Zero2Cool
3 years ago

If the only point you're trying to make is that tanking isn't a good way to build a team, I'm not sure I have much to argue about there. There are few examples of teams tanking, and fewer still cases where we know the poor performances were intentional (we can only assume). As far as analyzing tanking in a meaningful way, it's next to impossible: small sample size, can't verify actions. It's difficult to say one way or another.

Now, to the examples that were purposefully excluded from the above post:

The 2003 Giants finished 6-10 and got the #4 pick (2 wins more than the Chargers, who picked #1). They were not a good team, having lost 8 straight but winning their final game to close out the season. To be fair, winning that last game is a solid indicator that they were not tanking for a better draft pick.

The 1982 Broncos finished 2-7 (strike-shortened season) and got the #4 pick. They were not a good team.

Having a poor record and a top-5 draft pick makes it a lot easier to trade up to #1. If these were good teams, it likely would have been too costly (draft-pick wise) to make these trades. In both cases, bad teams were turned around, at least in part, by trading for the top player/quarterback in the draft. This is directly counter to the point that you're trying to make, which is why you're trying to justify excluding these examples.

The whole premise is somewhat dubious, and you're cherry-picking data to try and prove a point you've already decided is correct. It's hard to view this sort of argument with anything but skepticism.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



You're completely obfuscating data and statistics to prove something that is obviously not true. Tanking to get the first overall pick to use on a QB is not a good team building strategy. You can you try to slice it in any way you want, but the fact is, it is NOT a good approach. Sorry, I think you're being obtuse on this one for the sake of having something to argue about and I'm done.
UserPostedImage
Rockmolder
3 years ago
Pretty sure no one can make any irrefutable conclusions based on this data, because there's way too many variables. The biggest ones being that every draft class is different and every team is different.

If Lawrence turns out as good a player as people think right now and the Jets have more talent than they're showing, the conclusion will be they would've been better off with that 1st round pick than two meaningless wins.

If he doesn't live up to expectations and the Jets remain as bad as they've been for about the whole decade, the conclusion is it wouldn't have mattered.
Cheesey
3 years ago
Like I have said before, just because a guy is touted as “the next best thing” doesn’t mean he will be a great NFL player.
There are hundreds of players picked every year, and the majority of them never amount to much.
Some first round picks end up as busts. In fact, a lot of them do just that.
So to supposedly tank to get a higher pick doesn’t mean the guy they do pick will be great.
What was Aaron Rodgers, the 23rd pick? All the teams that had a shot at him didn’t think he was worth being picked earlier. Do you think they feel that way now?
But who knows if he would have ended up a star if he had gone to a different team? Had he been thrown right into the fire, or had other coaches, maybe he would have been a bust.
He fell into the perfect situation for him (and us).
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
3 years ago
22 QBs were drafted in the first round from 2009-2016.

None remain with the team that drafted them.


UserPostedImage
Cheesey
3 years ago

22 QBs were drafted in the first round from 2009-2016.

None remain with the team that drafted them.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Wow. I guess that proves what I said in the previous post.
And I bet those that were picked were touted as “the next great QB”.
I was a big football card collector back in the late 1980s and 1990s. I had so many rookie cards of players that were supposed to end up as great, only to flame out.
Now those cards aren’t worth the cardboard they are printed on.
Being a NFL GM isn’t as easy as some think it is.
Hindsight is easy for armchair quarterbacks.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
3 years ago

Wow. I guess that proves what I said in the previous post.
And I bet those that were picked were touted as “the next great QB”.
I was a big football card collector back in the late 1980s and 1990s. I had so many rookie cards of players that were supposed to end up as great, only to flame out.
Now those cards aren’t worth the cardboard they are printed on.
Being a NFL GM isn’t as easy as some think it is.
Hindsight is easy for armchair quarterbacks.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I got into card collecting late 80's and was obsessed in 90's. I had a paper route and after I got paid I would immediately proceed to Card Coin Corner just off Lombardi Ave and buy up packs of cards. I remember getting this card and my dad said "This guy is gonna be something! Look at him pumping those arms on the attack" or something to that affect.
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

The stat about the 22 QB's and first round. It just adds to what I was saying. Tanking to get the first overall pick does absolutely nothing to increase your chances of a Super Bowl. Yes, picking first in each round is an advantage, so there is that. However, you were the WORST team in the NFL for a reason. And if you were an average team and tanked, that means you have a losers mentality. Winning is a habit. So is losing.

It annoys me how people are so quick to degrade others for trying to win.
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
3 years ago

I got into card collecting late 80's and was obsessed in 90's. I had a paper route and after I got paid I would immediately proceed to Card Coin Corner just off Lombardi Ave and buy up packs of cards. I remember getting this card and my dad said "This guy is gonna be something! Look at him pumping those arms on the attack" or something to that affect.
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

The stat about the 22 QB's and first round. It just adds to what I was saying. Tanking to get the first overall pick does absolutely nothing to increase your chances of a Super Bowl. Yes, picking first in each round is an advantage, so there is that. However, you were the WORST team in the NFL for a reason. And if you were an average team and tanked, that means you have a losers mentality. Winning is a habit. So is losing.

