Dulak
  • Dulak
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
12 years ago
So here is this article and then you have obama running around touting his stuff ... notice I pointed out the His.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_exclusive/20110511/pl_yblog_exclusive/polls-show-americans-support-immigration-reform-so-why-dont-politicians;_ylt=AnWIHEQbtX1RO5fKTqotf7qs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTVvYmdydnU2BGFzc2V0A3libG9nX2V4Y2x1c2l2ZS8yMDExMDUxMS9wb2xscy1zaG93LWFtZXJpY2Fucy1zdXBwb3J0LWltbWlncmF0aW9uLXJlZm9ybS1zby13aHktZG9udC1wb2xpdGljaWFucwRjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzQEcG9zAzEEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl9oZWFkbGluZV9saXN0BHNsawNwb2xsc3Nob3dhbWU- 

Now maybe my ramble is based on personal bias or maybe not.

Right now I am living in britain and have had a real hard time in being able to stay here. As a matter of fact if I wasnt going to get married I would not be able to stay here at all. And as a matter of fact if I overstayed and the government knew they would soon deport me and then I would also face a ban from coming here for so long.

The only way I could stay here without getting married would be to acquire work through a sponsorship (which is a big process with lots of checks and paper work) or I have to prove I made a certain amount and paid a certain amount in taxes (a fairly large amount).

If not again I would be out.

Now I do not know all the ins and outs of immigration in the states even thou I am from there (I know alot more about the british system now). From what I understand thou is the states has a similar process as britian or maybe even a tougher stance.

Then I ask this - Why are there 20million~ illegals living in the states and they are mostly accepted and not deported and now the president says thats ok lets just make them citizens ...
Why?

In my time here in the UK I have met hundreds of brits that would of liked to go to the states to Work at a legitimate job and pay taxes and to live there. But they cannot ... because of all the hoop jumping ...

So even if a emotional argument does not work ... lets look at it logically.

Whom do we want living in our country?

- We want people that are not criminals ... right?
- We want people that pay taxes like everyone else right?
- We want to give jobs to those that are from our country first right?
- anything else? - oh we might want to invite people in that can fill in jobs that the US needs right?

These are all things that britain has in place atm ... (well they have messed up things in their system too but for people like me (non EU or old conquered country).

Anyone see any issues with the above?

No right ...

So why do peeps think that most americans want criminals that dont pay taxes, take away our jobs and abuse the system?

I know the old argument was from companies that liked to exploit people:
- cheap labor, true blooded americans wouldnt cut grass or clean ... so therefor we need to bring in illegals and hire them and pay them less and treat them like s%^&.

Or as the president likes to profess - our country was founded on immigration so therefor we should give them amnesty and citizenship? ... err really?

seriously?

Now lets ask why he defends this ...

- votes could it be?

how about this for example of 10 million people decided to what rob people whenever they felt like should we just allow it since well thats what 10 million people wanted to do? or how about smoke pot? I bet there are alot of pot smokers in the states ... shouldnt we legalize that now? ...

Let me tell you what I think should be done.

- ya our immigration system is a mess now - with all these millions of illegals atm ... and instead of giving amnesty to ALL of them. Make them go through a process just like EVERYONE that would choose to live there. EVERYONE ... a brit, a japenese person, a russian, hispanic whomever.

- ok ya give certain points for this or that as in are they helping society and paying taxes and did they commit crimes etc ... if not ya sure maybe.

- Deport those that are here illegally. Oh freaking well.

- And of course pay those that are here legally a decent wage and treat them with respect.

So my next question is this - whom here wants to give citizenship to those that came here illegally and why?

I mean I want to live in the UK right? ... and I just want to work and pay taxes and be a productive person ... yet I cant. Well unless I got married that is. Even then I still must jump through hoops and it must be proven that we can support ourselves etc ...

