Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago

I wonder how much, if any reason to keep Sherman on board was for Ted to more thoroughly evaluate other potential coaches?

"beast" wrote:



I've always thought that even though Ted was given full power as GM, he was hired with the understanding that he would try to work with Sherman for at least a year. I thought it was a bad match right from the beginning, and Harlan should've fired Sherman outright.

But you make an interesting point. Keeping Sherman around for a year did give Ted time conduct a more deliberate coaching search after the season.

"Greg C." wrote:



Yeah I've wondered that my self... also I'm not sure but it seemed like a lot more coaches were out there the year we hired Mike McCarthy than the year before. But it also did give Thompson another year to look... and Harlan probably did want to keep Sherman.

And from what I've heard Thompson was willing to work with Sherman but Sherman wasn't happy he lost his GM job and couldn't get past that to give Thompson a fair chance... and when GMs and coaches can't get along usually the GM wins it seem...


Another thing, I hope McCarthy develops more of a "killer instinct" because it starts with him as far as the team is concerned.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



This is a great point. The team does struggle to finish opponents off.

Here is something interesting to ponder for people.

I think most people argue the four elite NFC teams going into the season are Green Bay, Minnesota, Dallas, and New Orleans.

I'm not so sure that Mike McCarthy isn't the second best head coach out of that group. Worth pointing out.

"porky88" wrote:




I agree that's has been something I haven't liked about Mike McCarthy... when the Packers have a close lead late he seems to play not to lose... and trying to take time off the clock more so than to keep putting points up on the board.

"PackerTraxx" wrote:



If you can remember back to '96, Holmgren reigned in Favre to keep him from losing the Super Bowl. ST got us field position and after the Patriots swung momentum in the 3rd quarter, ST scored to put the game back to 2 scores and the D took over the game, led by Reggie and back to back sacks. Favre and the Offense didn't score the entire second half. They played a field position and don't make a costly mistake game.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Greg C.
13 years ago

Its funny to see so many people comment that he isn't aggressive enough, because to me, comparing him to Sherman, the thing i notice most is that the guy has some balls. Sure, he's not the gutsiest guy in the league, but he's far far from the most conservative either. What you guys are saying about "playing not to lose" 95% of coaches in the NFL do the same.

"earthquake" wrote:



That's where I'm at with it too. I've been frustrated at times by lack of aggressiveness when leading late, but then I watch other teams and I see the same thing. And overall I think McCarthy is pretty aggressive, probably more than most coaches.
blank
Dulak
13 years ago

Mike McCarthy is not going anywhere and it would be a mistake to even consider a move.

McCarthy is the mastermind behind one of the very best offenses in the NFL. McCarthy also knows Rodgers better than he knows himself with no dropoff after the loss of a HOF QB. A new HC means a new offense. That's how it works. Anybody want to see that? I know I don't.

If it would mean a change on D I wouldn't want to see that either. They just installed this one.

I can see no good coming out of a coaching change and to do so because we don't win two playoff games or whatever, well, a change would probably reduce the following years chances to do better.

As far as previous coaches and the time they were given, well, to be honest they were lousy coaches. Sherman had everything he needed to win at least two SB's in the early 2000's and couldn't do it and the others never showed they had the team going in the right direction.

Lastly, we have a team here now with the kind of talent on the final 45 that is at the least very close to the level our SB teams. That, in no small way, has to do with the relationship between McCarthy and Thompson who work together and listen to each other. You make HC and GM changes when the teams going the wrong way and unless I'm way off that's the opposite direction I see this team headed.

"warhawk" wrote:



nice post warhawk

we have IMO the best group of receivers in the NFL - I wouldnt really want to have to see them learn all new plays.
go.pack.go.
13 years ago
I think firing McCarthy would be the worst decision that you could possibly make. By doing that, you get rid of all the chemistry that this team had. McCarthy knows everything about this offense, and everyone on the team is behind him.

If you fire him, it will take a good 2-3 years to get fully used to a new offense.

We have one of the best offenses in the NFL. I don't know about you all, but I don't want to get rid of that. If we fired him, that's what we would be doing.
UserPostedImage
RaiderPride
13 years ago
There have been some brilliant posts here on this thread (As Usual) on Packers Home.

Kevin has built a site that has attracted great football minds, and not random idiots. I think this was, and is his part of the original Packers Home mission statement. This is why I learn so much here.

I learn more here than I do on ESPN or CBS Sports line... That is a fact, and it is an education from great football minds that are not professional writers or even former players, but loyal, educated, football fans who understand the game with unparalleled knowledge.

Educate Me.

