Nonstopdrivel
12 years ago

WEDNESDAY, JUN 8, 2011 08:09 ET
U.S.-led nation-building could leave Afghanistan in a depression 
A Senate report released Wednesday says the highly expensive aid program does not help long-term development
BY NATASHA LENNARD

UserPostedImage
AP Photo/Jason Reed
Defense Secretary Robert Gates greets troops in Afghanistan

A Senate report released today is highly critical of U.S.-led nation-building efforts in Afghanistan, which has cost $18.8 billion over the past 10 years. The report, compiled over two years by Democrats on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, "comes as Congress and the American public have grown increasingly restive about the human and economic cost of the decade-long war and reflects growing concerns about Obama’s war strategy even among supporters within his party," the Washington Post notes.

The State Department and U.S. Agency for International Development spend $320 million per month on aid efforts in areas that have been cleared of Taliban forces, but according to the report, "Afghanistan could suffer a severe economic depression when foreign troops leave in 2014 unless the proper planning begins now."

The crux of the report is that the highly expensive aid program funds short-term stabilization, which has limited success when it comes to long term development in the country.

One particular strategy, which involves giving money to local governments is criticized by the report for its potential to "fuel corruption, distort labor and goods markets, undermine the host government’s ability to exert control over resources, and contribute to insecurity."

As the WaPo notes:

One example cited in the report is the Performance-Based Governors Fund, which is authorized to distribute up to $100,000 a month in U.S. funds to individual provincial leaders for use on local expenses and development projects. In some provinces, it says, "this amount represents a tidal wave of funding" that local officials are incapable of "spending wisely."


Al-Jazeera points out that, according to the World Bank, 97 percent of Afghanistan's GDP is linked to international military forces and donors. The country is currently the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid.

The report casts a critical eye on U.S. use of international contractors in its nation-building efforts, sometimes bypassing the Afghan government in favor of these firms.To remedy this, the report advises that salary constraints be enforced on these international donor firms, so that they cannot draw "otherwise qualified civil servants" away from the Afghan government, which has fewer staffing resources. It suggests too that donors "not implement projects if Afghans cannot sustain them."

Although this report (available in full on pdf here ) does not specifically address military aid, it has been released during a time of tense debate about how fast to begin withdrawing the 100,000 US troops currently stationed in Afghanistan. The chairman of the Armed Services Committee, Sen. Carl Levin, called Tuesday for at least 15,000 combat soldiers to be withdrawn by the end of the year, while Defense Secretary Robert Gates has advised a slower, more modest decrease.



I am rather stunned by the figure that 97% of Afghanistan's GDP comes from foreign aid. I wonder if there has ever been a comparable situation in the history of the world.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
12 years ago

TUESDAY, MAY 31, 2011 07:32 ET
Afghanistan "sovereignty" 
BY GLENN GREENWALD

UserPostedImage
AP Photo/Musadeq Sadeq
Afghan President Hamid Karzai gestures during a press conference at the presidential palace in Kabul, Afghanistan on Tuesday, May 31, 2011.

A spate of horrific civilian killings by NATO in Afghanistan has led Afghan President Hamid Karzai to demand that NATO cease all air attacks on homes. That is likely to be exactly as significant as you think it would be, as The Los Angeles Times makes clear:

"This should be the last attack on people's houses," the president told a news conference in Kabul. "Such attacks will no longer be allowed."

Karzai's call was viewed as mainly symbolic. Western military officials cited existing cooperation with Afghan authorities and pledged to continue consultations, but said privately that presidential authority does not include veto power over specific targeting decisions made in the heat of battle.



So we're in Afghanistan to bring Freedom and Democracy to the Afghan People, but the President of the country has no power whatsoever to tell us to stop bombing Afghan homes. His decrees are simply requests, merely "symbolic." Karzai, of course, is speaking not only for himself, but even more so for (and under pressure from) the Afghan People: the ones we're there to liberate, but who -- due to their strange, primitive, inscrutable culture and religion -- are bizarrely angry about being continuously liberated from their lives: "Karzai's statements . . . underscored widespread anger among Afghans over the deaths of noncombatants at the hands of foreign forces."

