uffda udfa
7 years ago
2013 1 26 Datone Jones DE UCLA -> D
2013 2 61 Eddie Lacy RB Alabama -> B
2013 4 109 David Bakhtiari T Colorado -> B
2013 4 122 J.C. Tretter T Cornell -> C+
2013 4 125 Johnathan Franklin RB UCLA -> I
2013 5 159 Micah Hyde CB Iowa -> C+
2013 5 167 Josh Boyd DE Mississippi St. -> D
2013 6 193 Nate Palmer LB Illinois St. -> F
2013 7 216 Charles Johnson WR Grand Valley St. -> I
2013 7 224 Kevin Dorsey WR Maryland -> F
2013 7 232 Sam Barrington LB South Florida -> C

Overall about a C+ draft.

Jones is way too slow to be effective as an OLB. D Grade will likely drop to F if he fails at OLB as I suspect.

Lacy is not anywhere near an "A" an "A" draft choice doesn't get benched and nearly eat himself out of the league in year 3. Eddie had a terrible year last year.

Bakhtiari for his draft position has been a good find. He's a below average LT, though.

Tretter has done very little for us but offers us versatility on the OL which is a nice thing.

Hyde is just a guy. A decent player nothing special. Pretty good on punt returns. Sure handed.

Boyd has done next to nothing.

Palmer is an F. Not good at OLB and worse at ILB.

Dorsey is an F. Did nothing with us.

Barrington is a below average ILB. A head scratcher as to how he could be considered a starter. Very poor athleticism.


To get a LT, even though he's below average, in Round 4 is nice. Getting a RB who has shown some promise here and there is also nice...this year will determine which way Eddie's career is heading.

Hyde is just an all around decent football player. Tretter is nice insurance on the OL and looked good at C in preseason.

Overall, getting two backup bit players in Hyde and Tretter and two starters is a nice draft. Not overwhelmingly good by any means but not a total disaster like the two drafts that preceded it. Just because most of these picks are on our roster doesn't mean they're excellent picks. Where would you expect our roster to be filled from? We're almost all draft and one or two UDFA's per season. Other teams cut more of their picks rather than rely on them, not because we draft better but because they have other means of filling their roster. When our guys aren't great performers they stick. See Brad Jones and AJ Hawk starting at ILB for years and Barrington and Ryan riding top of the depth chart this season. Nominal NFL starters at very best case.




UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


DarkaneRules
7 years ago
The hits of the draft make up for the misses. I give it a B+
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Zero2Cool
7 years ago
I applied a little statistical analysis to my grades with one of those sophisticated algorithms. Ok, Okay, I divided their games played against games they could have played while giving them a bench rookie season curve and used the common grading scale.

Grade: A+ for Datone Jones
Grade: A+ for Eddie Lacy
Grade: A+ for David Bakhtiari
Grade: C for J.C. Tretter
Grade: F for Johnathan Franklin *
Grade: A+ for Micah Hyde
Grade: B- for Josh Boyd
Grade: C for Nate Palmer
Grade: F for Charles Johnson **
Grade: F for Kevin Dorsey
Grade: D+ for Sam Barrington

Overall Class B

* - Johnathan Franklin suffered career ending injury
** - Charles Johnson never played for the Packers, but would be a C- if Vikings drafted him based on this "algorithm".
UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
7 years ago
I would like to update my Josh Boyd grade to "F".
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Barfarn
7 years ago
Grades are a relative thing. If Ted Thompson drafted 4 HOFers in 2013, but all others drafted 6, his draft is a D.
Ted Thompson gets an A++++++ compared to the great John Schneider's 2013 draft [Note: Schneider was 3 years removed from knowledge of TT's draft board and the real talent evaluator (Mcloughin) was ineffective and succumbing to "personal issues" that ultimately forced his resignation right before 2014 draft. Of all these guys only 1 started for 1 year [Luke Willson]. Not a single guy here that I'd trade for Datone.

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
2 62 Christine Michael RB Texas A&M
3 87 Jordan Hill DT Penn State
4 123 Chris Harper WR Kansas State
5 137 Jesse Williams DT Alabama
5 138 Tharold Simon CB LSU
5 158 Luke Willson TE Rice
6 194 Spencer Ware RB LSU
7 220 Ryan Seymour OG Vanderbilt
7 231 Ty Powell LB Harding
7 241 Jared Smith DT New Hampshire
7 242 Michael Bowie OT Northeastern State (Okla.)

