Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago
🙂
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Pack93z
13 years ago
Hmmm I wonder where Zero got that last post from. ;)

Seriously though.. kind of pathetic that we can look back over the years of posts and still see the same problems.. :shakes head:

Post subject: Re: Offensive line's problems start with Thompson 
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 08:42 AM


Maybe it's the coaching? We've had a number of talented-enough players drafted at those positions. You look at a line like NE who gets it done in dominant fashion with overachieving players and wonder why we can't.

Look at the sacks we allowed last year, and the yards Grant put up. The Giants D-line dominated everyone throughout the postseason. There really wasn't proof to suggest that we would struggle as much as we have this year. This is definitely a hindsight article.

"Pack93z" wrote:



Hindsight is all we have at this point correct? We can only look at the production of this line in total.. even last year when we were effect running the ball.. one week up and one week down..

I have said it once I have said it a hundred times, the problem is really two fold.. we are taking college tackles and TE and trying to make them learn to play low and become a guard. Two, we haven't seen the development of talent across the line.. Coston should have been a player by this time.. he had the tools.. as well as Spitz.. but they aren't progressing as they should.. that points to coaching in my book.

Albeit, people bang on the scheme, which we run a hybrid of a cross between drive blocking and zone in the running game, and in the zone to be effective you have to stop the movement of the defender to allow the running lanes to form.. without cutting and being undersized.. that is a difficult task.

I personally hate the cut block.. as a defender you hate guys hitting around the knees and alot of times you have extreme stress on your legs in the first place.. cutting leads to injuries, and I am not in favor of it.

So, in the end, I agree that our modified version of a run scheme isn't effective with smaller lineman.. they just aren't stout enough to pull it off, then playing high without optimal leverage isn't helping either.

Campen nor Fontenot have ever ran the zone.. they are old school drive blockers.. but even there something is amiss.. these lineman aren't playing technique sound ball.

In the end.. it has to be one of the biggest priorities again this offseason.. time to "get our house clean" along the offensive front.

I will give this line this credit.. more so than not over the past three years, they have been an above average line in pass protection in general.. but there is more to football than passing the ball.

Defenses aren't respecting our run game and can feel comfortable in sending extra people crashing on most downs.. we are making their job easier..

"MassPackersFan" wrote:


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
dfosterf
13 years ago

🙂

"Wade" wrote:



[strike]Chad Clifton 6'5" 320 2nd round 2000 draft[/strike]


[strike]Mark Tauscher 6'3" 320 7th round 2000 draft [/strike]


[strike]Scott Wells 6'2" 300 7th round 2004 draft[/strike]


[strike]Daryn Colledge 6'4" 308 2nd round 2006 draft[/strike]


[strike]Jason Spitz 6'3" 305 3rd round 2006 draft[/strike]


Josh Sitton 6'3" 318 4th round 2008 draft


T.J. Lang 6'4" 318 4th round 2009 draft


Bryan Bulaga 6'5" 314 1st round 2010 draft


Marshall Newhouse 6'4" 319 5th round 2010 draft


Nick McDonald 6'4" 316 UDFA 2010

We need more linemen, Wade. 🙂
Pack93z
13 years ago
Yet Another.. before Spitz had the injury issues.

Post subject: Re: Friday 1:15 PM 
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:16 PM


Do you think its the coaches with that Zone Blocking Scheme of theirs mucking things up, or do you believe it's the players themselves who aren't up to snuff?

Me, I can't really tell. I think Clifton is great, and so it Tauscher, but even they have been off this year.

"Pack93z" wrote:



Since we don't run a "true" zone blocking system, we can throw out the system as the problem.. well at least the "true" system.

1) We haven't seen growth along the oline, Colledge, Spitz and Moll still make the same mistakes, Barbre hasn't leaped out and grabbed a spot or even Wells cleaned up his game. That leads me to point towards coaching as a potential issue.. which sorry Campen, seems apparent.

2) Almost everyone of the olineman taken in the Ted era are tackles at the college level.. and we are trying to convert them to guard/tackle combos. Spitz is the exception and probably the most consistent of the bunch. Think it is a coincidence.. not likely. Most tackles at the college level are put at tackle for a number of different reasons.. mostly because they have length, play tall and have a wide base. So they learn and become accustomed to that, playing up right and tall.. add to it their footwork in more north and south than a interior player.

So we bring them up and try to convert them into multi-positional players.. so now you have a player that is not only trying to learn a new position, playing level is different and footwork has changed.. they also are being asked to remember the tackle spot as well.

