Packers_Finland
12 years ago

Jerel Worthy if he is there.. Peter Konz is another choice. Personally I would like to shore up our interior pressure on defense... Worthy would do that.. not a ever snap player but a beast of a player. Raji and him paired up.. ouch.

Then Worthy went and had a great pro day.. screwed it up possibly. lol.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I absolutely believe we HAVE to get a 3-4 OLB with our first pick and there most definitely will be a suitable player avaivable. Nick Perry, or failing that, Andre Branch. Failing that Vinny Curry. All three fit the range we're picking in.

As much as added interior pressure helps, we have to make sure we have exterior pressure first.
This is a placeholder
Pack93z
12 years ago

I absolutely believe we HAVE to get a 3-4 OLB with our first pick and there most definitely will be a suitable player available. Nick Perry, or failing that, Andre Branch. Failing that Vinny Curry. All three fit the range we're picking in.

As much as added interior pressure helps, we have to make sure we have exterior pressure first.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland 



I will disagree, the best and most effective way to open up the overall pressure applied to a passer is to bring pressure from the inside. By do that, you shift protection to the shortest route and allow your edge rushers, not to mention your interior blitz packages, to open up into one on one battles and further more, your tackles will have a read to make and will provide a softer edge for your players to attack.

Thus you can make it easier for the edge players in which you can survive with serviceable players in place of blue chip talent.

The trick is there aren't a good number of 3-4 downs that can supply pressure from the interior.. if you get a shot at one, you take it and hold it.

The Steelers, for example, are going to start to see just how important a Smith was on the interior of that line; just as we seen with Jenkins last season. Interior pressure is the ultimate disruptive force.. while it can be done with perimeter pass rush, it takes a pair of blue chippers on the edge to get it done; it still allows for a passer to step into a pocket and throw the ball.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Packers_Finland
12 years ago
I can name loads and loads of teams that have had dominant pass rushes with studs on the edge and only serviceable guys on the inside. Many more than I, you, or anyone else for that matter could name teams that had domintant inside guys, and only serviceable guys on the edge, and still have a dominant pass rush. Having both would be the obvious ideal solution.

As for the Steelers, Aaron Smith has missed a ton of games in the last few years, yet the output of Woodley and Harrison has remained largely unchanged... so I kind of think your point regarding that is invalid.
This is a placeholder
PackerTraxx
12 years ago
I believe we have a good shot at getting an OLB with the first pick. Some how I hope we can also get a DE that can pressure. Then Raji can stay in the middle and get pressure there, which he has shown he can do.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
Pack93z
12 years ago

I can name loads and loads of teams that have had dominant pass rushes with studs on the edge and only serviceable guys on the inside. Many more than I, you, or anyone else for that matter could name teams that had domintant inside guys, and only serviceable guys on the edge, and still have a dominant pass rush. Having both would be the obvious ideal solution.

As for the Steelers, Aaron Smith has missed a ton of games in the last few years, yet the output of Woodley and Harrison has remained largely unchanged... so I kind of think your point regarding that is invalid.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland 



Albeit I was focused on 3-4 defensive alignments.. we can expand this further into 4-3 alignments as well.

First.. define dominate pass rushes from a team aspect, name the last one?

IMO, There hasn't been a dominate pass rush team in the league for a number of years. There are particular players (Ware, Derrick Thomas, Allen, Freeney, Strahan for examples) but nothing close a dominate pass rush. Blitzburg for example hasn't been the same since Smith and Hampton have fallen off some.. sure Keisel has stepped in, but IMO, he isn't the same type of player that a (healthy) Smith was to the Steelers.

Some of that is from free agent parity, some of that is the game has changed.

The closest thing to a dominate pass rush last season was the Giants, Ravens and the 49ers (not sacks but affect on QBs and the offense), what did both have, guys that could pressure from inside where it truly disrupts an offense. If you can get a pass rush up the middle, it forces the offense to move the pocket. For most QB's that limits the amount of the field that is available to them... thus giving the defense the advantage back.

Where as edge pressure, you can help scheme against it to minimize the effectiveness of it.. chips, reducing the QB's drop, having the tackles push the rusher up the field.. in these scenarios most of the field is still available to the QB and offense and reduces the advantage the pressure gives the defense.

IMO, a "stud" pass rusher, one whom can truly create pressure on his own in an array of ways, is rare in either spot.. inside or out. IMO, Worthy is the type of kid that can cause interior pressure on an offense.

