Packers and 1st round drafting

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

10 months ago

You would think with the first round drafting investment, this team would have dominant defensive, lol.

That's what six offensive guys since '99 draft in the first round?

2 QB
1 TE
1 WR
2 OL
5 LB
7 DB
8 DL

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nerdmann
Premier Member

10 months ago

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

People keep saying we don't have dominant defense. Granted, we slumped a bit last year. Even so, we picked up again towards the end of the season. Remember the previous season? Defense were absolute closers. Remember how Rasul stole that game against the Cardinals?

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

10 months ago

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

Packers didn't play Cardinals last season, that was the 2021 season. And Rasul Douglas was a free agent pick up, not a first round draft pick by the Packers.

Maybe that is what you meant by previous season, as in previous to last season, which I think you should specify the season so it's clear for those of us (e.g. me) who have troubles with associating one sentence off another. 🙂

Regarding 2022 season. The Packers defense gave up 192 points in the first nine games and 183 in the final 8 games. Correct, those are the points scored against the Packers. Either way, that really wasn't good.

Front Nine - 21.3 per game scored against us.
Back Eight - 22.8 per game scored against us.

Total Yards 17th
Rushing Yards 26th
Passing Yards 6th (not bad!)
Interception rate (2nd)

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beast
Select Member

10 months ago

We always hear about the 1st round, but Gute has a pattern in the first four rounds.

1st round: Defense
2nd, 3rd and 4th round: Offense

The exceptions since Gute started (2018) being
2018 CB Jackson (bust)
2018 ILB Burks (STer)
2020 QB Love
2023 DL Wooden

So yeah defense is getting 1st rounders, but the offense is getting the quantity and when you consider drafts high rate of busts, quantity might be better than straight quality as even the first rounders might be busts.

From 2019 to 2022 (because we haven't seen the 2023 Packers team results yet), in the top 4 rounds, the Packers have drafted only 5 defensive players all of them coming from the 1st round. Meanwhile drafting 12 offensive players. Yes first rounders are supposed to be better, but injuries happened and the draft has a very high bust or disappointed factor where quantity matters just as much as quality).

Bit also let's look at the 1st round defenders vs 2nd round offense.

2022: ILB Walker & DL Wyatt vs WR Watson
2021: CB Stokes vs C Myers
2020: Both offensive
2019: OLB Gary & S Savage vs OG Jenkins
2018: Both defensive

I believe one could argue the 2nd round offensive players have out played some of the 1st round defenders (so far).

I would be interested in hearing if this pattern is somewhat planned or completely random.

beast
Select Member

10 months ago

That's what six offensive guys since '99 draft in the first round?

2 QB
1 TE
1 WR
2 OL
5 LB
7 DB
8 DL

image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

How is Gary a DE but Van Ness an OLB? If you count the Edge Rushers as DE then Matthews and Van Ness should be DEs.

Seems like the Packers have drafted 10 defensive front guys and they weren't great at selecting them. Though seems like no GM is perfect and they all have their positions they're better or worse at drafting.

Martha Careful
Member

10 months ago

Zero 2Cool responding to Nerdmann

Originally Posted by: nerdmann
People keep saying we don't have dominant defense. Granted, we slumped a bit last year. Even so, we picked up again towards the end of the season. Remember the previous season? Defense were absolute closers. Remember how Rasul stole that game against the Cardinals?

Zero2Cool replied "Packers didn't play Cardinals last season, that was the 2021 season. And Rasul Douglas was a free agent pick up, not a first round draft pick by the Packers."

Take it easy on Nerdmann. He has all recently shared with us all that he is an expert on hallucinogens/psychedelics, and perhaps when he posts he is being effected by those things. Indeed this would explain many things 🤣

Moreover:

I think the reason people are so critical of Joe Barry is that we see a lot of talent there which has been utilized in such a way that does not optimize their effectiveness. The easiest example is having the CBs play 8 yards off slot and wide-outs on 3rd & 2 situations. Other examples are not consistently taking away the opponents best weapon (as New England and other teams do) such as Jefferson of the Vikings. (Yes, I am aware we did that on the last Vikings game...so why not all the time?!) Maybe the talent IS there and we are just not coaching them up.
Re Stokes, I am going to withhold judgement here. A strong rookie year, then the guy was banged up. I think he will turn out to be very strong, maybe not all world, but really good.
If we are really honest about it, there is not much difference between low 1st and high 2nd round picks. I know we get the benefit of the 5th year option with first rounders, but perhaps the second round guys (like Avis) try harder, with less of a sense of entitlement so they might work out better.

Go Packers!!!!

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

10 months ago

Originally Posted by: beast

It's what was reported at the time I updated the draft pick in the database. I don't go back and update them.

nerdmann
Premier Member

10 months ago

Zero 2Cool responding to NerdmannTake it easy on Nerdmann. He has all recently shared with us all that he is an expert on hallucinogens/psychedelics, and perhaps when he posts he is being effected by those things. Indeed this would explain many things 🤣

Moreover:

I think the reason people are so critical of Joe Barry is that we see a lot of talent there which has been utilized in such a way that does not optimize their effectiveness. The easiest example is having the CBs play 8 yards off slot and wide-outs on 3rd & 2 situations. Other examples are not consistently taking away the opponents best weapon (as New England and other teams do) such as Jefferson of the Vikings. (Yes, I am aware we did that on the last Vikings game...so why not all the time?!) Maybe the talent IS there and we are just not coaching them up.
Re Stokes, I am going to withhold judgement here. A strong rookie year, then the guy was banged up. I think he will turn out to be very strong, maybe not all world, but really good.
If we are really honest about it, there is not much difference between low 1st and high 2nd round picks. I know we get the benefit of the 5th year option with first rounders, but perhaps the second round guys (like Avis) try harder, with less of a sense of entitlement so they might work out better.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful

This defense has been clutch at times. I think the defenses prime ingredient is when Matt is telling Barry what to do. t'm not suggesting that Barry is necessarily that dumb, but that they have a relationship where Joe is open to feedback in a way that many DCs are or would not be.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

beast
Select Member

10 months ago

I'm not sure Joe Barry is natural more open to it than average, but more, you are f'n screwing up, you need to do this, or I'll find someone that will ...