How about compared to other world renowned drafters:

A+ v. Belicheck:

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
2 52 Jamie Collins OLB Southern Mississippi
2 59 Aaron Dobson WR Marshall
3 83 Logan Ryan CB Rutgers
3 91 Duron Harmon SS Rutgers
4 102 Josh Boyce WR Texas Christian
7 226 Michael Buchanan DE Illinois
7 235 Steve Beauharnais ILB Rutgers

A+++ v. Ozzie

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 32 Matt Elam FS Florida
2 56 Arthur Brown ILB Kansas State
3 94 Brandon Williams DT Missouri Southern State
4 129 John Simon LB Ohio State
4 130 Kyle Juszczyk RB Harvard
5 168 Ricky Wagner OT Wisconsin
6 200 Kapron Lewis-Moore DE Notre Dame
6 203 Ryan Jensen C Southern Colorado
7 238 Aaron Mellette WR Elon
7 247 Marc Anthony CB California

A v. Elway [Williams is pretty good-the rest total suck]

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 28 Sylvester Williams DT North Carolina
2 58 Montee Ball RB Wisconsin
3 90 Kayvon Webster CB South Florida
5 146 Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky
5 161 Tavarres King WR Georgia
6 173 Vinston Painter OT Virginia Tech
7 234 Zac Dysert QB Miami (Ohio)
uffda udfa
7 years ago
When it comes to drafting itself and the grading of it both are so subjective it's ridiculous. Barfarn makes a fine case when it comes to grading on a curve, if that's how you want to measure. I choose to measure a different way. What any other team does in a draft or how good their draft is to be judged is irrelevant to our draft and our draft grade.

If a hitter in MLB bats .220 for a season and you want to compare him to a guy who batted .200 and another who hit .190 and then claim the guy who hit .220 is doing a tremendous job, I would vehemently disagree. .220 needs to be judged in the context of what it is vs. the history or totality of MLB. .220 sucks. That isn't to say that Ted's 2013 draft was bad. It wasn't but to make it into something better than it was based on the failings of some randomly picked teams is plain silly.

Basically, Barfarn, and some others, have turned a decent draft into something that should be thought of among the all time great drafts. There isn't a single superstar from this draft. Hyde is what would commonly be called a JAG. Tretter is a backup OL. Bakhtiari is a nice player for a 4th rounder but he's not a top LT prospect, he's below average. Lacy is an unknown. Totally off the rails last season. Close to being a guy who was on his way out of the league. That is not some all world selection. He's been above average based on his 3 seasons in total. How this draft is anything more than a bit above average is puzzling to me. This is nothing like some of the Cowboys drafts under Jimmy Johnson that built them into a dynasty.

I know what a great draft looks like and trying to use a measure like some curve grading doesn't come close to meaning 2013 was a great draft. Perhaps, a great draft COMPARED TO CERTAIN TEAMS is fair to say but that has nothing to do with whether it was a great draft, period. It wasn't.

EDIT: I may have shorted Tretter just a bit. He is a backup but that's because Linsley took his job. Tretter could just as easily be our starting center so he should be a B instead of a C+.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


steveishere
7 years ago
I agree comparing a single teams draft to other random teams drafts isn't too meaningful but neither is comparing it to drafts from another year or to some idealized version of what a good draft is. Each draft has different amounts and levels of talent. The top 20ish players in the 2011 draft had an insane amount of talent compared to most drafts from this decade for example. I think compared to the amount of talent available in the 2013 draft we actually made out pretty well.
Zero2Cool
7 years ago

I applied a little statistical analysis to my grades with one of those sophisticated algorithms. Ok, Okay, I divided their games played against games they could have played while giving them a bench rookie season curve and used the common grading scale.

Grade: A+ for Datone Jones
Grade: A+ for Eddie Lacy
Grade: A+ for David Bakhtiari
Grade: C for J.C. Tretter
Grade: F for Johnathan Franklin *
Grade: A+ for Micah Hyde
Grade: B- for Josh Boyd
Grade: C for Nate Palmer
Grade: F for Charles Johnson **
Grade: F for Kevin Dorsey
Grade: D+ for Sam Barrington

Overall Class B

* - Johnathan Franklin suffered career ending injury
** - Charles Johnson never played for the Packers, but would be a C- if Vikings drafted him based on this "algorithm".

