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Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 12:38:05 PM(UTC)
I think the Vikings should trade Jared Allen and Adrian Peterson and stock up for the future. By the time they have a QB who can lead them, Peterson will have his wheels ran off and Allen won't be effective anymore.

Surely that would upset Vikings fans, but I think it would be best for the Vikings franchise. They made their run with Brett Favre, came up short. It's time to retool and draft for the future.

And with this post I probably just made Formo despise me a little more.
dfosterf  
#2 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:00:36 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I think the Vikings should trade Jared Allen and Adrian Peterson and stock up for the future. By the time they have a QB who can lead them, Peterson will have his wheels ran off and Allen won't be effective anymore.
Surely that would upset Vikings fans, but I think it would be best for the Vikings franchise. They made their run with Brett Favre, came up short. It's time to retool and draft for the future.
And with this post I probably just made Formo despise me a little more.

That's probably right. That is apparently a fan-base driven franchise. Zygi Wilf is a foreigner that owns a crap-load of real estate in New Jersey. He's probably watching soccer games when the Vikes are playing, and upon reflection, he is wise to do so...
"Super Bowl or bust"
Minnesota got "bust". Sometimes words and cliche's actually mean something.
AD and JA are going to die on their vine, like old purple grapes...
And they just might have pissed off the Packer franchise (not us the fans, mind you- the franchise) in the process to disable the brakes on the karma train... which happens to be chock full of steam...
Revenge is a dish best served cold. (Remember that one, Formo ? -- PPO-- me? )
Breakfast, lunch and dinner are served, sir !
Formo  
#3 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:45:42 PM(UTC)
dfosterf said: Go to Quoted Post
That's probably right. That is apparently a fan-base driven franchise. Zygi Wilf is a foreigner that owns a crap-load of real estate in New Jersey. He's probably watching soccer games when the Vikes are playing, and upon reflection, he is wise to do so...
"Super Bowl or bust"
Minnesota got "bust". Sometimes words and cliche's actually mean something.
AD and JA are going to die on their vine, like old purple grapes...
And they just might have pissed off the Packer franchise (not us the fans, mind you- the franchise) in the process to disable the brakes on the karma train... which happens to be chock full of steam...
Revenge is a dish best served cold. (Remember that one, Formo ? -- PPO-- me? )
Breakfast, lunch and dinner are served, sir !


Meh, I can't blame you guys for thinking that.. Y'all don't have any real emotion invested into the franchise. But then again, selling off Allen and AD COULD benefit the organization in the long run, there are no guarantees in the NFL. That said, I'm of the mindset of, you don't EVER, let your best players go. Ever. AD and Allen are two of the best Viking players right now. I'm all for keeping them.

As far as revenge being served cold.. I heard the saying before, Dave, but I'm afraid I might be missing the reference you are talking about.
Zero2Cool  
#4 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:37:03 PM(UTC)
Much like the Detroit Lions did to Barry Sanders, the Vikings are wasting years away from Jared Allen and Adrian Peterson. Yes, they are being paid and paid well.

You are right, I have no emotional ties and that's how any General Manager should approach such decisions. You draft solid OL and DL players, get yourself an excellent QB coach to tutor Christian Ponder or Joe Webb and build from there. The Vikings are actually in a good position to be a force, IF they traded those two players away and IF they drafted wisely.

Vikings won't be anything for at least two or three years and by that time, Adrian Peterson won't be nearly as effective and Jared Allen's speed, which is his biggest asset will be diminished to pass rush specialist. Why not aim for the stars instead of settling for .500?
Formo  
#5 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:44:30 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
The Vikings are actually in a good position to be a force, IF they traded those two players away and IF they drafted wisely.


That's my point. There is no guarantees. This isn't Madden, doing something like that has far greater risk vs. reward. Yes, exactly what you stated is true. But the key word is 'IF'. If that move was such a smart unemotional decision, you'd see far more GMs doing this. Fact of the matter is, you don't see this happening, and that's because the risk is too high.
Zero2Cool  
#6 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 3:14:04 PM(UTC)
Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
That's my point. There is no guarantees. This isn't Madden, doing something like that has far greater risk vs. reward. Yes, exactly what you stated is true. But the key word is 'IF'. If that move was such a smart unemotional decision, you'd see far more GMs doing this. Fact of the matter is, you don't see this happening, and that's because the risk is too high.


