PackFanWithTwins
12 years ago
Standardized testing, itself is not racist. But I am not sure they are designed the way they should be. I believe testing should be done at least every 2 years 6th grade on.

My kids school, once in middle school, starts two separate learning tracks, Advanced and normal. The main difference is how advanced they two tracks get in Math and Science. You can't test both groups the same at the end when they are not taught the same. The testing should account for this. If a kid is not taught Calc, or Trig, they should not be tested on it.

And testing results should be looked at it like they were for advancing when I was in the Navy. 150 questions, throw out the 25 more answered wrong and 25 most answered correct and score on the remaining 100.


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Porforis
12 years ago

Standardized testing, itself is not racist. But I am not sure they are designed the way they should be. I believe testing should be done at least every 2 years 6th grade on.

My kids school, once in middle school, starts two separate learning tracks, Advanced and normal. The main difference is how advanced they two tracks get in Math and Science. You can't test both groups the same at the end when they are not taught the same. The testing should account for this. If a kid is not taught Calc, or Trig, they should not be tested on it.

And testing results should be looked at it like they were for advancing when I was in the Navy. 150 questions, throw out the 25 more answered wrong and 25 most answered correct and score on the remaining 100.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



I graduated from high school in 2005.

IF I remember correctly, there were standardized tests in 8th and 12th grades. There may have been more but I don't recall them.

As I recall, Algebra I and II and Geometry were the only required math classes for any students. Science, I think was just Biology, "Science", and one elective (Astronomy, Chemistry, various others).

I don't remember much about the science portion of the testing but I remember there being only a few Trig questions on the test. There were a few arithmetic, a bunch of algebra and some geometry. There was no calculus.

Obviously, a lot has changed since then but at least back in the day, the vast, vast majority of the testing for 12th grade students was on things the district required all students to take classes on.

One must also examine what these tests are trying to accomplish. Are they meant as a means of measuring of how well schools are teaching the essentials (required classes and subjects), or is there more emphasis on determining what students are learning?
wpr
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12 years ago
Apparently it is not just Chicago schools. Rockford Register Star .

Nearly 70 percent of Rock River Valley schools failed this year under the federal No Child Left Behind Act and its standards.

The results from the annual standardized tests, released today, are better than last year, when 73 percent of schools failed to reach Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP).

State officials say a new system of measuring progress is in the works, but scores may get worse before they get better because they will be based on national benchmarks, which are more rigorous than Illinois’ standards.

However, they add that students are not getting worse, but increased AYP standards are making it difficult to keep pace.

The expectation this year, according to AYP, is that 85 percent of students meet or exceed learning standards. That bar has steadily risen over the years, and by 2014, the expectation is that 100 percent of students will at least meet standards.

It’s a problem across the state, and it’s getting worse. In 2010, 51 percent of public schools were not making Adequate Yearly Progress. This year, it’s at 66 percent of schools and 82 percent of districts.

State Superintendent Christopher Koch said it’s time for a change in education and a change in how student achievement and growth are measured.

“We believe this is the last year we will be reporting (adequate yearly progress) results,” he said.

No Child Left Behind benchmarks require schools to have more students meeting standards each year. Those benchmarks have outpaced student achievement, meaning that more and more schools, each year, aren’t keeping pace.

Eliminating that measurement — and in turn, the “failing” label — is good news. This year, just 31 percent of schools are keeping pace with standardized test benchmarks.

By this time next year, the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (No Child Left Behind) will be reauthorized, or Illinois will have a waiver, so AYP won’t be measured the way it is today.


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gbguy20
12 years ago
Porforis is right, there is absolutely no advanced math on these tests. It's just the basics.
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zombieslayer
12 years ago

I am old enough. Yes, the NAACP has been, for most of its existence, been a good, useful, and noble organization.

Liberal, yes. But liberal hasn't always been a synonym for moron. Not even the modern "statist" sort of liberal. It's only in the last twenty-five years or so that they've degenerated into their current state.

People like Jack Kennedy, Hubert Humphrey, Gene McCarthy -- they were neither idiots like Pelosi and Biden or cynical manipulators like Reid and Obama. Heck, even Lyndon Johnson, the ultimate in traditional bare-knuckle dealmaking politician of the era, had a kind of liberal oomph that today's liberals lack. Many of their ideas were in hindsight pretty bad ones (IMO) , but these were thoughtful, reasonable men who simply did not have enough empirical evidence of the failure of welfare statism to realize that their ideas of social democracy were bad ones. They were still in an era where the Beveridge recommendations could be seen as the height of innovation for the common good. And they would have been appalled at the people now holding the liberal torch.