Not to suggest it was stated like that, but in easy to fire positions, you listen to your boss or you're out. And Barry might not ever get a 4th attempt at DC if he's quickly kicked out of this one.

Martha Careful
Member

10 months ago

#10

Beast guessed what MLF may have said to Joe Barry

you are f'n screwing up, you need to do this, or I'll find someone that will ...
Not to suggest it was stated like that... I think the defenses prime ingredient is when Matt is telling Barry what to do.

I think it was probably stated very close to that. This is football, not the United Nations. I don't think Barry is dumb, simply way to risk averse. And I believe your suggestion that they are at their best when MLF puts the hammer down is spot on.

Go Packers!!!!

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Fan Shout

Martha Careful (10-May) : 1. this is true of all our linemen. 2. His run block is fine. 3. If all OL played like he has, we would win SB.

beast (10-May) : Meyers pass blocking is really good, his run blocking is really not.

Zero2Cool (9-May) : Packers have claimed DE Spencer Waege off of waivers from the 49ers and waived DT Rodney Mathews.

Zero2Cool (9-May) : And the OL protections seem to be good.

Zero2Cool (9-May) : I really don't know lol. I don't see him getting blown up.

Zero2Cool (9-May) : -3 buwahhhahaaha

Mucky Tundra (9-May) : 4th

Zero2Cool (9-May) : because he's 1st

Mucky Tundra (9-May) : Myers isn't even the 3rd best C on the roster atm

Martha Careful (9-May) : I am not sure I understand the Myers hate. He was consistently our third best lineman. RG and LT were worse.

beast (9-May) : Just saying I don't think moving Myers would help Myers.

beast (9-May) : Center is usually considered the easiest position physically if you can handle the snap stuff.

Mucky Tundra (8-May) : Bust it is then

Zero2Cool (8-May) : Context. Sounds like Myers won't be cross-trained. C or bust.

Mucky Tundra (8-May) : @BookOfEli_NFL Packers pass game coordinator, Jason Vrable said that Jayden Reed and Dontayvion Wicks shared a placed in Florida while train

Mucky Tundra (8-May) : For now...

Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers go about evaluating their "best five," OL coach Luke Butkus makes on thing clear: "Josh Myers is our center."

beast (8-May) : Though I'm a bit surprised letting go of CBs, I thought we needed more not less

beast (8-May) : It was confusing with two DB Anthony Johnson anyways

Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers actually had Ray Lewis on the phone.

Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers wanted to draft Ray Lewis. Ravens stole him.

Martha Careful (6-May) : Happy 93rd Birthday to the Greatest Baseball Player of All-Time...Willie Mays

Zero2Cool (6-May) : Walter Stanely's son

buckeyepackfan (6-May) : and released CB Anthony Johnson and DL Deandre Johnson and waived/injured WR Thyrick Pitts (thigh-rick).

buckeyepackfan (6-May) : The Green Bay Packers have signed WR Julian Hicks, OL Lecitus Smith (luh-SEET-us) and WR Dimitri Stanley

Zero2Cool (6-May) : Petty, but it's annoying me how the NFL is making the schedule release an event.

Mucky Tundra (4-May) : @mattschneidman Matt LaFleur on how he tore his pec: “Got in a fight with the bench press. I lost.”

Zero2Cool (3-May) : Jordan Love CAN sign an extension as of today. Might tak weeks/months though

TheKanataThrilla (3-May) : Packers decline 5th year option for Stokes

Mucky Tundra (3-May) : @ProFootballTalk Jaylen Warren: Steelers' special teams coach has discussed Justin Fields returning kicks.

Zero2Cool (2-May) : Season officially ending tonight for Bucks ... sad face

Zero2Cool (2-May) : Giannis Antetokounmpo is listed as out for tonight's game.

dfosterf (2-May) : Surprisingly low initially is my guess cap wise, but gonna pay the piper after that

dfosterf (2-May) : The number on Love is going to be brutal.

Zero2Cool (2-May) : May 3rd. Extension day for Jordan Love. (soonest)

Zero2Cool (1-May) : USFL MVP QB Alex McGough moved to WR. So that's why no WR drafted!

earthquake (1-May) : Packers draft starters at safety ever few years. Collins, Clinton-Dix, Savage

beast (1-May) : Why can't the rookies be a day 1 starter? Especially when we grabbed 3 of them at the position

dfosterf (1-May) : Not going to be shocked if Gilmore goes to the Lions.

dfosterf (1-May) : I hear you dhazer, but my guess would be Gilmore Colts and Howard Vikings from what little has been reported.

Mucky Tundra (30-Apr) : S learn from McKinney who learns from Hafley who learns from the fans. Guaranteed Super Bowl

Zero2Cool (30-Apr) : could*

Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Safeties should learn from Xavier.

dhazer (29-Apr) : And what about grabbing a Gilmore or Howard at CB ? Those are all Free Agents left

dhazer (29-Apr) : out of curiosity do they try and sign Simmons or Hyde to let these young safeties learn from, they can't be day 1 starters.

Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : I miss having Sam Shields.

Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Not that he's making excuses, just pointing it out

Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : That's for dang sure. Make our erratic kicker have no excuse!

packerfanoutwest (28-Apr) : having a great long snapper is gold

Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : LaFleur looking like he had some weight. Coachin will do that lol

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