In a 3-4, interior pressure is gold, see the other Smith (Justin) and just how important he was to the Niners. Or Jenkins to us and how it exposed our lack of pass rush from the edge with developing players.

Look.. I agree with you.. it is more common to find edge pass rushers who flash on speed alone and eventually get figured out. But I will disagree that it is a more effective pressure to generate and how it affects the offense.

I would settle for edge pressure if that is all that is there.. but I think enough of Worthy in watching him in the Big Ten yearly that he can supply what I deem as more effective pressure, what expands the blitz calls for a Defensive Coordinator and what boosts the overall effectiveness of the players around them.. interior pressure.

That was my point.. not quantity, but the affect it has on an offense. I wish we could ask a QB..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Packers_Finland
12 years ago
I agree with most of what you said. A truly dominant pass rush will have both great inside and outside guys (though I would disagree on the Giants part as Canty was very overrated and Linval Joseph was a liability up the middle. JPP, Tuck, Umenyiora and Kiwanuka made that pass rush purely off the edge).

But, to fix our 3-4 pass rush right now, I think it would be more important to get an OLB first, DE second. I'm not saying we don't need both, but that OLB is by far the more pressing need. And that is simply because I feel a first round pick would be a considerably larger improvement over Walden/Jones/Zombo than over Neal/Wilson/Wynn. I would rather not have any of those guys starting, but if I had to eliminate one group of guys from seeing the field and replacing him with a stud, it would be the OLBs.

As for Worthy, well yeah, he's going to be higher on the board (deservedly) than any OLB we would see at that point. But it would be like saying the Dolphins would rather take Luck than Tannehill, there's no choice since that guy isn't going to be there.
This is a placeholder
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
12 years ago
I have to give the nod to Pack93. You get a big boy on the DL who crumbles the OL and gets his hand in the face of the QB and even I can cover the receiver.

OLB is a need. DL is a "bigger" need.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
12 years ago



As for Worthy, well yeah, he's going to be higher on the board (deservedly) than any OLB we would see at that point. But it would be like saying the Dolphins would rather take Luck than Tannehill, there's no choice since that guy isn't going to be there.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland 



I have seen the draft rating on Worthy anywhere from a 1st to 3rd round.. all I am saying is if he slips, damn skippy you draft him. I think the biggest knock is his conditioning and the number of snaps he can take in a game. MSU didn't pull him out because they wanted to.. he had to come to the sideline and rest a little more often than others.

Examples..

CBS 27th player  on the board.

Your site.. Walter  not in the first round.

ESPN 32  on the big board.

CNNSI 25th  to Denver.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Packers_Finland
12 years ago
I give much more credibility to Mike Mayock saying he will be drafted before the 25th pick than any of those guys.

All that said, I'd rather take Andre Branch at our pick if he's avaivable than Jerel Worthy. But Worthy would definitely not be a bad pick. I believe we'll fix this team's pass rush better in the short-term with a first round OLB than a first round DE. Long-term, who knows really.
This is a placeholder
Pack93z
12 years ago

I give much more credibility to Mike Mayock saying he will be drafted before the 25th pick than any of those guys.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland 



Mayock  has him as the 4th rated tackle in the draft.. with Still rising at 5..

Worthy had a great pro day which drew attention.. and yes probably has him off the board by our pick.

The guy that has me wondering is Dontari Poe.... he posts great workout numbers but his production on the field doesn't mesh with that consistently. Is he that workout bust or a player just hitting his stride?

Another concern with those edge rushers coming out.. seems like there is a higher number that bust out rather than boom. IMO, speed fools at the college level.. makes those edge guys flash more on tape.

For ever Miller there seems to be a handful fulls of Maybin's, Aaron Curry's and Golston's to match.

In the end.. I careless how they address the concern of pass rush this season.. just fill it and go.