(ya its a ramble)
DakotaT
12 years ago
I have a question for all the history buffs, why was the Spanish American war fought, what were the spoils, and was the confiscation of the American west lands more about the railroads and obtaining the Port of San Francisco than repelling a Mexican army?

Dulak, I think a blind eye might be turned to illegal immigration due to guilt than anything else.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago
I have little problem with amnesty, since I think the laws that make it "illegal" ought to, most of them anyway, be themselves illegal.

Sure, there need to be some checks to prevent criminals, terrorists, fifth columns, and similar, but in my opinion these are a trivially small fraction of those seeking to emigrate to the USA.

To be honest, I just don't understand the argument that the accident of our place of birth privileges us to say "you aren't worthy of our freedoms." *We* did nothing to get our citizenship (most of us) except be lucky enough to be born to parents who lived here. The accident of our birth doesn't give us the moral high ground.

Especially since if you look back just a generation or three, most of our families weren't here to start with.

But, say many, what about all those damn illegals who are coming to get the free government handouts for welfare, medical care, social services, education, yadda yadda yadda.

First of all, that, too, is grossly overdone. Sure, if you live in Brownsville, Texas, or San Diego, California, you're going to see more Hispanic welfare mothers than if you are in rural Iowa. Just as you're going to see more black welfare mothers on the south side of Chicago than if you live in South Iowa. Are we going to argue that we shouldn't allow blacks in this country because some welfare cheats happen to be black.

And, second, the problem is not that too many Hispanics are joining the welfare roles. The problem is that we treat welfare as an entitlement. That we hold out this country as a place where we support everyone cradle to grave.

Well, I'm sorry. If we're going to think that, we can't have it both ways. Either we give it to everyone who's here, regardless of what we think of the color of their skin or the physical piece of dirt their mother happened to be lying in when they first fell out of the birth canal, or we should stop the notion of such entitlements.

If you think the damn illegals don't deserve all the stuff they're "getting" when they get here, then you ought to stop giving it to your neighbors, too. Because your neighbors deserve it no more than they do.

A few years ago I went on a silence-and-contemplation retreat deep in South Texas, no more than 20 miles or so north of Brownsville. I was there for personal spiritual reasons, but I couldn't help noticing how economically depressing the area was. (The only way for me to reach the House of Prayer was by bus, and this was not a fancy tour coach!)

When I left to come back, I had like a 9 hour bus ride to get to San Antonio (two separate transfers in towns I have since forgotten). But before I started that trip, I had to wait for a couple extra hours outside this dusty convenience store -- turns out that the bus had been stopped by border control just outside brownsville to roust out some apparent illegals.

The other end of my bus trip was San Antonio, where I stayed in a posh hotel literally across the street from the Alamo. Complete with jacuzzi tub and top-line "amenities" in the bathroom. When I went downstairs to the bar -- I have this weird thing, I like hotel bars -- I was the only one in the bar.

For like five minutes. And then the bar got invaded by a bunch of affluent suburban Texas women. Turns out there was some cheerleading competition that weekend, and the hotel was full of high school cheerleader moms. All of them I'm sure educated in the best schools and living in the nicest neighborhoods with hubbies that worked in nice glass office buildings in Houston and Dallas and Austin.

Sight unseen, I would take the busload of uneducated, dirty, poor, unskilled illegals that got taken back to Mexico, and a hundred more busloads of them, over the whole lot of Texas bimbos and their husbands.

Because unlike the bimbos, those uneducated, dirty, poor, and unskilled have both the capacity and willingness to produce value. It might take them a year, or ten, or a generation, before all that value is realized, but it will be. Just as my grandparents produced more value than my immigrant great-grandparents.

Too many people see immigrants as "mouths to feed". When what they are is hands to make, arms to lift, and brains to think.

The more hands we have, arms we have, brains we have, the more we get, and the more we are.

And the more we say, "No, not here," the more we deprive ourselves.