It annoys me how people are so quick to degrade others for trying to win.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Makes me think of the next big thing, “Andre Ware”. I pulled several of his rookie cards and thought it was a great thing at the time. The only reason I think of him is his name. I would think “Long Andre Ware”,.....you know.....what you wear on a cold Wisconsin winter morning!😁😂
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (9h) : having a great long snapper is gold
Zero2Cool (15h) : LaFleur looking like he had some weight. Coachin will do that lol
Zero2Cool (17h) : Thanks Mucky and whomever created topcos for each pick!
Zero2Cool (17h) : Insane about Kingsley
dfosterf (19h) : Putring it here so Mucky sees it. He was our guy!
dfosterf (19h) : Bowden long snapper Wisconsin. Consensus best LS in college.
dfosterf (19h) : We got Peter Bowde
dfosterf (20h) : I personally interpret that as a partial tear that can be recovered from with rehab
dfosterf (20h) : MLF said Kingsley Enagbare did NOT tear his ACL and did NOT require surgery, and that he is "looking good" for the 2024 season!
beast (28-Apr) : T.O. son signs with the 49ers
Mucky Tundra (28-Apr) : damn those vikings
beast (27-Apr) : UDFA Vikings sign TE – Trey Knox, South Carolina
beast (27-Apr) : Kitchen was all high from Miami, he was more lucky than talented in 2022 and it showed in 2023
beast (27-Apr) : Reportedly Packers have UDFAs Jennings and Jones
beast (27-Apr) : OL – Donovan Jennings, USF OT – Trente Jones, Michigan
TheKanataThrilla (27-Apr) : Interesting draft. A bit shocked that we didn't select an early CB. Definitely have Safety help. Pretty happy overall.
dhazer (27-Apr) : wow the last 2 picks are really stupid and probably will be special teams players Top 10 draft pick next year book it
TheKanataThrilla (27-Apr) : I think he ended up with a terrible RAS score
dhazer (27-Apr) : Anyone know what went on with Kitchens from Florida? At 1 point he was to be the Packers 1st round and he is way down the board now
Martha Careful (27-Apr) : Z, could you please combine my thread with yours please. I obviously did not see it when I Created it
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Re: 'Kool-Aid' McKinstry. Other than Icky Woods, has there ever been a good NFLer with a childish nickname?
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Packers looking to trade up
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Flag?
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Sag?
Nonstopdrivel (26-Apr) : It rhymes with "bag."
beast (26-Apr) : Family? That's Deadpool's F word
Nonstopdrivel (26-Apr) : Not THAT f-word.
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : fuck
beast (25-Apr) : 49ers are Cap Tight
beast (25-Apr) : Fuck
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : Kanata, I will be when I'm on my lunch later
TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : Love you NSD
Nonstopdrivel (25-Apr) : Huh. I guess the F-word is censored in this fan shout.
Nonstopdrivel (25-Apr) : Anyone who doesn't hang out in the chat probably smokes pole.
TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : GoPackGo Thinking CB is the pick tonight
TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : Anyone hanging out in the chat tonight?
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : whoa...49ers have had trade conversations about both Deebo Samuel and Brandon Aiyuk
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : I hope they take a Punter at 9th overall. Be bold!
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : I may end up eating those words but I think they need a lot more talent then their 4 picks can provide
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : I really hope they stand pat and Draft a WR
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : @DMRussini
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : The Chicago Bears are very open for business at 9 and telling teams they are ready to move for the right price, per source
buckeyepackfan (24-Apr) : Lions extend Penei Soul 4yrs - 112mil
buckeyepackfan (24-Apr) : Lions extend St. Brown 4 years 120mil and
Mucky Tundra (24-Apr) : Now look, trading up to 13 to take a TE might not seem like a good idea later but it will be later!
dfosterf (24-Apr) : (Your trade up mock post)
dfosterf (24-Apr) : Mucky- The only thing fun to watch would be me flipping the f out if Gute goes up to 13 and grabs Brock Bowers, lol
beast (24-Apr) : DT Byron Murphy II, Texas... whom some believe is the next Aaron Donald (or the closest thing to Donald)
Zero2Cool (24-Apr) : What? And who?
Mucky Tundra (24-Apr) : *sad Mucky noises*
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2023 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
LIONS
Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
Raiders
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
CHARGERS
Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
CHIEFS
Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
Giants
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
Panthers
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
Cowboys
Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
49ers
Recent Topics
43m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

57m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

14h / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

14h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

16h / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

21h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

27-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.