Herschel Walker, Steve Walsh, those guys ring a bell at all? HELLO COWBOYS! It has happened and if the fans weren't so fickle and demanding of WIN NOW, it would happen more. You're correct, the risk does not outweigh the reward when you have a staff full of incompetent college scout evaluators like the Vikings possess.

Where did I say there was a guarantee? Where did I say this was Madden? Yeah, keep implying things because you have no legit argument at all. Go grab your purple, err sorry, ROYAL purple hanky and sob every Sunday night.


This kind of move doesn't happen anymore because teams are not allowed to rebuild, they have to try and retool instead. The Vikings simply have too many old tools and missing tools to be fixed by a plug here and there.
Zero2Cool  
#7 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 3:51:33 PM(UTC)
LMAO, just got home from work. Guess what I hear on the radio? Denver Broncos are shopping Brandon Lloyd and D.J. Williams, two of their best players.

This will help add some umph to Formo saying this method of trading your best players on a failing team is not 'smart'. The Denver Broncos traded Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall, two of their best players. So, it still does happen, but when you have Josh McDaniels making the draft selections, it's not gonna turn out too well, lol.
dfosterf  
#8 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 4:44:40 PM(UTC)
Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
That's my point. There is no guarantees. This isn't Madden, doing something like that has far greater risk vs. reward. Yes, exactly what you stated is true. But the key word is 'IF'. If that move was such a smart unemotional decision, you'd see far more GMs doing this. Fact of the matter is, you don't see this happening, and that's because the risk is too high.

In a totally (un) related matter-
http://dvice.com/archive...1/10/we-now-know-why.php

At least from this observational platform. Flapper
zombieslayer  
#9 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 5:44:31 PM(UTC)
Just because the Broncos are doing it doesn't make it smart.

I'd love to see AP retire a Viking, just like I liked seeing Wally retire a Bear. Some things just should be done, out of general principle.

The Niners were my 2nd team in the 80s. Then they got rid of Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and Ronnie Lott (3 of their best players) when all 3 had gas in their tanks. All 3 of them had All Pro years, not just Pro Bowl years, but All Pro years after the Niners got rid of them. Very stupid.

Oh, and the Niner dynasty ended when all 3 left. 4 SBs. Then cut your 3 best players. Very smart. Yes, they had a SB in '94 but that was a fluke year (Steve Young playing his heart out and Neon Deion, Pack93z's favorite player ever, shutting down one side of the field). That was the year the Niners slipped by the Cows.
Zero2Cool  
#10 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:19:55 PM(UTC)
zombieslayer said: Go to Quoted Post
Just because the Broncos are doing it doesn't make it smart.


THANKS FOR READING!!! said:
This will help add some umph to Formo saying this method of trading your best players on a failing team is not 'smart'. The Denver Broncos traded Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall, two of their best players.

Formo  
#11 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:43:16 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
LMAO, just got home from work. Guess what I hear on the radio? Denver Broncos are shopping Brandon Lloyd and D.J. Williams, two of their best players.


One Brandon Lloyd and one D.J. Williams does NOT equal one Adrian "All Day" Peterson and one Jared "DakotaT loves me" Allen.

Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
This will help add some umph to Formo saying this method of trading your best players on a failing team is not 'smart'. The Denver Broncos traded Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall, two of their best players. So, it still does happen, but when you have Josh McDaniels making the draft selections, it's not gonna turn out too well, lol.


Exactly my point. It's a crapshoot. That's absolutely not worth it.

Zero2Cool said:
Herschel Walker, Steve Walsh, those guys ring a bell at all? HELLO COWBOYS! It has happened and if the fans weren't so fickle and demanding of WIN NOW, it would happen more.


Yeah, I guarantee that another Herschel Walker trade does not happen again.

Zero2Cool said:
You're correct, the risk does not outweigh the reward when you have a staff full of incompetent college scout evaluators like the Vikings possess.