Indeed, the Afghan People -- on whose behalf we are fighting so valiantly -- are total ingrates and simply do not appreciate all that we're doing for them. A poll of Afghan men released earlier this month by the International Council on Security and Development found overwhelming opposition to NATO operations in their country. First there was this in Southern Afghanistan, where most of the fighting has taken place and where we are liberating residents from Taliban tyranny:
UserPostedImage

Then there's this from Northern Afghanistan, long said to be the region most sympathetic to NATO's fighting:
UserPostedImage

The Taliban is widely unpopular among Afghans (though in the South, a majority oppose military operations against them); but whatever else is true, 8 out of 10 men, spread throughout all regions of that country, believe that NATO operations are bad for the Afghan people.

So the decisions of the Afghan President are totally irrelevant (when it conflicts with what we want). The views of the Afghan People are equally irrelevant. But we're there to bring them Freedom and Democracy (while we decree their elected leaders' decisions "merely mainly symbolic") and are fighting for their own good (even though virtually none of them recognize that). What a great war, now America's longest and close to a decade old.


UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
12 years ago

SATURDAY, JUN 4, 2011 11:01 ET
WAR ROOM
The Gitmo no one talks about
 
BY JUSTIN ELLIOTT

UserPostedImage
AP/Dar Yasin

President Obama has presided over a threefold increase in the number of detainees being held at the controversial military detention center at Bagram Air Base, the Afghan cousin of the notorious prison at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base in Cuba. It's the latest piece of news that almost certainly would be getting more attention -- especially from Democrats -- if George W. Bush were still president.

There are currently more than 1,700 detainees at Bagram, up from over 600 at the end of the Bush administration.

The situation at Bagram, especially the legal process that determines whether detainees are released, is the subject of a new report by Human Rights First. It finds that the current system of hearings for detainees "falls short of the requirements of international law" because they are not given "an adequate opportunity to defend themselves against charges that they are collaborating with insurgents and present a threat to U.S. forces." Human Rights First also argues that cases of unjustified imprisonment are damaging the broader war effort by undermining Afghans' trust in the military

I spoke to the author of the report, Daphne Eviatar, a senior associate in the law and security program at Human Rights First who traveled to Bagram to observe the situation first-hand. The following transcript of our conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

So to start with the basics, what is Bagram and what is its purpose?

It's a U.S. military detention center in Afghanistan that, like the Guantanamo detention center in Cuba, is on a military base. People who are sent there now are being picked up in Afghanistan. When it was first opened in 2001, there were some detainees brought in from other countries as well. The military has said that stopped in recent years. By the end of the Bush administration, there were about 600 or 650 detainees being held there. There are now more than 1,700.

What do we know about who the detainees are and why they were sent to Bagram?

We know that these are people who have been captured by the U.S. military during the war in Afghanistan or during the broader war on terror. The people who have been sent there recently were largely picked up during so-called night raids. The military will go into villages where they believe there are Taliban and raid a house. They take all the men out, and put the women and children in a separate area. If the soldiers find weapons when they search the house, the men are likely to be detained, and they may end up being sent from the village to Bagram. Some of those people end up being held at Bagram for years.

What legal status do the detainees at Bagram have? Are they prisoners of war?

The U.S. doesn't call any of the prisoners we keep in the context of the war on terror -- including Afghanistan -- "prisoners of war." They're called "unprivileged belligerents" which means that they don't have POW status. That's because we're at war with organizations like the Taliban or al-Qaida rather than a country or official government. But these detainees are supposedly being held under the rules of armed conflict.

What does this mean in practice about what sort of legal process they face and what rights these detainees have?

It depends who you ask. There are no laws under the rules of war governing how you treat detainees in this kind of armed conflict. So the position of most other civilized nations, most European commissions and human rights bodies is that international human rights laws should apply. The U.S. government says that those laws don't apply beyond its own borders, and therefore no laws apply.

Early on at Bagram, there were terrible abuses. There were reports of people being killed in custody and tortured. We believe that is not happening anymore. There is still something called the black jail at Bagram, what the government calls a "screening facility." It's called the black jail because there are no windows and no natural light, and no one knows what time of day it is. The conditions there are much worse than at the main prison. People who have been at the black jail complain of being strip-searched in humiliating ways, being subjected to extreme cold temperatures, lights on 24 hours a day, and not having a mattress. But still nothing as bad as the kind of torture that was reported early on.