I just know how I would prefer it. 😉
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (8h) : Bust it is then
Zero2Cool (9h) : Context. Sounds like Myers won't be cross-trained. C or bust.
Mucky Tundra (10h) : @BookOfEli_NFL Packers pass game coordinator, Jason Vrable said that Jayden Reed and Dontayvion Wicks shared a placed in Florida while train
Mucky Tundra (10h) : For now...
Zero2Cool (11h) : Packers go about evaluating their "best five," OL coach Luke Butkus makes on thing clear: "Josh Myers is our center."
beast (14h) : Though I'm a bit surprised letting go of CBs, I thought we needed more not less
beast (14h) : It was confusing with two DB Anthony Johnson anyways
Zero2Cool (17h) : Packers actually had Ray Lewis on the phone.
Zero2Cool (17h) : Packers wanted to draft Ray Lewis. Ravens stole him.
Martha Careful (6-May) : Happy 93rd Birthday to the Greatest Baseball Player of All-Time...Willie Mays
Zero2Cool (6-May) : Walter Stanely's son
buckeyepackfan (6-May) : and released CB Anthony Johnson and DL Deandre Johnson and waived/injured WR Thyrick Pitts (thigh-rick).
buckeyepackfan (6-May) : The Green Bay Packers have signed WR Julian Hicks, OL Lecitus Smith (luh-SEET-us) and WR Dimitri Stanley
Zero2Cool (6-May) : Petty, but it's annoying me how the NFL is making the schedule release an event.
Mucky Tundra (4-May) : @mattschneidman Matt LaFleur on how he tore his pec: “Got in a fight with the bench press. I lost.”
Zero2Cool (3-May) : Jordan Love CAN sign an extension as of today. Might tak weeks/months though
TheKanataThrilla (3-May) : Packers decline 5th year option for Stokes
Mucky Tundra (3-May) : @ProFootballTalk Jaylen Warren: Steelers' special teams coach has discussed Justin Fields returning kicks.
Zero2Cool (2-May) : Season officially ending tonight for Bucks ... sad face
Zero2Cool (2-May) : Giannis Antetokounmpo is listed as out for tonight's game.
dfosterf (2-May) : Surprisingly low initially is my guess cap wise, but gonna pay the piper after that
dfosterf (2-May) : The number on Love is going to be brutal.
Zero2Cool (2-May) : May 3rd. Extension day for Jordan Love. (soonest)
Zero2Cool (1-May) : USFL MVP QB Alex McGough moved to WR. So that's why no WR drafted!
earthquake (1-May) : Packers draft starters at safety ever few years. Collins, Clinton-Dix, Savage
beast (1-May) : Why can't the rookies be a day 1 starter? Especially when we grabbed 3 of them at the position
dfosterf (1-May) : Not going to be shocked if Gilmore goes to the Lions.
dfosterf (1-May) : I hear you dhazer, but my guess would be Gilmore Colts and Howard Vikings from what little has been reported.
Mucky Tundra (30-Apr) : S learn from McKinney who learns from Hafley who learns from the fans. Guaranteed Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (30-Apr) : could*
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Safeties should learn from Xavier.
dhazer (29-Apr) : And what about grabbing a Gilmore or Howard at CB ? Those are all Free Agents left
dhazer (29-Apr) : out of curiosity do they try and sign Simmons or Hyde to let these young safeties learn from, they can't be day 1 starters.
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : I miss having Sam Shields.
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Not that he's making excuses, just pointing it out
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : That's for dang sure. Make our erratic kicker have no excuse!
packerfanoutwest (28-Apr) : having a great long snapper is gold
Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : LaFleur looking like he had some weight. Coachin will do that lol
Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : Thanks Mucky and whomever created topcos for each pick!
Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : Insane about Kingsley
dfosterf (28-Apr) : Putring it here so Mucky sees it. He was our guy!
dfosterf (28-Apr) : Bowden long snapper Wisconsin. Consensus best LS in college.
dfosterf (28-Apr) : We got Peter Bowde
dfosterf (28-Apr) : I personally interpret that as a partial tear that can be recovered from with rehab
dfosterf (28-Apr) : MLF said Kingsley Enagbare did NOT tear his ACL and did NOT require surgery, and that he is "looking good" for the 2024 season!
beast (28-Apr) : T.O. son signs with the 49ers
Mucky Tundra (28-Apr) : damn those vikings
beast (27-Apr) : UDFA Vikings sign TE – Trey Knox, South Carolina
beast (27-Apr) : Kitchen was all high from Miami, he was more lucky than talented in 2022 and it showed in 2023
beast (27-Apr) : Reportedly Packers have UDFAs Jennings and Jones
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2023 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
LIONS
Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
Raiders
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
CHARGERS
Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
CHIEFS
Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
Giants
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
Panthers
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
Cowboys
Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
49ers
Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

7-May / Packers Draft Threads / Mucky Tundra

7-May / Packers Draft Threads / Mucky Tundra

5-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / beast

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

5-May / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

4-May / Packers Draft Threads / bboystyle

4-May / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

3-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.