It can be done.. but most players convert to playing either inside or outside on the line.. not a combination of both.. I personally believe that is some of the fundamental problems you see with this group.

3) They lack beef.. even though they test strong in the weight room.. they lack the girth to man up and beat their guys with raw power.. so when they get caught to high.. they get driven back. Want to see it.. go catch Moll in the first three game.. dude was on skates.


Sorry for the novel.. but that is my opinion.. as off topic as it may be from the original thread topic.. but their screw ups this weekend may put our QB back on the sidelines.. so in a round about way.. on topic.

"bigfog" wrote:


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
13 years ago
Since I was looking dug this up again.

BTW.. ton of good posts in those threads by a number of different people.

I just grabbed mine, but not because they were the only or best.. just I still feel that way for the most part.. albeit our picks for additions to the line have changed.. we added some beef lately.


Post subject: The Zone Blocking scheme 
Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 01:02 PM

Here is a piece I posted a long time ago on another board.


For those looking for a definition to the scheme... here you go.. and it will maybe help dispell the illusion that any running back can be successful in the scheme. To me the running back needs to have great vision, decisive decision making, instincts and a decent burst to utilize the scheme.

But Warhawk's point above to me is correct.. you have to have the correct personal to run the scheme, the lineman have to be athletic and be able to make reads at the line. Additionally they have to be able to get out of their stance quickly.

The running game in football used to be pretty simple. The most complex things you would see for line play were some pulling guards to run sweeps or traps. But then several years ago you began to hear the word zone get thrown around more and more frequently (with the likes of Denver, Atlanta and others adopting it... yes us too) until it's about all you hear anymore.

In a general overview this is how a zone should be blocked, but I won't pretend to be an expert, but I will try to explain the basics to simplify things a bit. In the offense you and I grew up in, most of the time the running back had a specific point to try to run through, and the OL tried to create a seam right in that spot. Called man or drive blocking, requires more strength and doesn't require as much agility because everything happens in front of you.

With zone, you don't tell the running back exactly where to go. You direct his first couple of steps, and the point at which he gets the hand-off from the QB, but from there it's his responsibility to find a seam. Hence the "one" cut and go mantra that you hear about from the coaches.

There are a couple different kinds of zone, two of the most common being the inside zone and the zone stretch.

The "inside zone" is more of a downhill attack, and is more likely to produce the cutback lane. The back must be able to read the progress of the play and cut and go.

The "zone stretch" does just what it sounds like - runs more towards the edge, trying to get defensive flow horizontally so a vertical seam can be created, moreso of the drive or man scheme. Big play potential here.

Blocking the zone is where it really helps to have athletic linemen who can move horizontally with decent power and push. In fact, the OL must be able to move horizontally, all while keeping their shoulders square to the line of scrimmage and while engaging the defense. If they open up their shoulders at all, at can create a seam for the defense to get penetration and disrupt the play before it starts.

"pack93z" wrote:


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
dfosterf
13 years ago
Marcus Cannon of TCU goes 6'5" 350.

:)
dfosterf
13 years ago
Mike Poncey out of Florida is 6'4" and 310.

310 is my personal lower limit. I want him carefully weighed at the combine.

:)
dfosterf
13 years ago
...And Ted can go into FREE AGENCY to get a GD cornerback.

A- It's his fault we don't have an o-line, now he has to finally fix it.

B- I prefer CB's out of free agency anyway.

And we can fire Campen and give the new guy material to work with.
Rockmolder
13 years ago

Mike Poncey out of Florida is 6'4" and 310.

310 is my personal lower limit. I want him carefully weighed at the combine.

:)

"dfosterf" wrote:



His twin brother, Maurkice Pouncey, eventually weighed in at 304 at the combine.

That's some good genes in an identical twin, who plays the same position at the same college. Doesn't get much more sure than that. I think we'd get ourselves a very good guard or center in this kid.
Pack93z
13 years ago
Maurkice Pouncey, at 304 even, is a dominant player even as a rookie. We would do very well at talent as such.

The Packers cupboard isn't as bare as some suggest.. cough Foster, but we better address the men leading that group. we have talent along the line, because we see it at times. It is just inconsistent as all hell.. yearly.

Shit can the position coaches that tolerate it yearly.