You went to Afghanistan and attended some of the hearings for Bagram detainees. How does this all work and what did you find?

They are supposed to get a hearing on their detention after 60 days and then at six months and every six months after. The hearings sound good on paper but then when you actually attend them -- I hate to use the cliché -- it's Kafkaesque. They're not allowed to see much of the evidence against them because it's classified. So a military person will stand up and read the charges -- say that the detainee was found to be an IED maker. And the accused will say, "Well what is the evidence against me?" And the military won't produce it because it's classified. The accused does not get a lawyer; they get what's called a personal representative. That's a field-grade soldier who is assigned to represent a detainee -- but they have no legal training beyond a 35-hour course. Many former detainees told me they did not trust their representatives, who are uniformed soldiers. And at least in the public sessions, we did not see the representatives ever challenge evidence. There are also classified sessions, where we of course don't know what happens.

So what are the biggest problems at Bagram in your view?

The biggest is that it's not at all clear the military is getting the right people. They often depend on tips from unnamed informants who are unreliable or have a personal ax to grind. I wrote in the report about one man who was in detention for a year and a half before he was able to get his hands on court documents showing that he was in a dispute with another man who he thought might be his accuser. When he brought those documents into one of the hearings, he was finally released -- the implication being that the military realized its informant was giving bad information to promote his own interests.

Are there specific changes you'd like to see at Bagram?

The two biggest are to improve the representation for detainees and to reduce the reliance on classified evidence. Because really those things amount to detainees not being able to defend themselves. Even if the personal representative has access to the classified evidence, he can't tell his client what it is. So you really need someone with legal training who understands how to work within those limitations and to fight to declassify evidence.

And there are two reasons to do this. One is fairness and due process. The other is that eventually these detainees will be released and go back to their villages. You don't want these men going back and saying, "I was imprisoned by the U.S. military for three years for no reason." That's a good way to breed animosity among the local population.

Justin Elliott is a Salon reporter. Reach him by email at jelliott@salon.com and follow him on Twitter @ElliottJustin More: Justin Elliott


UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
12 years ago

THURSDAY, MAY 19, 2011 17:01 ET
WAR ROOM
Why can't we learn from our mistakes in Afghanistan?
 
BY TOM ENGELHARDT

UserPostedImage
AP Photo/Rahmat Gul
An unidentified U.S. soldier is seen at the scene of a suicide attack in Jalalabad, Afghanistan on Wednesday, May 18, 2011


This originally appeared on TomDispatch .

One day in October 2001, a pilot for Northwest Airlines refused to let Arshad Chowdhury, a 25-year-old American Muslim ("with a dark complexion") who had once worked as an investment banker in the World Trade Center, board his plane at San Francisco National Airport. According to Northwest's gate agents, Chowdhury writes in the Washington Post, "he thought my name sounded suspicious" even though "airport security and the FBI verified that I posed no threat." He sued.

Now, skip nearly a decade. It's May 6, 2011, and two New York-based African-American imams, a father and son, attempting to take an American Airlines flight from New York to Charlotte to attend a conference on "prejudice against Muslims," were prevented from flying. The same thing happened to two imams in Memphis "dressed in traditional long shirts and [with] beard," heading for the same conference, when a pilot for Atlantic Southeast refused to fly with them aboard, even though they had been screened three times.

So how is the war in Afghanistan going almost 10 years later? Or do you think that's a non sequitur?

I don't, and let me suggest two reasons why: first, boredom; second, the missing learning curve.

At home and abroad, whether judging by airline pilots or Washington's war policy, Americans seem remarkably incapable of doing anything other than repeating the same self-defeating acts, as if they had never happened before. Hence Afghanistan. Almost 10 years after the Bush administration invaded Afghanistan and proclaimed victory, like imam-paralyzed airline pilots, we find ourselves in a state that might otherwise be achieved only if you mated deja vu with a Mobius strip.

If you aren't already bored to death, you should be. Because, believe me, you've read it all before. Take the last month of news from America's second Afghan War. If nobody told you otherwise, you could easily believe that almost every breaking Afghan story in the last four weeks came from some previous year of the war.

