Frost is gone, but has the damage already been done?· Page 2

Pack93z
Select Member

16 years ago

yes, and naming a scape goat means not taking accountability for you portion of the problem.

"bozz_2006" wrote:

Ahhh.. your talking from an inside perspective.. excellent.

A small part of me thinks that the media hammering away and MM and Ted on this topic here.. will reap some production in the future...

Ted didn't look real comfortable under the grill.. hopefully.. we won't let issues like this linger in the future.. don't become knee jerkers either, but not proud past the decision point either.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Packnic
Registered

16 years ago

#12

In my opinion... the very thing you guys keep calling for is what got us in this position in the first place.

Ryan wasn't grading out as well as we had expected to in year 3. He kept repeating mistakes that the coaching staff wanted him to fix (even though his on the field performance was at least average). The coaching staff decided that Jon Ryan wasn't doing his job and that they would bring someone in that could. So they bring in Frost and he showed in the first game what the coaching staff was thinking. It looked like a great move. Soon after that his performance started slipping despite good practices. I mean you have to give a player more than 4 or 5 games before deciding that he needs to be replaced...especially when he performs well in practice. Otherwise you would end up cutting your whole team after bad games. Frost deserved to be cut... but you can't really complain that this team needs to get better through subtraction when thats the very thing they tried. it just didnt work out.

I like Greg think you guys are looking too deep into this. It's been a tough year with a bunch of adversity and our guys have come out on the losing end 7 times so far. Shit happens. If you want to fire Mike Stock, fine... he made a move that didn't turn out right and his special teamers seem to have regressed. But let it end there... we aren't that far away from being a really good football team, and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

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Pack93z
Select Member

16 years ago

#13

Packnic... I would agree if one principle would have been adhered to in the replacement of Ryan.

Actually bringing Frost in and having him beat out Ryan, instead of cutting Ryan without putting Frost so much as though a work out and maybe a game setting.

But alas.. we are doing that again as well..

But as far as looking too deep.. isn't this the same team that has the same issues year three along the offensive line?

We have issues that need attention.. to this point, this staff, mostly MM hasn't addressed the root problems.. which is basically holding players accountable for their play.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

bozz_2006
Registered

16 years ago

#14

i see what you're saying Packnic, but which fans were calling for Jon Ryan to be released? nobody i can think of. most members of the ph.com were pretty upset about his release. i was quiet, because i trusted that our GM would have made the right choice. he obviously didn't, and he's cut ties before it gets worse.

dfosterf
Veteran Member

16 years ago

#15

"pack93z" wrote:

Ya, I want to bitch about that. Throw the defensive line into the mix, as well. As a matter of fact, I have an excellent idea for an argument. I can't decide which line I want to bitch about more...going into last week I THINK I would have bitched more about the offensive line, but thanks to that putrid performance last week, the defensive line has proven to me that while I didn't think it possible...they actually managed to suck worse than the offensive line, so I'm confused, now.

Packnic
Registered

16 years ago

#16

Packnic... I would agree if one principle would have been adhered to in the replacement of Ryan.

Actually bringing Frost in and having him beat out Ryan, instead of cutting Ryan without putting Frost so much as though a work out and maybe a game setting.

But alas.. we are doing that again as well..

But as far as looking too deep.. isn't this the same team that has the same issues year three along the offensive line?

We have issues that need attention.. to this point, this staff, mostly Mike McCarthy hasn't addressed the root problems.. which is basically holding players accountable for their play.

"pack93z" wrote:

I too think there should have been a competition... like i said i think Mike Stock got a little too cute in his player evaluations. broke away from what made us a solid team (competition) and it bit us.

and i absolutely think this team has issues that have been allowed to develop into problems especially on the lines. Im not saying it shouldnt be corrected or left alone... i just don't know what you want to do about it right now. cutting people sounds good... but its not like some Pro Bowl guard is sitting at home right now waiting for a phone call. my main point is that you don't always know what you have immediately. Pro Bowlers arent made overnight ya know what i mean. Example... Colledge. kid has been up and down like crazy but lately has been stringing together pretty good performances. I think its just the circumstances surrounding this year rather than Mike McCarthy not doing his job.

bozz you are right that no one was calling for Jon Ryans job but he wasn't exactly the MVP either. and i don't want to come close to defending the Frost experiment so ill just leave it alone but to say... I can semi understand what the FO was thinking in the move. It just backfired.

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IronMan
Veteran Member Topic Starter

16 years ago

#17

I mean you have to give a player more than 4 or 5 games before deciding that he needs to be replaced...especially when he performs well in practice.

"Packnic" wrote:

Four games ok. But eleven?

Ryan wasn't grading out as well as we had expected to in year 3.

"Packnic" wrote:

His net average last year of 37.6 was the best by a Packers punter in 38 years.

bozz_2006
Registered

16 years ago

#18

dfosterf is a bad man!

Pack93z
Select Member

16 years ago

#19

and i absolutely think this team has issues that have been allowed to develop into problems especially on the lines. Im not saying it shouldnt be corrected or left alone... i just don't know what you want to do about it right now. cutting people sounds good... but its not like some Pro Bowl guard is sitting at home right now waiting for a phone call. my main point is that you don't always know what you have immediately. Pro Bowlers arent made overnight ya know what i mean. Example... Colledge. kid has been up and down like crazy but lately has been stringing together pretty good performances. I think its just the circumstances surrounding this year rather than Mike McCarthy not doing his job.

"Packnic" wrote:

I think the natural progression would be, first sit their asses if they can't go a entire game without committing at least one mental error penalty a game.

Second.. if they can't get their fundamentals down weekly.. sit there ass and put a maybe less talented player in there.. but one that is focused.

If they don't respond to that.. then either the coaching staff can't get it done or the player.. one of the two has to go.

Of course, cutting a coach midseason is extreme, but we need to find the root of the problem this off season and clip it.. end of story.. not another year of ignoring the problem.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Packnic
Registered

16 years ago

#20

I mean you have to give a player more than 4 or 5 games before deciding that he needs to be replaced...especially when he performs well in practice.

"IronMan" wrote:

Four games ok. But eleven?

Ryan wasn't grading out as well as we had expected to in year 3.

"Packnic" wrote:

His net average last year of 37.6 was the best by a Packers punter in 38 years.

"Packnic" wrote:

again I am not defending Frost. glad to see him gone. but when you say 11 games it seems to imply that he was god awful in 11 straight games which just wasn't the case. and especially when we know he CAN do it. his first game against the Vikings was better than any game Jon Ryan had here that I can remember. and he apparently practiced well. (which if you ask me Mike might need to reevaluate what he considers good practice)

but anyway there really is no arguing your points... he sucked for sure. I can just see what the staff was thinking when it went down. At least it happened in a year where the team has been down/unlucky in other areas as well. Maybe we can cram all of our bad karma into this year and reap the benefits for a few straight years?

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