uffda udfa
8 years ago

I don't know how many times I have to say this. I WANT ELITE PLAYERS ON THE ROSTER. Look back, I said if we can get a Kuechly, Calvin, and Watt at every roster spot, and we can afford it - AWESOME, DO IT!

I don't know how the hell you came to the conclusion that me or anyone said we wouldn't want Rollins or Randall to be elite or we want to draft a bunch of jabronis. You need your cheap players to excel if you want any chance of succeeding in the NFL. Randall, Gunter, Pennell, Janis, Heyward - PLEASE, BECOME ALL PROS!!!!

All I said is that when their contracts come up you make tough choices, we all know that. On that note, knowing you can't pay top dollar at each position, I said that generally I wouldn't prioritize WR at the absolute top of positions where I'd want to shell out the most $. QB, pass rusher, and CB, IMO are more important to have your highest paid players at, followed closely by WR.

By the way, did I mention that I WANT TO HAVE ELITE PLAYERS ON THE ROSTER, ESPECIALLY OUR DRAFT PICKS!

Originally Posted by: musccy 



That is GREAT... Finally!!!!...but aren't your worried about our cap? 😁


UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


musccy
8 years ago

That is GREAT... Finally!!!!...but aren't your worried about our cap? 😁

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Well all 32 teams have the same budget, so my BFF Ted and I are quite cognizant of the cap.
uffda udfa
8 years ago

Well all 32 teams have the same budget, so my BFF Ted and I are quite cognizant of the cap.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



Solid. Let's just not root for any of our players to not be elite due to financial concerns.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


GermanGilbert
8 years ago
I tried my very best, but I just didn't get the point uffda udfa is making. Might be because I'm not a native speaker.

Noone said that we wouldn't appreciate if Randall and Rollins become HoFers. The more young talent playing like All-Pros, the better. After the Rookie contract expires, you can still select who you let go and who do you pay. And decisions will be much easier if you have an additional 3 or 4 draft classes after that, that are also developing into "All-Pros" playing for cheap.

So if you find an elite player in the Draft, good for you, keep him and pay him as appropriate for the 2nd contract if you don't have good alternatives at the position. If you have, let him go, as I agree depth is more important than eliteness.

So drafting elite players doesn't ruin your cap, neither does drafting good players. What ruins your cap is drafting shitty and therefore need to fill your roster with "so called" elite FAs. Dan Snyder is a good example. I have no idea if he had an appointment at a family party at draft days over various years, but he spent several draft picks on players and overpaid for FAs in this process. Where were the Redskins over the last couple of years with that?

So my point is: Draft good and find talented UDFAs to have cheap depth for your roster is way more worth than aquiring elite talent at one position. A good rookie contract player is not as good and of course not elite as Calvin Johnson, but you can afford 20 of them for one Megatron.
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sschind
8 years ago
As much as you would like to separate player talent from the salary cap it can't be done. Now before you go accusing me of wanting only good talent so as not to mess up the cap I have gone on record before as saying I want every Packer player to be an all pro.

You say you want elites at every position and let the cap work itself out. You can do that, you are a fan, what you want makes no difference. You can want, and even demand that Ted Thompson signs elite players at every position (or accuse him of settling if he doesn't) because it makes no difference what you want. A GM can't do that because he can not simply disregard the cap. It has nothing to do with not WANTING an elite at every position it has everything to do with being able to afford an elite at every position. It works for rookies and guys on rookie deals because they are cheap but you are saying that if Rollins or Randal or Montgomery or Janis or Abby or any player the Packers have drafted reach the elite status we should resign them simply because they are elite, salary cap be damned. It can't be done. At least not and still be able to afford to fill out the rest of the roster.

There are 22 starters on the team (not counting specialists) if everyone one of them is an elite you are going to spend your entire salary cap on one side of the ball just on starters That is assuming an elite player will command an elite salary. I suppose your way could work if those elite players would play for the same amount of money the average players do but we both know that won't happen. You can pay some of your players elite money, and for the sake of argument we will assume they earn it, but no matter how you try to spin it, slice it, twist is, whatever it the fact is there is no way you can afford elite players at every position.

That is in no way saying we can't or don't desire an elite player at every position. The difference between you wanting Rodgers and Johnson and some of us wanting Rodgers, Nelson, Cobb and Adams has nothing to do with simply who we want. It has to do with who we want but also who else we can have. You are looking at the starting QB and #1 WR position we are looking at the whole team.