Headlines from the Dustbin of History (Afghan Department)

Let me explain with seven headlines ripped from the news, all of which sit atop Afghan War articles that couldn't be newer -- or older. Each represents news of our moment that was also news in previous moments; each should leave Americans wondering about Washington's learning curve.

* "Pentagon reports 'tangible progress' in Afghanistan": Here, the headline tells you everything you need to know. Things are going remarkably swimmingly, according to a recent congressionally mandated Pentagon report (which cost a mere $344,259 to produce). How many times in recent years has the military claimed "progress" in Afghanistan, with the usual carefully placed reservations about the fragility or reversibility of the situation? (Oh, and how many times have U.S. intelligence reports been far gloomier on the same subject?)

* "Afghan violence rises amid troop surge -- Pentagon": The information that led to this headline came, curiously enough, from that very same upbeat Pentagon report. As the Reuters piece to which this headline was attached put it: "A surge of U.S. troops into Afghanistan has dealt a blow to the Taliban insurgency, but total violence has risen since last fall and is likely to keep climbing, the Pentagon said on Friday in a new assessment of the war as it approaches its 10-year mark." This spring, insurgent attacks have reportedly been up about 80% compared to the previous year, which might be more startling if the rise-in-violence piece weren't a longtime staple of Afghan War reportage.

Are you bored to death yet? No, then I'll keep going.

* "Audit: Afghans don't know how many police on rolls": The news embedded in this headline is that a recent audit by the U.S. special inspector general for Afghanistan has found that some of the $10 billion a year being poured into training, building up, and supplying Afghanistan's security forces is undoubtedly missing-in-action. The IG reports that "the country's police rolls and payrolls cannot be verified because of poor record keeping," which means that the numbers "for all practical purposes become somewhat fictitious." Put another way, the U.S. and its coalition partners are undoubtedly paying "ghost" policemen.

This story could be paired with a recent Reuters piece, "Pentagon's rosy report of Afghanistan war raises questions," which points out that, despite the billions of dollars and years of time invested in mentoring Afghanistan's security forces, "there are currently no Afghan National Police units that are able to operate independently." In addition, even that recent "rosy" Pentagon report indicates that so many Afghan soldiers are deserting -- six out of every 10 new recruits -- as to imperil the goal of creating a massive army capable of taking over security duties in the next several years. It has also been difficult to find enough trainers for the program, and given all of the above, experts suspect that the country will not have an effective army in place by 2014.

But here's the thing: such reports about the massive training program for Afghan security forces, the inability of those forces to operate independently, the wholesale desertions continually suffered, and so on have appeared again and again and again over the last years.

* "With bin Laden dead, some escalate push for new Afghan strategy": Here's the only problem with that "new Afghan strategy" reportedly being debated in Washington -- it's not new. It's drearily old. In fact, it's simply a replay on the downhill slide of bitter policy arguments in the fall of 2009 involving Washington policymakers and the U.S. military. That was a moment when the Obama administration had set about reassessing Afghan strategy and trying to choose between counterinsurgency ("the surge") and what was then called "counterterrorism plus" (more drones and more trainers, but less combat troops).

Then the debate was narrow indeed -- between more (an increase of 40,000 troops) and more (an increase of 20,000 troops). There was never a real "less" option. Today, with almost 100,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan and despite reports of "war fatigue," even among Congressional Republicans, as well as plummeting poll numbers among Americans generally, the new debate is similarly narrow, similarly focused, and deeply familiar, a kind of less-versus-less version of the more-versus-more duke-em-out of 2009.

Similar arguments, similar crew. Then, Vice President Biden spearheaded the counterterrorism-plus option; today, it's chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee John Kerry, who quickly made the parameters of the "new" strategy debate clear: "I do not know of any serious policy person who believes that a unilateral precipitous withdrawal from Afghanistan would somehow serve our interests or anybody's interests. I do not believe that is a viable option."

