IronMan
15 years ago
Forget about the accusation of rape for a second.

Was there any evidence that he had sex with her? Because he told the police that he did NOT have sex with her.
Pack93z
15 years ago

Forget about the accusation of rape for a second.

Was there any evidence that he had sex with her? Because he told the police that he did NOT have sex with her.

"IronMan" wrote:



Actually the point I argued in the other thread, the facts points to a lie..

The guy is a loser than has to stoop to the clubs to get laid.. whether the other party is willing, drunk, or otherwise.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
15 years ago
From his statement... skirting the whole rape deal all together.

"As the District Attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk. The Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that 'undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.' By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard."

"Goodell" wrote:


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
15 years ago

Since he's never been sentenced, I would've thought four to zero games would have been a good punishment.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I agree with this too. The freaking judicial system doesn't punish him, but his employer does? Just what did he do wrong?

I'm not saying he's innocent, but again not saying he's guilty either. With that said, I'm not sure how it's justified that he did something wrong if the court's didn't ... I just don't know.

I don't think the NFL should step in unless there's 100% proof of wrong doing or a conviction.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:



He is being disciplined by his employer.. just as any employer can suspend /terminate you with just cause, even if it doesn't break the law.

As the employer, the NFL or Steelers are well within their rights to remove him from active employment if it breaks company policy or brings harm to the employer.

There is no doubt in my mind, guilty or not of a crime, Ben has brought harm to the NFL and the Steelers.

He, like anyone else can appeal this judgment.. I highly doubt that he would because he would risk further details being dragged out.

Why should ballers be any different than any other working citizen?
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
IronMan
15 years ago

Forget about the accusation of rape for a second.

Was there any evidence that he had sex with her? Because he told the police that he did NOT have sex with her.

"pack93z" wrote:



Actually the point I argued in the other thread, the facts points to a lie..

The guy is a loser than has to stoop to the clubs to get laid.. whether the other party is willing, drunk, or otherwise.

"IronMan" wrote:

Yeah if there was evidence that they had sex, and he said they didn't.......not good.
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

From his statement... skirting the whole rape deal all together.

"As the District Attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk. The Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that 'undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.' By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard."

"pack93z" wrote:

"Goodell" wrote:



I was going to post the same thing (as I just read it myself on another site) about the underage drinking and Ben's hand in it. That would be grounds for suspension for sure.

An employer can not terminate/suspend and employee without a reason. At least, that's been what has been shown in my experience. It's then labeled discrimination. What I've seen happen is reasons conjured up that are ill based and unfounded, which then leads to the employee (err former) getting compensation via unemployment.

If this was solely based on the alleged rape, I think that would send a very very bad message to people and the players. Being accused of something doesn't make you guilty. Remember, innocent until PROVEN guilty. If the NFL were to decide to simply suspend players based on an accusation, imagine the hell that would cause?

You'd have women hired by teams and placed in opportunistic locations to accuse the upcoming opponents players of wrong doing. The market for hookers would boom!

Hopefully it never comes to that. The suspension is deserving for Ben.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
15 years ago

Forget about the accusation of rape for a second.

Was there any evidence that he had sex with her? Because he told the police that he did NOT have sex with her.

"IronMan" wrote:



Actually the point I argued in the other thread, the facts points to a lie..

The guy is a loser than has to stoop to the clubs to get laid.. whether the other party is willing, drunk, or otherwise.

"pack93z" wrote:

Yeah if there was evidence that they had sex, and he said they didn't.......not good.

"IronMan" wrote:



You are going to hate me, because once you start clicking on the links--it is tedious, but somewhat fascinating as well. You have to scroll down to see the "sets of documents".

Pay careful attention to the lab report documents, especially the docs concerning her panties.

Pittsburgh Post Gazette links to GBI reports 

I apologize for not being able to direct you to which set it is in. I read them when they were first released.
djcubez
15 years ago
How many club related incidents did ii take Pacman to get a full-year suspension? At least six.

How many club related incidents has Roethlisberger had? Two.

I don't see why Roethlisberger got six games, it's kind of high. I mean Stallworth killed a dude and got a full season. Roethlisberger hasn't even been found guilty of anything yet except poor decision making.
ILikeThePackers39
15 years ago
Here's my take: He's not being suspended for rape or any other crime. He's being suspended for being an arrogant prick who clearly suffers from an out-sized sense of entitlement and doesn't feel that he should alter his behavior in any way to preserve the league's reputation.

None of us here can say definitively whether he raped or assaulted the woman. But there's more than enough evidence to say that he did sequester himself in a back room and arrange to have "talent" brought into said room. On the heels of a very public civil suit for similar behavior, it smacks of - if nothing else - a sense that his wants are more important to him than societal norms or the reputation of his employer(s).

So what I see Goodell doing is saying "Guess what, you little prick? You're NOT more important than this league, and if you intend to continue to play in this league you'll cut that shit out, and fly right." Given that my employer can fire me for little more than an unfortunate desk-fart, I don't see why Ben's entitled to anything other than what he's getting.

