on top of Thomas.

One uses a Taser stun gun.

Thomas cries out for help and. toward the end of the beating, for his father: "Dad! Help me. Help me. Help me, dad."

His voice gets softer and trails off.

By the end of the video, he is lying in a pool of blood as the officers wonder out loud what to do next.
One can be heard saying: "We ran out of options so I got to the end of my Taser and I ... smashed his face to hell."

Thomas suffered brain injuries, facial fractures, rib fractures, and extensive bruising and abrasions, according to prosecutors.

The Orange County coroner listed his manner of death as a homicide and said he died after having his chest compressed, leaving him unable to breathe.

The FBI is investigating possible civil rights violations in his case.

Six Fullerton officers, including Ramos and Cicinelli, were put on paid leave after his death. The case drew widespread attention to the police department of Fullerton, located about 25 miles southeast of downtown Los Angeles.


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gbguy20
13 years ago
Watched the video. Dude was fighting the cops literally the entire time. The text play by play describing the video is entirely misleading. Sure he was begging for help and claiming he couldn't breathe. But instead of laying on his stomach like he was asked at the time he continued to fight them.

I don't see the big deal in this case.
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Zero2Cool
13 years ago

Watched the video. Dude was fighting the cops literally the entire time. The text play by play describing the video is entirely misleading. Sure he was begging for help and claiming he couldn't breathe. But instead of laying on his stomach like he was asked at the time he continued to fight them.

I don't see the big deal in this case.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20 



Thanks, I didn't watch the video yet. I can't say I'm surprised the media twisted this into something it's not.
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Since69
13 years ago
Rodney King all over again. Another case of the media telling the public who to hate. I'm sorry the guy died, but what are cops supposed to do, let everyone who resists get up and walk away?
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DakotaT
13 years ago
Wait a minute, they don't train donut eaters to handcuff people without beating the shit out of and tasering them excessively? Sadistic people should never be allowed to be policeman - and that character trait should be tested for annually along with their physical aptitude test. Those cops look like they'd fail both tests.
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Zero2Cool
13 years ago

Rodney King all over again. Another case of the media telling the public who to hate. I'm sorry the guy died, but what are cops supposed to do, let everyone who resists get up and walk away?

Originally Posted by: Since69 



They are trained to subdue and handcuff such a person. That's what should be done or at least attempted. The thing that bothers me about this is the cop saying do you see these fists, they are about to fuck you up. That there shows intent on beating the man, rather than subduing him. And I feel that's wrong.
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gbguy20
13 years ago

They are trained to subdue and handcuff such a person. That's what should be done or at least attempted. The thing that bothers me about this is the cop saying do you see these fists, they are about to fuck you up. That there shows intent on beating the man, rather than subduing him. And I feel that's wrong.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



When it comes down to it, sometimes you need to warn someone what is going to happen to them if they don't start listening to you. He knew what was coming, and he still fought.

One of the main things this video shows, is cops need to be more aware of how much pressure they are putting on someone with their knee, and how long they kneel on them after they finally get them turned over and cuffed.
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dhazer
13 years ago
It was a racial act I think we need to go after all the mexicans in California, ok but seriously after watching the video I wonder about these cops. They are tasering and as he is shaking from it they are yelling at him to turn over. From the videos i seen that leaves you so you can't move but yet they want him to roll over.

but I also watched a video with his dad talking and he should be slapped in the head, claiming oh we miss him so much but yet couldn't give him a roof over his head.


Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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Cheesey
13 years ago
Am i missing something?
I didn't see anything really horrible.
If you fight the cops, bad things will probably happen to you. To me, the video wasn't very clear on what really was going on. Maybe a better complete version would show more of what was going on.
I remember watching the Rodney King one. They tazered him several times, and he was so high he didn't even react to it. And he never did what the cops told him to do. And all that was after he lead cops on a high speed chase.
But once again, public outcry went after the cops.
I can't blame people for not wanting to become cops anymore. Everything they do is under constant criticism, and many times taken out of context.

I hope it's a fair trial, with all the details coming out, Then if the cops did do something wrong, then find them guilty.
Of course they have been found "guilty" already based just on the little that's really known about what went on.
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dhazer
13 years ago

Am i missing something?
I didn't see anything really horrible.
If you fight the cops, bad things will probably happen to you. To me, the video wasn't very clear on what really was going on. Maybe a better complete version would show more of what was going on.
I remember watching the Rodney King one. They tazered him several times, and he was so high he didn't even react to it. And he never did what the cops told him to do. And all that was after he lead cops on a high speed chase.
But once again, public outcry went after the cops.
I can't blame people for not wanting to become cops anymore. Everything they do is under constant criticism, and many times taken out of context.

I hope it's a fair trial, with all the details coming out, Then if the cops did do something wrong, then find them guilty.
Of course they have been found "guilty" already based just on the little that's really known about what went on.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



Cheesey the facts are facts the cops killed the guy, the autopsy tells us that, and the cops had no reason to use such brutal force for an unarmed guy.


Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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