As in the fall of 2009, agreement among "serious policy people" that there should be a continuing American "footprint" in Afghanistan is set in stone. It seems the only question on the table is how small and how slow the drawdown should be, with the debaters already evidently settling into an agreed upon endgame of 20,000 to 30,000 American troops, special operations forces, and trainers post-2014. Despite the president's promise of significant troop reductions this year, early hints about war commander General David Petraeus' recommendations indicate that as few as 10,000 may be withdrawn, with no combat troops among them (though pressure to increase those numbers is rising).

Not out of your mind with boredom yet? Then I'll keep at it.

* "Accusations of Corruption Rampant in Afghanistan": Here's the thing: you don't even need to know the details of the story that lies behind that NPR headline. Yes, Vermont representative Peter Welsh has called on Congress to investigate Afghan corruption, given the billions the U.S. is squandering there; yes, the Afghan deputy attorney general admitted that he had arrest warrants for various high officials on corruption charges but feared trying to bring them in; yes, headlines like "Afghan war progress at risk from corruption, training lags" are commonplace these days, as are stories about "reconstruction" corruption, protection payoffs to unsavory local warlords or the Taliban, and staggering levels of corruption in and around the government of Afghan President Hamid Karzai. But here's the thing: it's been that way for years. Corruption stories -- and stories about fighting corruption or the need to force the government of Hamid Karzai to do the same -- have been the essential bread and butter of Afghan war reporting for almost a decade.

* "For Second Time in 3 Days, NATO Raid Kills Afghan Child": The New York Times piece under this headline reports on how "NATO" night raiders (usually U.S. special operations forces) killed a 15-year-old boy, the son of an Afghan National Army soldier, sleeping in his family fields with a shotgun beside him. In the incident two days earlier the headline alludes to, another crew of night raiders killed a 12-year-old girl sleeping in her backyard, as well as her uncle, an Afghan police officer. And who's even mentioning the eight private security guards killed in an air strike as May began?

As it happens, however, from the moment that a B-52 and two B-1B bombers, using precision-guided weapons, destroyed a village wedding party in December 2001, killing 110 out of 112 revelers (only the first of numerous wedding parties to be blown away during these years), such civilian casualties have been the drumbeat behind the war. The Afghan dead -- slaughtered by Taliban suicide bombers and IEDs as well -- have risen in a charnel heap high above those of September 11, 2001.

Accompanying such stories over the years have been passages like this one from the Times piece: "When morning came, an angry crowd gathered in Narra, the boy's village, and more than 200 people marched with his body to the district center. Some of the men were armed and confronted the police, shouting anti-American slogans and throwing rocks at police vehicles and the... government center, according to the district governor and the [local school] headmaster."

This is the never-ending story of the war, the one whose only variations involve whether, faced with such deaths, U.S. military spokespeople will stonewall and deny, launch an "investigation" that goes nowhere, or offer a pro forma apology. When it came to the death of that girl recently, an apology was indeed issued, but her father made the essential point: "They killed my 12-year-old daughter and my brother-in-law and then told me, 'We are sorry.' What does it mean? What pain can be cured by this word 'sorry'?"

Rogue War

When it comes to the Afghan War, there are other news stories of the present moment that were also the Afghan news of 2006, 2008, and 2010. There's even the newest hot set of rumors about U.S. attempts to open negotiations with the Taliban, whose last iteration ended when American officials discovered that the Taliban "senior commander" they had flown to Kabul was actually a clever impostor (who made off with a pile of money). But let's consider just one more story, the seventh headline of this moment, versions of which have headlined many other moments in these years, and ask whether there isn't something -- anything at all -- new to be learned from it.

* "Afghan officer fires on NATO troops, kills 9": This was breaking news when it happened. On April 25th, a veteran Afghan air force pilot, armed with two weapons and in a specially guarded and secure area of Kabul airport, suddenly opened fire on a group of Americans evidently involved in a training program for Afghan pilots. He gunned down eight U.S. Air Force personnel, including a lieutenant colonel, four majors, two captains, and a master sergeant, as well as a private contractor (himself a retired U.S. military officer) before being killed. It was "the deadliest episode to date of an Afghan turning against his own coalition partners." But hardly the only one. In a sense, this was no news at all. It was already at least the fourth time in 2011 that someone dressed in an Afghan army or police uniform had turned a weapon on U.S. or NATO personnel. Among such incidents was one just three weeks earlier in which a man wearing a border police uniform, reportedly "upset over the recent burning of the Quran at a Florida church," killed two Americans, and another in February in which an Afghan soldier, reportedly "offended by his German partners," killed three of them, wounding yet more.