BTW.. I expect one of the best offensive line performances of the year Sunday.. because Campen got his ass chewed.. and in turn the Players got their asses chewed... things will look different on that line come Sunday.. and will be that way for a couple of weeks until they slip into a comfort zone and let down.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Fan Shout
Martha Careful (10-May) : 1. this is true of all our linemen. 2. His run block is fine. 3. If all OL played like he has, we would win SB.
beast (10-May) : Meyers pass blocking is really good, his run blocking is really not.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : Packers have claimed DE Spencer Waege off of waivers from the 49ers and waived DT Rodney Mathews.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : And the OL protections seem to be good.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : I really don't know lol. I don't see him getting blown up.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : -3 buwahhhahaaha
Mucky Tundra (9-May) : 4th
Zero2Cool (9-May) : because he's 1st
Mucky Tundra (9-May) : Myers isn't even the 3rd best C on the roster atm
Martha Careful (9-May) : I am not sure I understand the Myers hate. He was consistently our third best lineman. RG and LT were worse.
beast (9-May) : Just saying I don't think moving Myers would help Myers.
beast (9-May) : Center is usually considered the easiest position physically if you can handle the snap stuff.
Mucky Tundra (8-May) : Bust it is then
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Context. Sounds like Myers won't be cross-trained. C or bust.
Mucky Tundra (8-May) : @BookOfEli_NFL Packers pass game coordinator, Jason Vrable said that Jayden Reed and Dontayvion Wicks shared a placed in Florida while train
Mucky Tundra (8-May) : For now...
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers go about evaluating their "best five," OL coach Luke Butkus makes on thing clear: "Josh Myers is our center."
beast (8-May) : Though I'm a bit surprised letting go of CBs, I thought we needed more not less
beast (8-May) : It was confusing with two DB Anthony Johnson anyways
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers actually had Ray Lewis on the phone.
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers wanted to draft Ray Lewis. Ravens stole him.
Martha Careful (6-May) : Happy 93rd Birthday to the Greatest Baseball Player of All-Time...Willie Mays
Zero2Cool (6-May) : Walter Stanely's son
buckeyepackfan (6-May) : and released CB Anthony Johnson and DL Deandre Johnson and waived/injured WR Thyrick Pitts (thigh-rick).
buckeyepackfan (6-May) : The Green Bay Packers have signed WR Julian Hicks, OL Lecitus Smith (luh-SEET-us) and WR Dimitri Stanley
Zero2Cool (6-May) : Petty, but it's annoying me how the NFL is making the schedule release an event.
Mucky Tundra (4-May) : @mattschneidman Matt LaFleur on how he tore his pec: “Got in a fight with the bench press. I lost.”
Zero2Cool (3-May) : Jordan Love CAN sign an extension as of today. Might tak weeks/months though
TheKanataThrilla (3-May) : Packers decline 5th year option for Stokes
Mucky Tundra (3-May) : @ProFootballTalk Jaylen Warren: Steelers' special teams coach has discussed Justin Fields returning kicks.
Zero2Cool (2-May) : Season officially ending tonight for Bucks ... sad face
Zero2Cool (2-May) : Giannis Antetokounmpo is listed as out for tonight's game.
dfosterf (2-May) : Surprisingly low initially is my guess cap wise, but gonna pay the piper after that
dfosterf (2-May) : The number on Love is going to be brutal.
Zero2Cool (2-May) : May 3rd. Extension day for Jordan Love. (soonest)
Zero2Cool (1-May) : USFL MVP QB Alex McGough moved to WR. So that's why no WR drafted!
earthquake (1-May) : Packers draft starters at safety ever few years. Collins, Clinton-Dix, Savage
beast (1-May) : Why can't the rookies be a day 1 starter? Especially when we grabbed 3 of them at the position
dfosterf (1-May) : Not going to be shocked if Gilmore goes to the Lions.
dfosterf (1-May) : I hear you dhazer, but my guess would be Gilmore Colts and Howard Vikings from what little has been reported.
Mucky Tundra (30-Apr) : S learn from McKinney who learns from Hafley who learns from the fans. Guaranteed Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (30-Apr) : could*
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Safeties should learn from Xavier.
dhazer (29-Apr) : And what about grabbing a Gilmore or Howard at CB ? Those are all Free Agents left
dhazer (29-Apr) : out of curiosity do they try and sign Simmons or Hyde to let these young safeties learn from, they can't be day 1 starters.
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : I miss having Sam Shields.
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Not that he's making excuses, just pointing it out
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : That's for dang sure. Make our erratic kicker have no excuse!
packerfanoutwest (28-Apr) : having a great long snapper is gold
Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : LaFleur looking like he had some weight. Coachin will do that lol
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