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 




2013 Grade: C-

The Skinny: The Packers had 11 picks and landed three starters in defensive end/linebacker Datone Jones (first round), running back Eddie Lacy (second round) and left tackle David Bakhtiari in the fourth. Seventh-round linebacker Sam Barrington also is expected to start inside after missing all but one game last season with an injury. Safety-corner Micah Hyde has been a good player on their defense since being taken in the fifth round. Fourth-round offensive lineman J.C. Tretter has started games at center and tackle.

How I did: I liked the pick of Jones, and he has been decent. I questioned taking Lacy in the second round, which is TBD after last season. But I liked fourth-round runner Jonathan Franklin, who suffered a serious neck injury as a rookie and was forced to retire.

New Grade: B+

Pete Prisco  wrote:



Pete basically copied my grading system.

UserPostedImage
Barfarn
7 years ago

When it comes to drafting itself and the grading of it both are so subjective it's ridiculous. Barfarn makes a fine case when it comes to grading on a curve, if that's how you want to measure. I choose to measure a different way. What any other team does in a draft or how good their draft is to be judged is irrelevant to our draft and our draft grade.

If a hitter in MLB bats .220 for a season and you want to compare him to a guy who batted .200 and another who hit .190 and then claim the guy who hit .220 is doing a tremendous job, I would vehemently disagree. .220 needs to be judged in the context of what it is vs. the history or totality of MLB. .220 sucks. That isn't to say that Ted's 2013 draft was bad. It wasn't but to make it into something better than it was based on the failings of some randomly picked teams is plain silly.

Basically, Barfarn, and some others, have turned a decent draft into something that should be thought of among the all time great drafts. There isn't a single superstar from this draft. Hyde is what would commonly be called a JAG. Tretter is a backup OL. Bakhtiari is a nice player for a 4th rounder but he's not a top LT prospect, he's below average. Lacy is an unknown. Totally off the rails last season. Close to being a guy who was on his way out of the league. That is not some all world selection. He's been above average based on his 3 seasons in total. How this draft is anything more than a bit above average is puzzling to me. This is nothing like some of the Cowboys drafts under Jimmy Johnson that built them into a dynasty.

I know what a great draft looks like and trying to use a measure like some curve grading doesn't come close to meaning 2013 was a great draft. Perhaps, a great draft COMPARED TO CERTAIN TEAMS is fair to say but that has nothing to do with whether it was a great draft, period. It wasn't.

EDIT: I may have shorted Tretter just a bit. He is a backup but that's because Linsley took his job. Tretter could just as easily be our starting center so he should be a B instead of a C+.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



The point wasn't about grading "on a curve." A grading system is not an absolute thing; it is a relative thing by its very nature. When I was in school a C was average and B above average. I ask average/above average to what? Answer: the other kids at that school.

EG. Bakhtierri's grade is 100% based on his relative worth to the other 31 LTs. If Bak was the same exact player; but all other LTs were worse [making him the best LT], wouldn't he get an A+? And if he played the exact same, but a flood of Tony Munozes came out and Bak was the worst LT, wouldn't he get a D or F?
Also behind the grade is stats, which are also relative and sometimes dont reflect a player's true value.

Tretter has few stats, but I've graded his play. Tretter is the best back-up center in the league and probably about #15, if he played the last 2 years, he'd be a top 5 center. I see Tretter as an Aish center and Bish guard, who is blocked by 3 very good players.

Referencing your baseball analogy: It is also relative, not absolute. .220 might be really good if they moved he mound in to 30' from home plate or someone developed a pitch that was much less hittable; kinda like Sutter's split fingered fastball. In 1968 the avg batting average in an AL game was .230, did all those guys suck? It rose to .246 in '69; so did the players improve by 16 points? No, they lowered the mound after '68 season.

The 3 teams I compared our '13 draft to were not listed randomly; they were teams drafting about where we were, whose GMs on this board have had a history of being compared close to or favorably to Ted Thompson by many posters here including myself in some cases [But to me Schneider has always been a clown GM]. Compared to those guys Ted did very well. If every team drafted 5 all-pros in 2013, and our players are what they are our draft grade would be way down.
gbguy20
7 years ago
It continues to drive me bonkers how people consider Hyde to be a decent defender. If you like guys who give up completion after completion, constantly being 2 steps being the receiver they are covering, then yea, hes a "decent defender." Hyde is there to make the tackle AFTER he allows them to catch it, every time (basically, the same reason why all of you hate AJ Hawk). It would be nice to see him stop the play from happening to begin with, you know, DEFEND it from happening.