By military count, since March 2009, 17 such incidents have been reported. Since the mass killing at Kabul airport, there has already been an 18th in which, according to sketchy reports, a man in an Afghan police uniform opened fire on two NATO personnel at a "luncheon" in Helmand Province in the country's embattled south. In such incidents, at least 34 Americans have died. (Not counted in this total, evidently, is an incident in January 2010 in which a Taliban double or triple agent blew himself up amid a group of CIA employees on a forward operating base in Eastern Afghanistan, killing seven of them, including the station chief.)

Such incidents pile up repetitively, without adding up to anything of significance here. Yes, the literal math has been done and it should be striking, even shocking, to Americans, and yet these news stories seldom get much attention and have already fallen into a he said/he said pattern in which the only crucial question becomes: Was the killer a Taliban plant or a "rogue" member of the Afghan security forces? As soon as such an attack occurs, the Taliban -- which has made striking strides in entering the modern age of media spin -- promptly takes credit for it, claiming that whoever blew away a coalition soldier was one of its own and the incident a carefully planned operation.

It's easy to understand why the Taliban would want to associate itself with such events. Harder to grasp -- though no reporter seems to give it a second thought -- is the U.S./NATO response. Their spokespeople regularly hustle out statements insisting that whoever attacked U.S. or coalition personnel was not connected to the Taliban, but simply having a truly bad day/life (experiencing, say, financial or psychological stress) and that, as a result, the incident was an "isolated" one, "not part of any organized pattern," or as an American general summed it up to reporters, "rare." And yet the phenomenon turns out to be common enough that the military has a label for it: "green-on-blue" violence.

Consider this, though: Is the thought that the enemy is capable of repeatedly infiltrating American or NATO ranks really more devastating than the thought that, on a really bad day, "our" Afghans, the ones we are training or regularly working side-by-side with, have a deep-seated, repetitive urge to blow the foreigners away? That seems to me the devastating message U.S. military officials are rushing to reinforce.

Can you, in fact, even come up with a comparable historical situation? Admittedly, when weaponry is everywhere, war is the subject, and hair-trigger is the attitude, people can die in all sorts of ways, as "fragging" incidents in the U.S. military in the Vietnam era indicated. (There was, in fact, one such incident at a military base in Kuwait as the invasion of Iraq began and, more recently of course, a disturbed Army psychiatrist, Major Nidal Hasan, went on a rampage, killing 13 people at Fort Hood in Texas.)

Still, where else is there such a record of police and military personnel blowing away their own trainers and ostensible allies so often? Isn't it possible that all those "rogues" are offering a collective message Americans simply don't care to hear?

Despite the almost unbroken and certainly repetitive record of three decades of war and destruction, there are undoubtedly new stories to be found under the Afghan sun (as well as across the border in roiling Pakistan). It's just that you aren't likely to find them in American war coverage, in part because you aren't likely to find them in American strategic or tactical thinking.

Perhaps the real question is this: What does it tell us when neither a new policy thought nor a new story can come out of a disastrous war almost 10 years old?

What does it mean when a great power proves incapable of learning anything from its own past actions? What does it mean when you can't think creatively or reimagine the world in a land that has so often been referred to as "the graveyard of empire"? Is it really so hard to guess?

And by the way, is anybody bored to death yet? Then, what if, for the sake of having one new story to write, we decided to come home?

Tom Engelhardt, co-founder of the American Empire Project, runs the Nation Institute's TomDispatch.com. His latest book, "The American Way of War: How Bush's Wars Became Obama's" (Haymarket Books), has just been published.


UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
12 years ago

SUNDAY, MAY 15, 2011 06:16 ET
They hate us for our freedoms 
BY GLENN GREENWALD

(updated below - Update II - Update III [Mon.])

The New York Times reports today:

For the second time in three days, a night raid in eastern Afghanistan by NATO forces resulted in the death of a child, setting off protests on Saturday that turned violent and ended in the death of a second boy. . . .

