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Pack93z
Select Member

14 years ago

#11

For me.. this campaign should have been over long ago.. based on the premises that we went in with. That hasn't changed, but the truth is that I follow Dakota's path of logic here.

It is all about two things.. black gold and feeding the pipeline of the machine that is our defense department.

We have more than enough to deal within our own borders to keep our focus, yet we insist on trying to police the world. That said, I truly believe that their is extreme value in military knowledge of the event of the world, but if it doesn't affect us directly why do we feel it our place to dictate our values upon others?

Power? Ego? Riches? Insecurity? Righteousness? Morality?

Probably a mixture of the above.. just what is our dominant motivation? I don't think it is heavy in either of the last two.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Porforis
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#12

Originally Posted by: Pack93z

We can argue (or agree) to the ends of the earth about intentions or oil being a motivation behind war, but how much oil/oil money have we actually gotten out of Afghanistan? I mean that as a legitimate question, I've spent a half hour or so trying to research this but I'm finding it impossible to find any figures. Iraq seems like a much more likely target for a "get rich quick" scheme, but I always find it hard to believe that anyone can think that we could ever get more oil and resources OUT of a war than is put in, even if it was just a quick get in, kill Bin Laden and the Taliban leadership, throw in a provisional government and get out job. It's either one or the other - our leaders are bumbling idiots that can't do basic arithmetic, or they're highly intelligent manipulative plotters that manipulate the masses to get rich and still get out looking (sort of) harmless in the process.

Pack93z
Select Member

14 years ago

#13

Agreed on oil in Afghanistan, but we went into Iraq this time based on WMD claim and for a rationalized sense of self preservation in stopping terrorism.

Another note.. I don't think it is the actual revenue generated from the oil production, it is more about protecting the flow to the US, where I think the greed aspect comes in. The money generated from oil in this country powers many a political decision.

If WMD is the premise.. then we are in for a damn long haul if we are going to police all countries in that region.

Stopping Terrorism.. well what makes Iraq and Afghanistan different than Pakistan?

I am not going to pretend to know all the motivations of going back in this time, but I believe that we have methods of eliminating targets outside of invading and waging war if that target truly poses a threat to us or the overall good of the world.

No matter the logical and explained rationale for waging war, one thing I think has proven itself.. our presence their isn't "stopping" the wars of the people of the Middle East. It is just getting ourselves involved in something that really isn't our fight or in our interest other than the sources of energy.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#14

All I can say is that I'm damn glad I don't need to make the decisions about Afghanistan.

Originally Posted by: Porforis

If the Soviets couldn't subdue Afghanistan in 15 years, what makes us think we could do any better? Actually, as my history-major friend likes to point out, no nation has ever successfully subdued the tribes of Afghanistan. Not the United States, not the USSR, not Great Britain, not even Alexander the Great. For some reason, the world never learns.

Porforis
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#15

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel

See, now I want to try. Now, when I get my orbital death laser, I know who my first target will be.

vegOmatic
Registered

14 years ago

#16

And where are all the liberal dickheads that were crying "unjust war!" when Bush was in office? It seems like they disappeared when Obama took office. Weird.

Originally Posted by: IronMan

They're too busy printing up BOMB LIBYA bumper sticker for their hybrids. 😛

blank

Rockmolder
Honored Member

14 years ago

#17

And where are all the liberal dickheads that were crying "unjust war!" when Bush was in office? It seems like they disappeared when Obama took office. Weird.

Originally Posted by: IronMan

You have to think that there's a slim difference between invading the country under shoddy reasoning and abrubtly pulling out of the shithole we/you created.

And, of course, the stakes got a little higher a while ago. Greed is one hell of a motivator.

A bit old, but still, it's Jon Stewart...

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-15-2010/ore-on-terror

zombieslayer
Registered

14 years ago

#18

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel

Adding to this, it was the war in Afghanistan that brought down the Soviet Union's economy. Of all the ironies...

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

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