Yup, so incompetent that the Vikings never drafted a Rookie of the Year, much less two of them.. [palm]
Zero2Cool  
#12 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:27:48 PM(UTC)
Any three Broncos do not equal half of Adrian Peterson. Thanks for missing the point, big surprise, genius.

Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
Yup, so incompetent that the Vikings never drafted a Rookie of the Year, much less two of them.. [palm]


[palm] You got me! Holy wow, you got me!! [palm] Randy Moss and Adrian Peterson [palm] ... who else do you got? Surely a few OL right? [palm] The majority of the Vikings talent comes from OTHER TEAMS. Prove me wrong. [palm]

Fact is, you are right, acquiring draft picks would be foolish because the Vikings do not know how to draft, nor do they know how to groom their draft picks into professional caliber players.[palm] That is why year after year they pillage free agency and trades. [palm]

Vikings are a poor mans New York Yankees. [palm]
Formo  
#13 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:32:31 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Any three Broncos do not equal half of Adrian Peterson. Thanks for missing the point, big surprise, genius.



[palm] You got me! Holy wow, you got me!! [palm] Randy Moss and Adrian Peterson [palm] ... who else do you got? Surely a few OL right? [palm] The majority of the Vikings talent comes from OTHER TEAMS. Prove me wrong. [palm]

Fact is, you are right, acquiring draft picks would be foolish because the Vikings do not know how to draft, nor do they know how to groom their draft picks into professional caliber players.[palm] That is why year after year they pillage free agency and trades. [palm]

Vikings are a poor mans New York Yankees. [palm]


Percy Harvin wasn't a RotY? You might wanna check on that.

As far their other drafted talent: Chad Greenway, EJ and Erin Henderson, Kevin Williams, Loadholt, Ponder (will prove to be a decent pick), Sidney Rice (got the best out of him), Ray Edwards (got a draft pick out of him leaving), Jim Kliensasser, Kyle Rudolph, Brian Robison, Cedric Griffon are a few talented guys off the top of my head that have contributed for the Vikings in one way or another the past 2-3 seasons. And every one of those guys are starters.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your rant.
Zero2Cool  
#14 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 6:12:56 AM(UTC)
Now the Colts are being rumored to attempt to move a couple of their best players, Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis. I think it's more of a product of the trade deadline approaching.

Formo, you proved my point with your scarce list, thank ya sir.

If you are drafting the rookie of the year, that means it wasn't that tough of a decision to make that draft selection. But I don't mean to minimize the achievement, since that's the only thing you have going for your pathetic team.
Formo  
#15 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 11:48:50 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Now the Colts are being rumored to attempt to move a couple of their best players, Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis. I think it's more of a product of the trade deadline approaching.

Formo, you proved my point with your scarce list, thank ya sir.

If you are drafting the rookie of the year, that means it wasn't that tough of a decision to make that draft selection. But I don't mean to minimize the achievement, since that's the only thing you have going for your pathetic team.


My scarce list?! Seriously? The Vikings have 9 starters that have not been drafted by them, 3 of which weren't even drafted at all. The Packers have 6 starters that were not drafted by them, 3 of which weren't drafted.

Then looking at the rest of the team.. The Vikings have 28 non-starters that were not drafted by them, the Packers have 19 non-starters that were not drafted by them (keep in mind I'm not counting any players that were picked up as rookie free agents).

My point is, the Vikings don't get the majority of their players via trades/FA like you Puker fans like to think. You think they get their players by pillaging other teams' rosters because they seemingly only trade for the big namers which puts them in the spotlight.

I looked at 5 other teams' rosters and they are pretty interesting. Lets have a looksie:

Stillers:
5 starters not drafted by the Steelers
21 non-starters not drafted by the Steelers

Patriots:
9 starters not drafted by the Pats
32 non-starters not drafted by the Pats

Cowboys:
7 starters not drafted by the Cows
25 non-starters not drafted by the Cows

Redskins:
A whopping 15 starters not drafted by the Skins
29 non-starters not drafted by the Skins

Just because the Packers won a Super Bowl with a majority of their roster all drafted within their system doesn't mean that is the only way to build a successful NFL team. The Stiller and Pats have solid franchises and they hardly built their teams the way Ted has done with the Packers.