My thoughts are this... A team only has a window for so long. Ted... with his draft and MIke with his brilliant development of Arron has given this team the window. The window was opened last year 2009.

My prediction was the Packers win it all in 2009.

I was wrong. I take full ownership of that fact.

But I think they could have won it last year, and this year. That would have been two in a row.

FACT IS THERE ARE SOME HEAD COACHES, MANY IN FACT, THAT JUST NOT CAN PUT THE FINAL PIECES TOGERTHER.

They are great coaches... Brilliant builders and developers, but just can not put it all together after the 16th game of the season.

Is this Mike? I do not know? I hope not.

But.... And this is a big but..

A team does not have to change the whole Offense and scheme to move on from a coach that could not close the deal.

There are plenty of Coaches out there in Free Agency that could tweak this team to a championship in 2011 if Mike does not win a Superbowl.

I am not saying Mike is one of them, but there are many coaches It will never happen for them. It might be that they are too timid, to much of a players coach, too much of a corporate follower, or what ever.

The difference between great and good is "ABOUTTHISMUCH" three small little spaces.

With this team, With this QB. Anything less then a Super Bowl Appearance will be solid grounds for a career adjustment.

Mike... We love you, we want you as our Assistant Head Coach and OC. But we think Gruden might be able to take us to the next level with a minor tweak and addition to your incredible talents.
""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
bozz_2006
13 years ago
I get where you're headed RP, and I think on one level you're right. There are coaches that just can't get you there. When I picture that guy, I see Marty Schottenheimer. Head coach for a LOT of years and on some very good teams, but never quite could quite break out. I don't think Mike is that kinda guy. He's too tough for that. I think he is very much in a parallel position to the team he has fielded for the last few years. Young talent, flashes of brilliance. Young head coach, flashes of brilliance. The team isn't a bunch of polished vets. So when they falter, they tend to falter big-time (think 50 sacks, Tampa Bay loss). But when they're firing on all cylinders, they're basically unstoppable. With more time together, and more experience in pressure situations, I think McCarthy can maximize the damage this team inflicts while we're "on", and minimize self-destruction mode when they're "off". These things don't just happen. It takes time, and it takes experience. This team grew a LOT last season, and I think our young head coach did too. This seriously could be the year that they put it all together and bring the Lombardi trophy back home.
UserPostedImage
Rockmolder
13 years ago
I've wondered quite a few times whether Mike wouldn't have made for a better OC, rather than a HC.

Thing is, I don't think we're ever going to find out what his full potential will be. He's like that wacky scientist. He never really looks like a highly intelligent man to me, he's always playing dumb, but those flashes of brilliance you see in games are absolutely priceless.

He and Chilly are actually quite alike, if you ask me.

Brilliant football minds, act dumber than they are and we just have to see how both work with the players and if they can ever get over that hump.

That's a whole lot of nothing in quite a post, btw.
warhawk
13 years ago

There have been some brilliant posts here on this thread (As Usual) on Packers Home.

Kevin has built a site that has attracted great football minds, and not random idiots. I think this was, and is his part of the original Packers Home mission statement. This is why I learn so much here.

I learn more here than I do on ESPN or CBS Sports line... That is a fact, and it is an education from great football minds that are not professional writers or even former players, but loyal, educated, football fans who understand the game with unparalleled knowledge.

Educate Me.

My thoughts are this... A team only has a window for so long. Ted... with his draft and MIke with his brilliant development of Arron has given this team the window. The window was opened last year 2009.

My prediction was the Packers win it all in 2009.

I was wrong. I take full ownership of that fact.

But I think they could have won it last year, and this year. That would have been two in a row.

FACT IS THERE ARE SOME HEAD COACHES, MANY IN FACT, THAT JUST NOT CAN PUT THE FINAL PIECES TOGERTHER.

They are great coaches... Brilliant builders and developers, but just can not put it all together after the 16th game of the season.

Is this Mike? I do not know? I hope not.

But.... And this is a big but..

A team does not have to change the whole Offense and scheme to move on from a coach that could not close the deal.

There are plenty of Coaches out there in Free Agency that could tweak this team to a championship in 2011 if Mike does not win a Superbowl.

I am not saying Mike is one of them, but there are many coaches It will never happen for them. It might be that they are too timid, to much of a players coach, too much of a corporate follower, or what ever.

The difference between great and good is "ABOUTTHISMUCH" three small little spaces.

With this team, With this QB. Anything less then a Super Bowl Appearance will be solid grounds for a career adjustment.

Mike... We love you, we want you as our Assistant Head Coach and OC. But we think Gruden might be able to take us to the next level with a minor tweak and addition to your incredible talents.