I'm not a liberal, not even of the Kennedy/Humphrey/McCarthy sort. I only voted lib in one fed election. (My first, when I voted for Gene McCarthy as a 3rd party candidate after almost killing him on Minnesota highways after picking him up at the Rochester airport.)

I blame Ted Kennedy, Tip O'Neill, Christopher Dodd, and Jesse Jackson for dumbing down liberal thinking. And partly I blame Reagan, because he reduced principled conservatism to "oh shucks" and "there you go again" and did it so successfully that both parties went with superficial populism and know-nothingism. Without them, idiots such as Pelosi and lightweights like Obama, and bad thinkers like Bernanke would never have made it to the national stage.

And of course the Ted Kennedys and Tip O'Neills and Chris Dodds would not have had that influence had the evil ideas of John Dewey and Andrew Carnegie about mass education taken control of the primary/secondary ed system.

But yes, gbguy20, the NAACP was once a respectable organization.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Holy smokes, Wade!

I never expected someone to think that closely to what I thought about liberals and conservatives.

And the NAACP. It's a shame the NAACP is what it is today as it was MUCH needed back then.

I loved JFK, hated what came after (LBJ's good intentions paved the way to Hell and led to the Pelosi's and the Biden's). And yes, I hate Ronald Reagan. I always get into arguments with people who THINK they're conservatives and they love Reagan. I simply tell them - "run the numbers. If you run the numbers, you'll find your hero Reagan is not a conservative and really an uber-liberal of the worst kind." Then they get all butt hurt as I just insulted their God.
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zombieslayer
12 years ago

Porforis is right, there is absolutely no advanced math on these tests. It's just the basics.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20 



My son said the tests were easy.
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Porforis
12 years ago
I heard on WTMJ a month or two back that Wisconsin's scores were pretty pitiful too. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was over 50% failure IIRC.

Despite being a very tech-heavy person, I appreciate growing up in a world where the internet was there, but until later on in high school it wasn't a primary means of communication or information gathering. I had the opportunity to have to research from books and encyclopdias and while it's certainly inefficient nowadays, it's nice having that perspective. I have some concern for the generation that will grow up with computers and smartphones attached to the hip, where texting and IMing is used just as much as face to face conversation and the internet completely replaces books and other physical forms of information. Cheating has got to be incredibly widespread, especially in high schools... And you've got to wonder how in the long term, the human brain will adjust to a world where you're constantly stimulated and amused and if you need to know something, you simply look it up on the internet. Knowledge retention isn't as valued or valuable as it once was, and some of that is going to reflect in testing.
Porforis
12 years ago

My son said the tests were easy.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



They were easy for me too (I think I was in the 95th+ percentile in everything but math and english for the ACTs), but I always tested well (especially with multiple choice). It was more free-form assignments and worksheets that I tended to struggle with. Some people simply do not test well, it's not necessarily indicative of a deficient level of knowledge or intelligence.
gbguy20
12 years ago

My son said the tests were easy.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



They are. The issue with students today is NOT the schools teaching, it is the fact that they don't give enough of a shit to bother learning anything.

The kids who care, do fine on these tests. The rest should just be kicked out and left to fend for themselves.
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zombieslayer
12 years ago

They were easy for me too (I think I was in the 95th+ percentile in everything but math and english for the ACTs), but I always tested well (especially with multiple choice). It was more free-form assignments and worksheets that I tended to struggle with. Some people simply do not test well, it's not necessarily indicative of a deficient level of knowledge or intelligence.

Originally Posted by: Porforis 



Yup. And honestly, straight up intelligence is overrated. Quick story.

I know a guy, let's call him Akmed, who's a fucking idiot. (Pardon my French). People made fun of him all his life for being stupid and his father even calls him stupid in front of his friends. No, not making this up.

He now runs a pool cleaning business. He owns several houses, one in a very expensive neighborhood, and has 10 or 11 employees. He's a paper millionaire.

But he really is dumb. But he sure knows how to apply the little brains he has to real life.

Doing better than I am and I'm actually a Mensa member (don't laugh VR). I made hundreds of thousands in software stock and re-invested into things that completely tanked and lost it all. I got NO common sense and if it wasn't for my wife, I'd be in trouble. I scored 9th grade in Math when I was in 3rd grade. The tests were different than what my son takes today. I don't know what they're called, but they weren't mandatory. They were to see where you placed for your own good, not the government's.

I got several friends in Mensa who are doing much, much worse. One lives in a property that is so bad that the city came in and confiscated their dogs because the property wasn't fit for dogs. Seriously.

But Akmed's doing great. And he's stupid. I mean, really stupid.

The irony of it all, one of his tenants is his father.
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