It was expected? Didn't both teams have identical records? Wasn't it billed as THE game of the season and possible Home field advantage. Maybe you expected us to lose but I don't think that was the general consensus.

And yes, NO is a mediocre team but did we get blown out by Carolina, or Atlanta or Tampa or Indy or Tennessee? We did not, NO was the exception, not the rule.

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You have said it yourself, over and over.

As most football fans on this forum have noted, Brett Favre does not play defense.

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There was once a U.S. Karate team consisted of 5 men who traveled to versus other national teams. They were 5 on 5, with individual fights and the winning team declared by the TOTAL points scored.

The U.S team consisted of 3 relative unknowns, relatively young and inexperienced, one seasoned veteran with some talent and was anchored by a true star of the sport. Due to the lack of experience by the team, they were expected to do little in international competition.

However, they stunned the world when they upset Japan to take the world championship. The anchor of the team carried the team through many of the matches but, because he was doing so well and his reputation and legendary performances so motivated his teammates that they went above and beyond their limits to stay even and sometimes even outscore their opponents. Knowing that if given a chance, their anchor would pull it out for 'em at the end. The fighters fought with more confidence, intensity, amd grit.

They also considered it a great honor to be on the same team with a fighter and a warrior of this legendary caliber and though unspoken, found themselves digging deeper to fight harder.

2 years later, the same team but with anoter anchor, found that the team wasn't the same. The motivation was not their and the new anchor, though a fighter of extreme talent as he needed to be wasn't enough to propel the team to victory.

Yes I believe their are those out there due to their reputation, psyche, moxie, or whatever, propels their team to greater heights. Who by his presence makes each and EVERY player better.

I think 2007 season was an example of that...

Aaron Rodgers has the makings of a great QB. And in a few years, after he continues to prove himself could be every bit as important in the hearts of the players, fans, and the coaches alike but, this year isn't it.

I think the Packers performances bear that out.

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Agree 100% on the fiery leader. Reggie White started it when he came to Green Bay--he inspired the team with the way he played the game, and the whole team badly wanted to win a Super Bowl for him. Last year, I think there was a lot of the same effect with Brett.

This year, the closest we've got to that same superstar quality are Charles Woodson, Al Harris, and Donald Driver, but it doesn't appear any of them of stepped up into the leader role.

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Dingus,

Haven't the Packers lost in Dallas over and over for the last decade or so?

And IF you don't know me by now, I expect the Packers to win EVERY game.

I expect 16-0 EVERY year as I have often posted here.

I think you missed my point. The differnce isn't in the players but in their hearts and no amount of statistics are going to measure the heart of the players.

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Heart yes

but from what we are told

Harrell sucks, Bishop sucks, Montgomery sucks

So how in the F$%&$% are those guys going to up their level of play then if they really suck?

They can't cuz they do not have it in them

GOD him self could not make them play any better

Let's keep GOD out of it. GOD can make anything happen. :thumbright:

My point is that the heart isn't there for those people. And may be that is the difference that #4 made for the Packers. I don't know how to fix it, is there another Reggie White around somewhere?

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13-3 vs 5-8... enough of the excuses. This team would have been better with Brett at the helm for one or two more years, period.

If the Packers were 11-3 right now, you'd all be singing the praises of TT, MM, and Buck Rodgers, You can't have it both ways! I was ready to eat crow for being a darksider. If the Packers did just as well this year, I was willing to say that Ted Thompson was right, but you know what... he wasn't right. You're not leaving the table until you eat your crow.

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Your argument sounds compelling at first blush, except it fails utterly to explain either the 2005 seasons (4-12) or the 2006 season (8-8). Where was Favre's mystical influence those years?

Oh, wait, what's that I hear? It was all the defense's fault those years?

Figures.

In the face of empirical facts, your argument falls flat on its face.

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Are we talking about 05 or are we talking about 08? Last I checked, we were talking about 07 and 08.

The team was very different from 2005 to 2008 than it was form 2007 to 2008. Completely different teams. Granted, there were a couple of new players from 2007 to 2008, so you can't say that Favre was the only difference. Albeit, he was the only major move.

In 2005 we had a completely different team, different receivers, different O-line, different defense. Completely Apples to Oranges. Let me see... we had Driver in 05, we had Favre in 05, we had KGB in 2005... hmm... didn't have Jones, didn't have Jennings, didn't have Grant, didn't have over half of the starters we had then.

In the face of empirical facts, your argument falls flat on its face.

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