The more we show ourselves ignorant and unworthy of our wealth and our opportunities.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
12 years ago
A hotel full of MILF bimbos, oh what should a single man do? I think we should let our resident West Coast expert Zombieslayer take a shot.
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zombieslayer
12 years ago
I'll pass. I know the type Wade speaks of. Doesn't matter how nice they look. If you want to take an example of white privilege and someone who completely WASTES it....

Good rant by Dulak. I don't want everyone coming here. This is something Wade and I disagree on, but the #1 environmental problem today is not global warming or recycling or some other politically correct cause. It's overpopulation. The absolute last thing America needs is more uneducated 3rd world peasants.

California used to be gorgeous. Every year, we get more traffic and more urban sprawl; often in areas I used to photograph/hunt/fish in.
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DakotaT
12 years ago
I wonder what the Native Americans thought as the sailboats kept bringing all the unwanted pale faces? Zombie, I think you have a rather selfish attitude on this one, but I can't judge you for your position cause the only people invading ND are roughneckers for the oil patches. I don't know what it means to be inundated by unwanted people.
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Cheesey
12 years ago
I heard Obama making fun of the fact that republicans want tighter security on our borders.
Ask the people in Texas and surrounding states if they think it's funny.

Let's face the facts.....Obama is playing to the latino audience, so that he will get their votes next election. That's ALL he cares about. The President should take border security as one of the highest priorities. Yet he makes light of it.
He wants to be "politically correct" over being the "bad guy" and protecting the legal citizens of this country.
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Cheesey
12 years ago

I wonder what the Native Americans thought as the sailboats kept bringing all the unwanted pale faces? Zombie, I think you have a rather selfish attitude on this one, but I can't judge you for your position cause the only people invading ND are roughneckers for the oil patches. I don't know what it means to be inundated by unwanted people.

"DakotaT" wrote:


I don't think it's selfish at all.
I think all Zombie wants is for the people that want to be here to do so LEGALLY.
And that is EXACTLY as i want it. If they do it legally, i have NO problem with people from other countries coming here. But anyone that breaks the law to be here should be deported.
Why have laws if you don't intend to enforce them? Might as well just let anyone come in, and who CARES if they are criminals? At least that's the attitude of the current inhabitants of the White House.
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DakotaT
12 years ago

I don't think it's selfish at all.
I think all Zombie wants is for the people that want to be here to do so LEGALLY.
And that is EXACTLY as i want it. If they do it legally, i have NO problem with people from other countries coming here. But anyone that breaks the law to be here should be deported.
Why have laws if you don't intend to enforce them? Might as well just let anyone come in, and who CARES if they are criminals? At least that's the attitude of the current inhabitants of the White House.

"Cheesey" wrote:



OK, well how about we throw all the contractors in prison then for using the illegals? This issue has more to do with harvesting our crops and doing all the shit work American borns deem beneath them. I have no problem with them signing the guestbook on the way in, but we need to hold everybody accountable for this problem.
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Porforis
12 years ago

I don't think it's selfish at all.
I think all Zombie wants is for the people that want to be here to do so LEGALLY.
And that is EXACTLY as i want it. If they do it legally, i have NO problem with people from other countries coming here. But anyone that breaks the law to be here should be deported.
Why have laws if you don't intend to enforce them? Might as well just let anyone come in, and who CARES if they are criminals? At least that's the attitude of the current inhabitants of the White House.

"DakotaT" wrote:



OK, well how about we throw all the contractors in prison then for using the illegals? This issue has more to do with harvesting our crops and doing all the shit work American borns deem beneath them. I have no problem with them signing the guestbook on the way in, but we need to hold everybody accountable for this problem.

"Cheesey" wrote:



I'm all for throwing people that knowingly hired illegals in jail for at the very least tax evasion if people are being paid under the table. If they knowingly hired people with stolen social security information they're an accomplice to identity fraud.

The bottom line is, neither party wants to take the stance that they should take because neither party wants to give up their piece of the latino voting block. As with everything else in politics, it's not about doing what's best for the country, it's about self-serving politicians.
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