Teams that spend elite money on too many players had better be pretty good at identifying cheap young talent because they are going to need it. The Packers have been pretty good at it and we will see how good the Seahawks will be in the next few years. There is a huge difference between rookies at every position becoming elite and going out and signing elite players at every position. If your rookies become elite that is great but that also ensures you probably won't be able to keep them all.

The bottom line is you can't simply disregard the salary cap which is what you want to do. You say it is ridiculous not to want an elite player at every position and if that were all there was to it you would be right but that is not all there is to it. You want Ted Thompson and the rest of us to act as if the salary cap does not exist. Ted can't do that since it is a fact of doing business in the NFL. I suppose we could do that, you do so why can't we, but we realize it is a fruitless endeavor. You can live in your fantasy land where the salary cap does not exist and your team can sign whomever they want for however much money the want but as for me why pretend I can have something when I know I can't? If I want to build a fantasy team I play fantasy football. For the real thing I go with what we have and that includes the salary cap. It has nothing to do with only "wanting" good players at some positions it has to do with realizing the fact that that is the way it is.
uffda udfa
8 years ago

As much as you would like to separate player talent from the salary cap it can't be done. Now before you go accusing me of wanting only good talent so as not to mess up the cap I have gone on record before as saying I want every Packer player to be an all pro.

You say you want elites at every position and let the cap work itself out. You can do that, you are a fan, what you want makes no difference. You can want, and even demand that Ted Thompson signs elite players at every position (or accuse him of settling if he doesn't) because it makes no difference what you want. A GM can't do that because he can not simply disregard the cap. It has nothing to do with not WANTING an elite at every position it has everything to do with being able to afford an elite at every position. It works for rookies and guys on rookie deals because they are cheap but you are saying that if Rollins or Randal or Montgomery or Janis or Abby or any player the Packers have drafted reach the elite status we should resign them simply because they are elite, salary cap be damned. It can't be done. At least not and still be able to afford to fill out the rest of the roster.

There are 22 starters on the team (not counting specialists) if everyone one of them is an elite you are going to spend your entire salary cap on one side of the ball just on starters That is assuming an elite player will command an elite salary. I suppose your way could work if those elite players would play for the same amount of money the average players do but we both know that won't happen. You can pay some of your players elite money, and for the sake of argument we will assume they earn it, but no matter how you try to spin it, slice it, twist is, whatever it the fact is there is no way you can afford elite players at every position.

That is in no way saying we can't or don't desire an elite player at every position. The difference between you wanting Rodgers and Johnson and some of us wanting Rodgers, Nelson, Cobb and Adams has nothing to do with simply who we want. It has to do with who we want but also who else we can have. You are looking at the starting QB and #1 WR position we are looking at the whole team.

Teams that spend elite money on too many players had better be pretty good at identifying cheap young talent because they are going to need it. The Packers have been pretty good at it and we will see how good the Seahawks will be in the next few years. There is a huge difference between rookies at every position becoming elite and going out and signing elite players at every position. If your rookies become elite that is great but that also ensures you probably won't be able to keep them all.

The bottom line is you can't simply disregard the salary cap which is what you want to do. You say it is ridiculous not to want an elite player at every position and if that were all there was to it you would be right but that is not all there is to it. You want Ted Thompson and the rest of us to act as if the salary cap does not exist. Ted can't do that since it is a fact of doing business in the NFL. I suppose we could do that, you do so why can't we, but we realize it is a fruitless endeavor. You can live in your fantasy land where the salary cap does not exist and your team can sign whomever they want for however much money the want but as for me why pretend I can have something when I know I can't? If I want to build a fantasy team I play fantasy football. For the real thing I go with what we have and that includes the salary cap. It has nothing to do with only "wanting" good players at some positions it has to do with realizing the fact that that is the way it is.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



Can we stipulate to something here for crying out loud? I am referring to the ARTICLE which tried bragging on the org for NOT DRAFTING talent of the likes of Dez Bryant. It's as if it's our orgs MO to pursue guys who will never be great for fear they'll eat the cap. That is beyond LUDICROUS.

What I see in reply is SIGNING guys who are ELITE. Apples and oranges.

Nobody understands what a budget means or a salary cap any better than I do. I get it. What I do not get or will never get is fans saying they hope our draftees aren't elite for fear of the salary cap. That's beyond idiotic.