Why did we get consistently destroyed over the middle last year? Because it was always Hyde "defending" the crossing route.

Keep him off the fucking field.
Fan Shout
dhazer (17m) : And what about grabbing a Gilmore or Howard at CB ? Those are all Free Agents left
dhazer (19m) : out of curiosity do they try and sign Simmons or Hyde to let these young safeties learn from, they can't be day 1 starters.
Zero2Cool (3h) : I miss having Sam Shields.
Zero2Cool (4h) : Not that he's making excuses, just pointing it out
Zero2Cool (4h) : That's for dang sure. Make our erratic kicker have no excuse!
packerfanoutwest (18h) : having a great long snapper is gold
Zero2Cool (23h) : LaFleur looking like he had some weight. Coachin will do that lol
Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : Thanks Mucky and whomever created topcos for each pick!
Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : Insane about Kingsley
dfosterf (28-Apr) : Putring it here so Mucky sees it. He was our guy!
dfosterf (28-Apr) : Bowden long snapper Wisconsin. Consensus best LS in college.
dfosterf (28-Apr) : We got Peter Bowde
dfosterf (28-Apr) : I personally interpret that as a partial tear that can be recovered from with rehab
dfosterf (28-Apr) : MLF said Kingsley Enagbare did NOT tear his ACL and did NOT require surgery, and that he is "looking good" for the 2024 season!
beast (28-Apr) : T.O. son signs with the 49ers
Mucky Tundra (28-Apr) : damn those vikings
beast (27-Apr) : UDFA Vikings sign TE – Trey Knox, South Carolina
beast (27-Apr) : Kitchen was all high from Miami, he was more lucky than talented in 2022 and it showed in 2023
beast (27-Apr) : Reportedly Packers have UDFAs Jennings and Jones
beast (27-Apr) : OL – Donovan Jennings, USF OT – Trente Jones, Michigan
TheKanataThrilla (27-Apr) : Interesting draft. A bit shocked that we didn't select an early CB. Definitely have Safety help. Pretty happy overall.
dhazer (27-Apr) : wow the last 2 picks are really stupid and probably will be special teams players Top 10 draft pick next year book it
TheKanataThrilla (27-Apr) : I think he ended up with a terrible RAS score
dhazer (27-Apr) : Anyone know what went on with Kitchens from Florida? At 1 point he was to be the Packers 1st round and he is way down the board now
Martha Careful (27-Apr) : Z, could you please combine my thread with yours please. I obviously did not see it when I Created it
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Re: 'Kool-Aid' McKinstry. Other than Icky Woods, has there ever been a good NFLer with a childish nickname?
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Packers looking to trade up
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Flag?
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Sag?
Nonstopdrivel (26-Apr) : It rhymes with "bag."
beast (26-Apr) : Family? That's Deadpool's F word
Nonstopdrivel (26-Apr) : Not THAT f-word.
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : fuck
beast (25-Apr) : 49ers are Cap Tight
beast (25-Apr) : Fuck
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : Kanata, I will be when I'm on my lunch later
TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : Love you NSD
Nonstopdrivel (25-Apr) : Huh. I guess the F-word is censored in this fan shout.
Nonstopdrivel (25-Apr) : Anyone who doesn't hang out in the chat probably smokes pole.
TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : GoPackGo Thinking CB is the pick tonight
TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : Anyone hanging out in the chat tonight?
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : whoa...49ers have had trade conversations about both Deebo Samuel and Brandon Aiyuk
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : I hope they take a Punter at 9th overall. Be bold!
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : I may end up eating those words but I think they need a lot more talent then their 4 picks can provide
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : I really hope they stand pat and Draft a WR
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : @DMRussini
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : The Chicago Bears are very open for business at 9 and telling teams they are ready to move for the right price, per source
buckeyepackfan (24-Apr) : Lions extend Penei Soul 4yrs - 112mil
buckeyepackfan (24-Apr) : Lions extend St. Brown 4 years 120mil and
Mucky Tundra (24-Apr) : Now look, trading up to 13 to take a TE might not seem like a good idea later but it will be later!
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