I agree with you in that it doesn't make sense to draft players if you can't scout college players. My point was the Vikings are far from the worst team in the NFL when it comes to drafting. The number of starters currently on the squad says as such.
Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 11:59:09 AM(UTC)
Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
I agree with you in that it doesn't make sense to draft players if you can't scout college players. My point was the Vikings are far from the worst team in the NFL when it comes to drafting. The number of starters currently on the squad says as such.


My point is you absolutely need to stop implying what I am saying. The Vikings are not the worst at anything in my opinion.

I wasn't saying you build by the draft. I am saying you do NOT make big ass trades UNLESS you are the brink of being a legit contender.

Who have the Steelers or Patriots made big trades to ACQUIRE? I think Corey Dillon was a 1st rounder? They just don't do it.

They both have staffs that can COACH PLAYERS UP. They get budget free agents, undrafted rookies and draft well. THAT IS HOW YOU BUILD A WINNER. I never said you must ONLY draft like your research indicates.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there is a pseudo blueprint to build teams. Actually I'll throw this in a new thread. I don't want to run this topic down anymore than I have.
Zero2Cool  
#17 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 12:12:32 PM(UTC)
Okay, wow moving posts is a biotch. This is my thinking of how to build a successful NFL team.

Owner - priority one should be winning and putting a winning product on the field

General Manager - cares not about fans opinions only about acquiring the best talent. must not be afraid to make a big move to put team over the top.

Head Coach - teacher first, coach second.
Offensive Coordinator - teacher first, coach second.
Defensive Coordinator - teacher first, coach second.
Special Teams - not named Shawn Slocum


Solid scouting staff for college talent, keep logs on files until the player hits 32'ish.
Only overspend in free agency/trade if it is for a player whom will put your team "over the top"
Get rid of players a year EARLY rather than a year LATE


If you remove economics from decisions such as hiring a coach because he has a big name, or a player cuz of their name, etc ... I think this is the foundation most teams TRY to emulate, but fail.


Of course this is just my own BRIEF opinion.


Formo  
#18 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 12:41:25 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
My point is you absolutely need to stop implying what I am saying. The Vikings are not the worst at anything in my opinion.


I'm only replying in a way because of the implications of your posts. And yes, that's exactly what I'm perceiving your posts to imply. I'll take ownership of that.. but only because of your history of implying the Vikings are the debul.

Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I wasn't saying you build by the draft. I am saying you do NOT make big ass trades UNLESS you are the brink of being a legit contender.

Who have the Steelers or Patriots made big trades to ACQUIRE? I think Corey Dillon was a 1st rounder? They just don't do it.

They both have staffs that can COACH PLAYERS UP. They get budget free agents, undrafted rookies and draft well. THAT IS HOW YOU BUILD A WINNER. I never said you must ONLY draft like your research indicates.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there is a pseudo blueprint to build teams. Actually I'll throw this in a new thread. I don't want to run this topic down anymore than I have.


My research doesn't indicate much. You were ribbing me about how the Vikings can't draft outside of the obvious 2 recent RotYs they have. All I was showing you was that, yes, in fact that Vikings CAN draft, and have as many own-drafted players on their roster as the average NFL team.

And as far as building a successful NFL team, there's going to be a blueprint on how to build the skeleton of the team, but as far as the rest goes, is very fluid.
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#19 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 12:45:26 PM(UTC)
How to build an NFL winner and we're using the Vikings as a model? I know some of you miss Nick the dumbass, but bringing VR back is not worth using the worst case scenario oxymoron possible.

Building a winner starts with the GM putting in place the right guy at Quarterback. That is step 1 and the Vikings have never learned that. It is incredible the amount of wasted talent that has gone through that franchise because they didn't have the great player at the number 1 position.

Packer fans should consider themselves the luckiest fvckers on the planet.
Zero2Cool  
#20 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 12:51:18 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
How to build an NFL winner and we're using the Vikings as a model?


Who the fuck is using the Vikings as an example on HOW TO build a winner? In my post briefly explaining a top level core structure I did not mention the Vikings.
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