"American forces did an operation and mistakenly killed a fourth-grade student; he had gone to sleep in his field and had a shotgun next to him," [the district's governor, Abdul Khalid]. said. "People keep shotguns with them for hunting, not for any other purposes," Mr. Khalid said.

The boy, [15], was the son of an Afghan National Army soldier . . . When morning came, an angry crowd gathered in Narra, the boy’s village, and more than 200 people marched with his body to the district center. Some of the men were armed and confronted the police, shouting anti-American slogans . . .

The police opened fire in an effort to push back the crowd to stop its advance to the district center. A 14-year-old boy was killed, and at least one other person was wounded, Mr. Khalid said. . . .

On Thursday, a night raid by international forces in Nangahar Province resulted in the death of a 12-year-old girl and her uncle, who was a member of the Afghan National Police.


There's nothing much new to say here, but every now and then, it's worth highlighting not only what we're doing, but what the results are. Just imagine the accumulated hatred from having things like this happen day after day, week after week, year after year, for a full decade now, with no end in sight -- broadcast all over the region. It's literally impossible to convey in words the level of bloodthirsty fury and demands for vengeance that would arise if a foreign army were inside the U.S. killing innocent American children even a handful of times, let alone continuously for a full decade.

It's the perfect self-perpetuating cycle: (1) They hate us and want to attack us because we're over there; therefore, (2) we have to stay and proliferate ourselves because they hate us and want to attack us; (3) our staying and proliferating ourselves makes them hate us and want to attack us more; therefore, (4) we can never leave, because of how much they hate us and want to attack us. The beauty of this War on Terror -- and, as the last two weeks have demonstrated, War is the bipartisan consensus for what we are and should be doing to address Terrorism -- is that it forever sustains its own ostensible cause.

UPDATE: When President Obama explained to the nation (after the fact) why he committed the armed forces to Libya, he declared that the U.S. must not "stand idly by" in the face of violent assaults on unarmed civilians. Today:

Violence erupted on Israel's borders with Syria, Lebanon and Gaza on Sunday, leaving at least eight dead and dozens wounded . . . Israeli troops shot at protesters in three separate locations to prevent crowds from crossing Israeli frontier lines in the deadliest such confrontation in years.


In other words, Israeli troops opened fire on unarmed protesters on three separate borders today (and other reports now suggest higher numbers of people shot). The protesters were reportedly attempting to infiltrate Israeli territory in commemoration of the annual Palestinian protest of Israel, but by all accounts were unarmed, and some were shot at on their side of their border. Will the U.S. stand "idly by" while this happens, or . . . issue a statement in ringing support of Israeli actions? Sadly, there is no plausible third alternative, and that, too, may shed some light on "why they hate us."

UPDATE II: For a succinct exhibit of the actual meaning of Freedom when exploited to justify wars, see here .


UPDATE III [Mon.]:
If this newest report from Reuters today is confirmed, it will be the third time in four days that NATO has killed an Afghan child:

Foreign troops killed an Afghan child and wounded four others when responding to insurgent fire in volatile eastern Kunar province, the provincial Governor said on Monday, the third accidental killing of young civilians in less than a week. . . .

Fazlullah Wahidi, governor of Kunar, said a group of girls had been collecting firewood near an insurgent hideout and were struck when ISAF troops that had come under attack returned fire. A 10-year-old girl was killed, and four others wounded.


I wonder what would happen if a foreign army came to the U.S. and killed three American children in four days. Why do they hate us?


UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
12 years ago
I am ready for an exit from this place. But when we leave it will be a mess for 100 years and of course they will blame us every single day.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (24m) : Jets and Aaron Rodgers open up on Monday Night Football,
Zero2Cool (16h) : $170 guaranteed. This might impact Jordan Love
Zero2Cool (16h) : Lions are signing QB Jared Goff to a four-year, $212 million extension
Zero2Cool (19h) : I know we moved on. That tidbit just makes me a touch happier.
Zero2Cool (19h) : Sources spoke of many, many times last summer where Hackett called a play, then Rodgers changed it completely at the line
Martha Careful (10-May) : 1. this is true of all our linemen. 2. His run block is fine. 3. If all OL played like he has, we would win SB.
beast (10-May) : Meyers pass blocking is really good, his run blocking is really not.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : Packers have claimed DE Spencer Waege off of waivers from the 49ers and waived DT Rodney Mathews.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : And the OL protections seem to be good.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : I really don't know lol. I don't see him getting blown up.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : -3 buwahhhahaaha
Mucky Tundra (9-May) : 4th
Zero2Cool (9-May) : because he's 1st
Mucky Tundra (9-May) : Myers isn't even the 3rd best C on the roster atm
Martha Careful (9-May) : I am not sure I understand the Myers hate. He was consistently our third best lineman. RG and LT were worse.
beast (9-May) : Just saying I don't think moving Myers would help Myers.
beast (9-May) : Center is usually considered the easiest position physically if you can handle the snap stuff.
Mucky Tundra (8-May) : Bust it is then
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Context. Sounds like Myers won't be cross-trained. C or bust.
Mucky Tundra (8-May) : @BookOfEli_NFL Packers pass game coordinator, Jason Vrable said that Jayden Reed and Dontayvion Wicks shared a placed in Florida while train
Mucky Tundra (8-May) : For now...
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers go about evaluating their "best five," OL coach Luke Butkus makes on thing clear: "Josh Myers is our center."
beast (8-May) : Though I'm a bit surprised letting go of CBs, I thought we needed more not less
beast (8-May) : It was confusing with two DB Anthony Johnson anyways
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers actually had Ray Lewis on the phone.
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers wanted to draft Ray Lewis. Ravens stole him.
Martha Careful (6-May) : Happy 93rd Birthday to the Greatest Baseball Player of All-Time...Willie Mays
Zero2Cool (6-May) : Walter Stanely's son
buckeyepackfan (6-May) : and released CB Anthony Johnson and DL Deandre Johnson and waived/injured WR Thyrick Pitts (thigh-rick).
buckeyepackfan (6-May) : The Green Bay Packers have signed WR Julian Hicks, OL Lecitus Smith (luh-SEET-us) and WR Dimitri Stanley
Zero2Cool (6-May) : Petty, but it's annoying me how the NFL is making the schedule release an event.
Mucky Tundra (4-May) : @mattschneidman Matt LaFleur on how he tore his pec: “Got in a fight with the bench press. I lost.”
Zero2Cool (3-May) : Jordan Love CAN sign an extension as of today. Might tak weeks/months though
TheKanataThrilla (3-May) : Packers decline 5th year option for Stokes
Mucky Tundra (3-May) : @ProFootballTalk Jaylen Warren: Steelers' special teams coach has discussed Justin Fields returning kicks.
Zero2Cool (2-May) : Season officially ending tonight for Bucks ... sad face
Zero2Cool (2-May) : Giannis Antetokounmpo is listed as out for tonight's game.
dfosterf (2-May) : Surprisingly low initially is my guess cap wise, but gonna pay the piper after that
dfosterf (2-May) : The number on Love is going to be brutal.
Zero2Cool (2-May) : May 3rd. Extension day for Jordan Love. (soonest)
Zero2Cool (1-May) : USFL MVP QB Alex McGough moved to WR. So that's why no WR drafted!
earthquake (1-May) : Packers draft starters at safety ever few years. Collins, Clinton-Dix, Savage
beast (1-May) : Why can't the rookies be a day 1 starter? Especially when we grabbed 3 of them at the position
dfosterf (1-May) : Not going to be shocked if Gilmore goes to the Lions.
dfosterf (1-May) : I hear you dhazer, but my guess would be Gilmore Colts and Howard Vikings from what little has been reported.
Mucky Tundra (30-Apr) : S learn from McKinney who learns from Hafley who learns from the fans. Guaranteed Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (30-Apr) : could*
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Safeties should learn from Xavier.
dhazer (29-Apr) : And what about grabbing a Gilmore or Howard at CB ? Those are all Free Agents left
dhazer (29-Apr) : out of curiosity do they try and sign Simmons or Hyde to let these young safeties learn from, they can't be day 1 starters.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Recent Topics
25m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

14h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dhazer

13-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

12-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

11-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

10-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

10-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

9-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

7-May / Packers Draft Threads / Mucky Tundra

7-May / Packers Draft Threads / Mucky Tundra

5-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.