"RaiderPride" wrote:



RP, I think looking for a SB win with the team in the first year of the 3-4 may reflect higher expectations than what is reasonable. We all have high expectations for this team. Why? Because it's a good football team.

If you look at the teams that went deep, however, you find pretty solid defensive teams that did not just reset their schemes. I see an advantage there for the Vikings and Boys and Jets and Colts in '09. When it got down to the money games and the playoffs I felt we were not quite where we needed to be defensively.

I was happy with the progess the defense made. It needs to be better this year and more consistant but I actually look at THIS year as the year the defense can step up more consistantly and at least hold down high scoring teams to something below what our offense can put on the board.

As far as Gruden I would take McCarthy over him. He did win one but really other than that he never did much. Forget McCarthy being an OC uder Gruden. With the turn over in HC's if they brought Gruden in on a Saturday Mike McCarthy would have a HC job by Monday.

So where you had 2009 as the year I was pinpointing '10 as the season we should go very deep. If the injury list stay moderate we can play with anybody and last years one-and done- will prove valuable as we go into that stretch. Every player on the team knows they should have never lost that game.
"The train is leaving the station."
PackerTraxx
13 years ago

I wonder how much, if any reason to keep Sherman on board was for Ted to more thoroughly evaluate other potential coaches?

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



I've always thought that even though Ted was given full power as GM, he was hired with the understanding that he would try to work with Sherman for at least a year. I thought it was a bad match right from the beginning, and Harlan should've fired Sherman outright.

But you make an interesting point. Keeping Sherman around for a year did give Ted time conduct a more deliberate coaching search after the season.

"beast" wrote:



Yeah I've wondered that my self... also I'm not sure but it seemed like a lot more coaches were out there the year we hired Mike McCarthy tthe year before. But it also did give Thompson another year to look... and Harlan probably did want to keep Sherman.

And from what I've heard Thompson was willing to work with Sherman but Sherman wasn't happy he lost his GM job and couldn't get past that to give Thompson a fair chance... and when GMs and coaches can't get along usually the GM wins it seem...


Another thing, I hope McCarthy develops more of a "killer instinct" because it starts with him as far as the team is concerned.

"Greg C." wrote:



This is a great point. The team does struggle to finish opponents off.

Here is something interesting to ponder for people.

I think most people argue the four elite NFC teams going into the season are Green Bay, Minnesota, Dallas, and New Orleans.

I'm not so sure that Mike McCarthy isn't the second best head coach out of that group. Worth pointing out.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:




I agree that's has been something I haven't liked about Mike McCarthy... when the Packers have a close lead late he seems to play not to lose... and trying to take time off the clock more so than to keep putting points up on the board.

"porky88" wrote:



If you can remember back to '96, Holmgren reigned in Favre to keep him from losing the Super Bowl. ST got us field position and after the Patriots swung momentum in the 3rd quarter, ST scored to put the game back to 2 scores and the D took over the game, led by Reggie and back to back sacks. Favre and the Offense didn't score the entire second half. They played a field position and don't make a costly mistake game.

"PackerTraxx" wrote:



IMO Holgrem did a very poor job of coaching in both SBs and Wolf did a poor job(bad decisions) of keeping the team together the second SB year. We shoud have won both very handily. The Pats weren't all that good and a return like Desmond's has a certain amount of luck in it. We should have won easily, but at least we won. Denver I don't even like to talk about.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
Zero2Cool
13 years ago
Gruden won a Super Bowl with a Tony Dungy built team.
UserPostedImage
Similar Topics
Users browsing this topic
    Fan Shout
    Zero2Cool (3-May) : Jordan Love CAN sign an extension as of today. Might tak weeks/months though
    TheKanataThrilla (3-May) : Packers decline 5th year option for Stokes
    Mucky Tundra (3-May) : @ProFootballTalk Jaylen Warren: Steelers' special teams coach has discussed Justin Fields returning kicks.
    Zero2Cool (2-May) : Season officially ending tonight for Bucks ... sad face
    Zero2Cool (2-May) : Giannis Antetokounmpo is listed as out for tonight's game.
    dfosterf (2-May) : Surprisingly low initially is my guess cap wise, but gonna pay the piper after that
    dfosterf (2-May) : The number on Love is going to be brutal.
    Zero2Cool (2-May) : May 3rd. Extension day for Jordan Love. (soonest)
    Zero2Cool (1-May) : USFL MVP QB Alex McGough moved to WR. So that's why no WR drafted!
    earthquake (1-May) : Packers draft starters at safety ever few years. Collins, Clinton-Dix, Savage
    beast (1-May) : Why can't the rookies be a day 1 starter? Especially when we grabbed 3 of them at the position
    dfosterf (1-May) : Not going to be shocked if Gilmore goes to the Lions.
    dfosterf (1-May) : I hear you dhazer, but my guess would be Gilmore Colts and Howard Vikings from what little has been reported.
    Mucky Tundra (30-Apr) : S learn from McKinney who learns from Hafley who learns from the fans. Guaranteed Super Bowl
    Zero2Cool (30-Apr) : could*
    Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Safeties should learn from Xavier.
    dhazer (29-Apr) : And what about grabbing a Gilmore or Howard at CB ? Those are all Free Agents left
    dhazer (29-Apr) : out of curiosity do they try and sign Simmons or Hyde to let these young safeties learn from, they can't be day 1 starters.
    Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : I miss having Sam Shields.
    Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Not that he's making excuses, just pointing it out
    Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : That's for dang sure. Make our erratic kicker have no excuse!
    packerfanoutwest (28-Apr) : having a great long snapper is gold
    Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : LaFleur looking like he had some weight. Coachin will do that lol
    Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : Thanks Mucky and whomever created topcos for each pick!
    Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : Insane about Kingsley
    dfosterf (28-Apr) : Putring it here so Mucky sees it. He was our guy!
    dfosterf (28-Apr) : Bowden long snapper Wisconsin. Consensus best LS in college.
    dfosterf (28-Apr) : We got Peter Bowde
    dfosterf (28-Apr) : I personally interpret that as a partial tear that can be recovered from with rehab
    dfosterf (28-Apr) : MLF said Kingsley Enagbare did NOT tear his ACL and did NOT require surgery, and that he is "looking good" for the 2024 season!
    beast (28-Apr) : T.O. son signs with the 49ers
    Mucky Tundra (28-Apr) : damn those vikings
    beast (27-Apr) : UDFA Vikings sign TE – Trey Knox, South Carolina
    beast (27-Apr) : Kitchen was all high from Miami, he was more lucky than talented in 2022 and it showed in 2023
    beast (27-Apr) : Reportedly Packers have UDFAs Jennings and Jones
    beast (27-Apr) : OL – Donovan Jennings, USF OT – Trente Jones, Michigan
    TheKanataThrilla (27-Apr) : Interesting draft. A bit shocked that we didn't select an early CB. Definitely have Safety help. Pretty happy overall.
    dhazer (27-Apr) : wow the last 2 picks are really stupid and probably will be special teams players Top 10 draft pick next year book it
    TheKanataThrilla (27-Apr) : I think he ended up with a terrible RAS score
    dhazer (27-Apr) : Anyone know what went on with Kitchens from Florida? At 1 point he was to be the Packers 1st round and he is way down the board now
    Martha Careful (27-Apr) : Z, could you please combine my thread with yours please. I obviously did not see it when I Created it
    Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Re: 'Kool-Aid' McKinstry. Other than Icky Woods, has there ever been a good NFLer with a childish nickname?
    Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Packers looking to trade up
    Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Flag?
    Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Sag?
    Nonstopdrivel (26-Apr) : It rhymes with "bag."
    beast (26-Apr) : Family? That's Deadpool's F word
    Nonstopdrivel (26-Apr) : Not THAT f-word.
    Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : fuck
    beast (25-Apr) : 49ers are Cap Tight
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2023 Packers Schedule
    Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
    Bears
    38 - 20
    Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
    Falcons
    24 - 25
    Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
    SAINTS
    18 - 17
    Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
    LIONS
    20 - 34
    Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
    Raiders
    13 - 17
    Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
    Broncos
    17 - 19
    Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    10 - 24
    Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
    RAMS
    20 - 3
    Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
    Steelers
    19 - 23
    Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
    CHARGERS
    23 - 20
    Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
    Lions
    29 - 22
    Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
    CHIEFS
    27 - 19
    Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
    Giants
    22 - 24
    Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
    BUCCANEERS
    20 - 34
    Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
    Panthers
    33 - 30
    Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
    Vikings
    33 - 10
    Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
    BEARS
    17 - 9
    Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
    Cowboys
    48 - 32
    Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
    49ers
    21 - 24
    Recent Topics
    2h / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

    3h / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

    3h / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

    17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

    3-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    3-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / go.pack.go.

    2-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    2-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

    1-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

    1-May / Packers Draft Threads / dfosterf

    30-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    29-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

    29-Apr / Packers Draft Threads / Zero2Cool

    29-Apr / Packers Draft Threads / Mucky Tundra

    28-Apr / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.