Honestly, do you read what I type? No. I asked if anyone wanted Randall, Rollins and Gunter to end up being elite CB's? I went on to next say sign the one of the 3 who is the elitist of the group and let the other two go. I get it...you can't sign everybody whether they're good, very good, or elite. Duh. However, that does not mean and should NEVER mean that you don't try drafting elite prospects because you're in fear of the cap consequences YEARS down the road. Stupidity with a capital S.

Learn my arguments before you respond to them. I guarantee there won't be half the vitriol and misunderstanding there is if you would only read what I say. I read what you say and that's why I respond as I do. It's very difficult reading completely illogical things...and even harder watching someone get all whooped up into a celebratory frenzy over those illogical things.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


musccy
8 years ago
I honestly never read the article, nor do I recall anyone on here saying they want us to draft inferior talent for fear of the cap...I certainly didn't.

I was just responding to comments within the thread. I never once said I didnt want Rollins or any other draft pick to excel so maybe you should take your own advice and actually read what people post instead of presuming points they never made.
uffda udfa
8 years ago

I honestly never read the article, nor do I recall anyone on here saying they want us to draft inferior talent for fear of the cap...I certainly didn't.

I was just responding to comments within the thread. I never once said I didnt want Rollins or any other draft pick to excel so maybe you should take your own advice and actually read what people post instead of presuming points they never made.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



Wouldn't dispense if I didn't:

If every draft pick becomes an All Pro, we wont afford them all.

That is your quote, musccy. Does it sound like this is what you want? You won't find me worrying about such things. Again, GREAT problem to have. It sounds as though you would rather not have it at all and just shoot for good.

It would also be good to read the article. You said you didn't. Well, how are you going to hang in a thread where I'm railing on what was said in an article if you haven't read it? You can't. You don't even know what I'm railing against. Read the article and tell me it's just wonderful, do a Lambeau leap, over the fact we haven't drafted a WR anywhere near Dez Bryant's talent level. This is actually being praised in the article. Rob Demovsky is on dope. It's the kind of crap some fans buy and wear as a badge of honor when it's complete idiocy. Thank God Eddie Lacy isn't Adrian Peterson. Whew! Thank God Jordy isn't Megatron. Whew. Thank God Randall Cobb isn't Julio Jones. Whew. So lucky these guys didn't turn out to be the elite of the elite.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


earthquake
8 years ago
Your quoted text is a perfectly accurate and reasonable thing to say. If every player drafted is an all pro, the team can't keep them all. This is the reality.

This doesn't mean he wishes the Packers wouldn't draft an all-pro at every position, every poster here wants that. Stop with the strawman arguments, it's tiresome and vapid.
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musccy
8 years ago

Wouldn't dispense if I didn't:

If every draft pick becomes an All Pro, we wont afford them all.

That is your quote, musccy. Does it sound like this is what you want? You won't find me worrying about such things. Again, GREAT problem to have. It sounds as though you would rather not have it at all and just shoot for good.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Yes, I stated a simple undeniable fact. Now stop putting words in my mouth. Where does that quote say I don't want the Packers to draft elite players? It's a good problem to have when you have to choose which of your top draft choices you're able to retain/afford when their 4 years are up on their rookie deal.


It would also be good to read the article. You said you didn't. Well, how are you going to hang in a thread where I'm railing on what was said in an article if you haven't read it? You can't. You don't even know what I'm railing against. Read the article and tell me it's just wonderful, do a Lambeau leap, over the fact we haven't drafted a WR anywhere near Dez Bryant's talent level. This is actually being praised in the article. Rob Demovsky is on dope. It's the kind of crap some fans buy and wear as a badge of honor when it's complete idiocy. Thank God Eddie Lacy isn't Adrian Peterson. Whew! Thank God Jordy isn't Megatron. Whew. Thank God Randall Cobb isn't Julio Jones. Whew. So lucky these guys didn't turn out to be the elite of the elite.



You state we as fans want the Packers to have inferior players. I don't have to read Demovsky's article to comment on the ridiculousness of your accusations. Do you REALLY think the fans want all of our draft picks to turn into Rajis instead of CM3s? Brohms instead of ARs? Datkos instead of Linsleys? Buckley's instead of Shields?!? REALLY, you honestly think that?
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