Bottom line, I don't see this is any statement as to the guilt or lack thereof in this specific instance - it's a response to a pattern of behavior which the league clearly sees as intolerable. And good on 'em for it, I say.
blank
IronMan
15 years ago

Here's my take: He's not being suspended for rape or any other crime. He's being suspended for being an arrogant prick who clearly suffers from an out-sized sense of entitlement and doesn't feel that he should alter his behavior in any way to preserve the league's reputation.

None of us here can say definitively whether he raped or assaulted the woman. But there's more than enough evidence to say that he did sequester himself in a back room and arrange to have "talent" brought into said room. On the heels of a very public civil suit for similar behavior, it smacks of - if nothing else - a sense that his wants are more important to him than societal norms or the reputation of his employer(s).

So what I see Goodell doing is saying "Guess what, you little prick? You're NOT more important than this league, and if you intend to continue to play in this league you'll cut that shit out, and fly right." Given that my employer can fire me for little more than an unfortunate desk-fart, I don't see why Ben's entitled to anything other than what he's getting.

Bottom line, I don't see this is any statement as to the guilt or lack thereof in this specific instance - it's a response to a pattern of behavior which the league clearly sees as intolerable. And good on 'em for it, I say.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:

+1
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (23h) : Packers RB Josh Jacobs ranked No. 33 in NFL 'Top 100'
dfosterf (13-Aug) : The LVN Musgrave collision- Andy Herman said Musgrave seemed to be the one most impacted injury-wise
dfosterf (13-Aug) : a lower back injury
dfosterf (13-Aug) : Doubs says he's "fine" after injury scare. Some reported it as z
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : With LVN that is; need to see what happens in the next practice
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : beast, reading about what happened, it sounded like one of those "two guys collide and are moving slow afterwards" type of deals
beast (12-Aug) : I believe Musgrave has been injured every single season since at least a Sophomore in highschool
packerfanoutwest (12-Aug) : Matt LaFleur: “Highly unlikely” Jordan Love plays more this preseason
dfosterf (12-Aug) : Doubs, Savion Williams, LVN, Musgrave all banged up to one degree or another, missing one here I forget
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : RB Tyrion Davis-Price is signing with the Green Bay Packers.
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : zero help, dominated. preseason
beast (12-Aug) : QB Jordan Love has surgery
beast (12-Aug) : Martha said Morgan had a lot of help, I didn't watch the OL so I can't say.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers LT Jordan Morgan did not allow a single pressure across 23 pass-blocking snaps vs. Jets last night, per PFF
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : With buckeye and the reasonable couple, we're currently sitting at 10
buckeyepackfan (10-Aug) : Just posted to re-up on our FFL.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : If healthy after, then thats all I care. Well, no drops would be nice
wpr (10-Aug) : I made it through the 1st Q.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Just gotta figure out how.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Could have been a worse start, so there is that.
beast (10-Aug) : Yeah, someone tell the Packers football season has started, seems like they weren't ready for it
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : Sooooooo many penalties
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : It may only be preseason, but this game is a trip to the dentist
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do bad -- FREAK OUT!!!!!!
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do good -- eh only preseason
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Well that half was fun
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Great, zayne is down
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : 13 minutes away from kickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkoffff
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Had Celebration of Life for my uncle up north. wicked rain hope it dont come south
Mucky Tundra (9-Aug) : THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE PLAYING FOOTBALL TONIGHT!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!!!
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Woo-hoo
TheKanataThrilla (9-Aug) : NFL Network is broadcasting the game tonight, but not in Canada. Not sure why as no local television is showing the game.
beast (8-Aug) : But the Return from IR designations had to be applied by the 53 man cutdown.
beast (8-Aug) : It's a new rule, so it's not clear, but my understanding was that they could be IR'd at any time
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : *had to be IRed at 53
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : beast, I thought the designate return from IR players had to be IR at cutdowns to 53, not before
beast (8-Aug) : It's a brand new rule, either last season or this season, prior, all pre-season IRs were done for the season
beast (8-Aug) : But the Packers would have to use one for their return from IR spots on him, when they cut down to 53.
beast (8-Aug) : I think the NFL recently changed the IR rules, so maybe the season might not be over for OL Glover.
Zero2Cool (8-Aug) : Packers star Howton, first NFLPA prez, dies at 95 😔
dfosterf (8-Aug) : Apparently it is too complicated for several to follow your simple instructions, but I digress
dfosterf (8-Aug) : Zero- Did you see what I posted about Voice of Reason and his wife? She posted over at fleaflicker that they are both "In"
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Well, not crazy, it makes sense. Crazy I didn't notice/find it earlier
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : it's crazy how one stored procedure to get data bogged everything down for speed here
dfosterf (7-Aug) : to herd cats or goldfish without a bowl. They reminded me of the annual assembly of our fantasy league
dfosterf (7-Aug) : out on a field trip, outfitting them with little yellow smocks. Most of the little folk were well behaved, but several were like trying
dfosterf (7-Aug) : Yesterday my wife and I spent the afternoon on the waterfront here in Alexandria, Va. A daycare company took about 15 three/four year olds
wpr (7-Aug) : seems faster. yay
dfosterf (7-Aug) : Wife of reason posted on the in/out thread on fleaflicker that both she and vor are in
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : This page was generated in 0.135 seconds.
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